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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1886969 times)
molecular
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July 19, 2014, 09:54:50 AM
 #9701

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

It's going to have to be forced down there throats, it shakes Mises's regression theorem at the core. At first I couldn't accept it but the earlier linked video sugar coats it and makes it taste nice.

The regression theorem is on shaky feet since bitcoin anyway.

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July 19, 2014, 10:21:28 AM
 #9702

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

It's going to have to be forced down there throats, it shakes Mises's regression theorem at the core. At first I couldn't accept it but the earlier linked video sugar coats it and makes it taste nice.

This changes nothing. A person living in a non-money economy will take something of value when he goes to a merchant to have some painkillers. How do we know this? Because it is going on today. That is barter. It also happens for other reasons, like tax avoidance, and if two persons just happens to both have something of value that they don't need. No mystery.

Gift economies is live and well in stable, tight local communities. It is debt, it is based on trust that you will get something back when you give. People think this is nice; I see some problems: The community has to be exclusive to have this level of trust. There is always a black sheep that is exclueded, also newcomers, and it falls apart when there are turbulent changes in the group. Also the payments are not exact, so some individuals may sacrifice themselves too much, others can get away with very little production (if they are pretty or smiling or lying or somehow can believably hold forth that they are worthy receivers).

Historical seasonal markets based on debt has been envisioned, don't know about hard evidence but it is completely likely. In a money-scarce economy, people meet to trade, and temporarily use a ledger to enable trade, and clear out at the end of the market. Debt based markets using promissary notes is even better and can be used anywhere today, and is used where bank loans are hard to get. Privately issued "credits" are used in local markets all over the place, for example nowadays in Argentina. Denoted in the local government currency, but has normally a lower value. They are usable due to "localism" and "big corporations fucked-us-ism", and possible due to misunderstanding of what money is.

So this is nothing new, and not contrary to austrian money theory. Debt is an extension to money to some degree, the easier transferable the more money-like. The money supply that ultimately decides the prices (together with demand to hold) is the combined supply of money plus debt.
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July 19, 2014, 12:10:14 PM
 #9703

You gotta be impressed. We have eyes everywhere:

SBIRS is a network of four geosynchronous and two elliptically orbiting infrared satellites, and is run by the US Space Command at Los Angeles Air Force Base in California.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25923-us-satellite-may-have-located-ukraine-missile-launch.html#.U8n_Jmlycuo

The US government seems a little too keen to pin the blame on the Russians, but under the circumstances I guess I can see why. What are the odds that Malaysia Airlines loses two 777s in the space of six months and both under suspicious circumstances? Probably just an unpleasant coincidence but I wonder if the Malaysian government has stepped on anyone's toes recently.
If you want conspiracy theories check out which airlines avoided Ukraine and which ones didn't.  I'll save you the suspense.  British Airways and Air France did.  Germanys Lufthansa didn't. 

Air France said it was because it is their usual route to avoid Ukraine

The Malaysian Airline flight used not to take this route and went further north this time; Russia closed routes that the flight was about to take before the flight entered russian airspace

2 B777 of the same company destroyed for external reasons in a few months is a VERY strange coincidence

MH17 the 07/17/2014 (2+1+4=7) cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

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July 19, 2014, 01:38:54 PM
 #9704

2 B777 of the same company destroyed for external reasons in a few months is a VERY strange coincidence

There are thousands of facts everyday. By pure chance, some will seem to align in a pattern the same way you will from time to time get the same number 5 times in a row when rolling a die.

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July 19, 2014, 01:43:48 PM
 #9705

2 B777 of the same company destroyed for external reasons in a few months is a VERY strange coincidence

There are thousands of facts everyday. By pure chance, some will seem to align in a pattern the same way you will from time to time get the same number 5 times in a row when rolling a die.

if you believe the audio intercepts I posted above, it sounds like an accident.
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July 19, 2014, 01:56:12 PM
 #9706

Amnesty, or at least a fair trial, would be a good thing:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/19/edward-snowden-case-amnesty?CMP=twt_gu
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July 19, 2014, 03:50:45 PM
 #9707

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/490513180649865216
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July 19, 2014, 07:17:56 PM
 #9708

From bad to worse

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-armed-rebels-chaos-corpses-ukraine
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July 19, 2014, 09:23:32 PM
 #9709

I know it's just his opinion but ...
 ShockedHuh
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2b5hzy/fred_wilson_clueless_about_bitcoin_implies/

Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
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July 20, 2014, 12:04:44 AM
 #9710


it's a long talk. Do you hv a time where he says these things? See my post last week here where I was criticizing him a bit. He thinks like Andreas that the blockchain is everything.
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July 20, 2014, 12:12:47 AM
 #9711

Going thru reddit thread now. Looks like he was misquoted. But he still entertained idea of raising 21m hard limit.
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July 20, 2014, 12:34:01 AM
 #9712

Going thru reddit thread now. Looks like he was misquoted. But he still entertained idea of raising 21m hard limit.

Maybe he was thinking that mining will go away after the 21M limit is reached. I wonder if they'll change the name from mining to something else? It certainly won't be as sexy as mining. There was an old line about an auditor being like an accountant minus the personality.
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July 20, 2014, 12:37:08 AM
 #9713

Bitcoin has proven an awesome case study in the 'de-regulated' world.  I cannot count the number of times some entity 'built a solid reputation' for just long enough to take their cash-out at an opportune time.  Over and over again we saw (and probably will continue to see) exchanges and wallet services fold and take everyone's money.  Usually the give back a pittance to preserve some plausible deniability.  The ratio of people who have been chumped out of their BTC vs the number of people who ever held any is truly impressive.  Were such a ratio observed in the real world where the stakes are higher it would be an unmitigated disaster.

I'll think I'll frame that and hang it somewhere.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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July 20, 2014, 01:44:32 AM
 #9714

Bitcoin has proven an awesome case study in the 'de-regulated' world.  I cannot count the number of times some entity 'built a solid reputation' for just long enough to take their cash-out at an opportune time.  Over and over again we saw (and probably will continue to see) exchanges and wallet services fold and take everyone's money.  Usually the give back a pittance to preserve some plausible deniability.  The ratio of people who have been chumped out of their BTC vs the number of people who ever held any is truly impressive.  Were such a ratio observed in the real world where the stakes are higher it would be an unmitigated disaster.

I'll think I'll frame that and hang it somewhere.
Why?  The same can be rephrased with almost anything else humans touch.  Cash, drugs, money printing, virginity.
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July 20, 2014, 05:11:57 AM
 #9715

“If this whole feeding frenzy looks unseemly, that’s because it is. Lost in the shuffle is a central idea of our judicial system: Punishing individuals deters future crimes. The lesson banksters can draw from all this is, 'Hey, if we screw up or even break the law, we’ll walk and the shareholders will pay.' ”

http://www.moneynews.com/Personal-Finance/bankers-mislead-investors-Justice-Department/2014/07/18/id/583548/
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July 20, 2014, 05:51:03 AM
 #9716

Careful guys, we now live in a country where selling "untaxed cigarettes" can get you killed.

http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-man-dies-puts-choke-hold-article-1.1871486?utm_content=buffer8e086&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw
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July 20, 2014, 06:25:05 AM
 #9717

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

It's going to have to be forced down there throats, it shakes Mises's regression theorem at the core. At first I couldn't accept it but the earlier linked video sugar coats it and makes it taste nice.

The regression theorem is on shaky feet since bitcoin anyway.

Actually the regression theorem has nothing to do with Bitcoin. The regression theorem is about physical object substitutes for ledger systems, a.k.a. media of exchange. Bitcoin is not a medium of exchange; it obviates (makes unnecessary) the need for media of exchange. Media of exchange are a low-tech hack for doing what Bitcoin does.

Hence the Austrian economists are technically correct when they say that Bitcoin isn't money and that it doesn't satisfy the regression theorem. It isn't money as they define it - that is, it isn't a medium of exchange. Again, it obviates the need for media of exchange. In Austrian parlance, then, it obviates the need for "money."

Money in the Austrian sense is just a stopgag measure to deal with the technical difficulties of maintaining large accounting ledgers. That is a result of their starting definitions, though they may want to revise them now that Bitcoin exists. Bitcoin bypasses the entire Regression Theorem framework. Like someone said, Bitcoin and the Regression Theorem gaze at each other knowingly over a chasm. The one has nothing to say about the other.

The Austrians who haven't come around yet because of the Regression Theorem are simply getting tripped up by their definitions, as well as by the way the Bitcoin has been marketed so far with the focus on "coins" rather than on the ledger.
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July 20, 2014, 07:08:34 AM
 #9718

Careful guys, we now live in a country where selling "untaxed cigarettes" can get you killed.
You just now noticed?

Every law describes a situation that can get you killed, because the ultimate penalty for violating any law, no matter how trivial, is always death.
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July 20, 2014, 10:20:26 AM
 #9719

Careful guys, we now live in a country where selling "untaxed cigarettes" can get you killed.
You just now noticed?

Every law describes a situation that can get you killed, because the ultimate penalty for violating any law, no matter how trivial, is always death.

well, tbh, I've never seen a police officer murder an innocent citizen in broad daylight by jumping him from behind and choking him to death with 6 other officers all on film.
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July 20, 2014, 12:31:11 PM
 #9720

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?
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