Bitcoin Forum
December 03, 2016, 02:34:29 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 [479] 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803411 times)
zeetubes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 371


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 06:53:27 AM
 #9561


Central banks are all tapped out, they cant do any more printing on that kind of scale. The only 'bank' with a clean balance sheet is the IMF. Next time reality bends the financial class over and kicks it in the nuts, the IMF is the only institution that can step in by printing SDR's.

[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the IMF is just an extension of the Fed which is why Russia and China are so pissed off. Their funding is a little opaque but guaranteed most of it comes from printed dollars and euros. They're basically a bunch of thugs.
1480732469
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480732469

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480732469
Reply with quote  #2

1480732469
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480732469
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480732469

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480732469
Reply with quote  #2

1480732469
Report to moderator
1480732469
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480732469

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480732469
Reply with quote  #2

1480732469
Report to moderator
1480732469
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480732469

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480732469
Reply with quote  #2

1480732469
Report to moderator
zeetubes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 371


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 07:08:15 AM
 #9562

Gold went back above $1300 and was spiking until the fed managed to get it back under control. You'll never see any stock acting the way gold does. After $3B+ of short selling over a couple of days, people are still buying. The reason investors buy gold is as a hedge against out of control inflation or because of conflict/war. Thus the vertical spikes followed by an urgent take down. BTC price is currently slightly sagging so investors' perception is not yet equivalent to digital gold.
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2128



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 07:42:55 AM
 #9563

This is one of the catalysts I am looking for to spark a Bitcoin rally like no other:

The next time the world has a financial crisis, Bitcoin will soar to the heavens as central banks around the world print to oblivion.

I'm not sure about this. There could also be enormous pressure to sell assets. Bitcoin could be one of them.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
majamalu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652



View Profile WWW
July 17, 2014, 08:09:15 AM
 #9564

This is one of the catalysts I am looking for to spark a Bitcoin rally like no other:

The next time the world has a financial crisis, Bitcoin will soar to the heavens as central banks around the world print to oblivion.

I'm not sure about this. There could also be enormous pressure to sell assets. Bitcoin could be one of them.

When profitability is scarce and difficult to obtain, capital tend to compete for appreciation opportunities.

Given its properties, and since there are not many people who borrowed in order to buy bitcoins, btc would be seen as one of the goods with greater potential for appreciation.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
okthen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 09:50:59 AM
 #9565

https://twitter.com/EdmundCMoy/status/489185805382868992

"Edmund Moy, 38th Director of the US Mint, just tweeted his first purchase of bitcoin"

Epic. It is catching on like...wild fire coming soon.

Wow! This is really epic, I'd even say symbolic.
A turning of tides, perhaps?
Torque
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 12:21:45 PM
 #9566

This is one of the catalysts I am looking for to spark a Bitcoin rally like no other:

The next time the world has a financial crisis, Bitcoin will soar to the heavens as central banks around the world print to oblivion.

I'm not sure about this. There could also be enormous pressure to sell assets. Bitcoin could be one of them.

I agree, I've pondered both of the possible scenarios (mega btc rally vs. mega btc dump/crash) and either one are equally valid.  Bitcoin would have to establish itself as a SOLID asset deemed better than fiat in the short term for a rally, otherwise a mega market crash would be inevitable.  In a financial crisis, people run to the safest asset in the short term.  That's why stocks get dumped for fiat and gold, even stocks of companies that are solid.

I mean, what would stop a mass public run on liquidating bitcoin for hard cash?  The only thing I could think of is capital controls on bitcoin conversion (especially if by that time, major world financial markets actually depended on Bitcoin to some degree).  Perhaps the world banks wouldn't even have enough fiat to cover all the selling, because there might be a bank run at the same time?  Negative interest rates on bank fiat deposits to deter sellers, perhaps?

I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
FNG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 12:41:07 PM
 #9567


I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
Sure it is. Loss of faith can always cause a massive crash. In a hyper-inflation scenario stocks may rise nominally but they'll definitely crash in real terms. Time will tell but it looks as if the rest of the world is set to pull the trigger and move away from the current dollar centric system..the glut of dollars is sure to flow.
notme
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
 #9568


I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
Sure it is. Loss of faith can always cause a massive crash. In a hyper-inflation scenario stocks may rise nominally but they'll definitely crash in real terms. Time will tell but it looks as if the rest of the world is set to pull the trigger and move away from the current dollar centric system..the glut of dollars is sure to flow.

We're still the largest consumer economy.  I'm not sure the rest of the world is willing to give up their biggest customer.  They are certainly trying to lessen the impact of such a move for when it comes, but I don't think that time has come yet.  The BRICS need a bit more time to strengthen their consumerism.  Their middle classes are rapidly growing, but they are more sensible so it takes 2 middle class Chinese to consume as much as 1 middle class person from the US.  But they have the numbers, so it is only a matter of time.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 12:55:08 PM
 #9569

This is one of the catalysts I am looking for to spark a Bitcoin rally like no other:

The next time the world has a financial crisis, Bitcoin will soar to the heavens as central banks around the world print to oblivion.

Central banks are all tapped out, they cant do any more printing on that kind of scale. The only 'bank' with a clean balance sheet is the IMF. Next time reality bends the financial class over and kicks it in the nuts, the IMF is the only institution that can step in by printing SDR's.

When this happens you're going to see a revaluation of gold, as gold will be included in the new basket of currencies

And to be in an asset that sits outside the regular financial system at that time, decentralised and immune (to an extent), is the place to be and why everyone is so confident in btc.

In that case I'd say it will be Gold UP, Bitcoin WAY UP.

I agree with some what you posted.

I still believe the central banks will inflate to oblivion whether it be on paper or digitally. Revaluation can happen also after a hyperinflation weimar-style as well.

SDR's are no different than any other fiat so it really doesn't matter if it is them or the fed.

I don't think they will inflate ... it has been quite well telegraphed already that they will play the bail-in card, i.e. steal directly from 'wealthy' bank accounts. This evil idea has also been promoted widely and loudly by the IMF mandarins.

Of course, widespread bail-ins happening in the current broken fiat bank system are insanely bullish for hard to seize assets, like bitcoin.

FNG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 12:58:47 PM
 #9570


I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
Sure it is. Loss of faith can always cause a massive crash. In a hyper-inflation scenario stocks may rise nominally but they'll definitely crash in real terms. Time will tell but it looks as if the rest of the world is set to pull the trigger and move away from the current dollar centric system..the glut of dollars is sure to flow.

We're still the largest consumer economy.  I'm not sure the rest of the world is willing to give up their biggest customer.  They are certainly trying to lessen the impact of such a move for when it comes, but I don't think that time has come yet.  The BRICS need a bit more time to strengthen their consumerism.  Their middle classes are rapidly growing, but they are more sensible so it takes 2 middle class Chinese to consume as much as 1 middle class person from the US.  But they have the numbers, so it is only a matter of time.
largest consumer at what expense?  They have to support us by purchasing debt..and not dumping debt for that matter. Our inflation gets exported causing foreign consumers to lose purchasing power. Once they get dollars in hand they struggle to find places to put it because of protectionist policies. So they $'s get recycled in overvalued stocks and real estate.

The $ tax on the globe is sure to end sooner or later..let's see how long they can trick the world into thinking they need us to spend the money they loaned us for their products lol.

Time running short imo.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 01:36:04 PM
 #9571

Projections were for 6000 job cuts, not 18000. That's not good:

http://money.cnn.com/#!/articles/2014/07/17/technology/enterprise/microsoft-job-cuts.json?category=Latest News
Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 01:47:56 PM
 #9572


I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
Sure it is. Loss of faith can always cause a massive crash. In a hyper-inflation scenario stocks may rise nominally but they'll definitely crash in real terms. Time will tell but it looks as if the rest of the world is set to pull the trigger and move away from the current dollar centric system..the glut of dollars is sure to flow.

We're still the largest consumer economy.  I'm not sure the rest of the world is willing to give up their biggest customer.  They are certainly trying to lessen the impact of such a move for when it comes, but I don't think that time has come yet.  The BRICS need a bit more time to strengthen their consumerism.  Their middle classes are rapidly growing, but they are more sensible so it takes 2 middle class Chinese to consume as much as 1 middle class person from the US.  But they have the numbers, so it is only a matter of time.
largest consumer at what expense?  They have to support us by purchasing debt..and not dumping debt for that matter. Our inflation gets exported causing foreign consumers to lose purchasing power. Once they get dollars in hand they struggle to find places to put it because of protectionist policies. So they $'s get recycled in overvalued stocks and real estate.

The $ tax on the globe is sure to end sooner or later..let's see how long they can trick the world into thinking they need us to spend the money they loaned us for their products lol.

Time running short imo.

The funny thing with money supply and inflation, is that there is a connection (supply vs holding preference), but the connection is not direct. In the Weimar republic, they launched Rentenmark, which became stable money, just because they were regarded as stable and sold as stable. Still, the supply of Rentenmark also exploded, just like the other fiat, all while the value held.

The current USD supply has already exploded (we could regard all fiat, at least from the strongest countries, as one currency, as they use reserves and largely the same politics to keep them in tandem). So the supply has exploded, and we have not seen great inflation in prices. One reason is the constant hammering that it is stable. Another is that the new money is far from dispersed among the users. Then there is the wrong assumptions that the value of the money depends on a large economy, innovation, military force and other things that are not relevant. So inflation should be possible, say USD buying force could go down to 20% compared to current, due to money already created. This may take the form of price inflation of 15% per year over some years.

We also have the possibility of a sudden credit clearance, which would reduce the money supply, but this will be painful and the credit loss will be compensated. It looks gloomy, and I think the only sure thing is that we will see violent changes in valuations of money, gold, houses, shares, funds, capital goods, consumer goods, really all kinds of assets.

FNG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:00:58 PM
 #9573


I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
Sure it is. Loss of faith can always cause a massive crash. In a hyper-inflation scenario stocks may rise nominally but they'll definitely crash in real terms. Time will tell but it looks as if the rest of the world is set to pull the trigger and move away from the current dollar centric system..the glut of dollars is sure to flow.

We're still the largest consumer economy.  I'm not sure the rest of the world is willing to give up their biggest customer.  They are certainly trying to lessen the impact of such a move for when it comes, but I don't think that time has come yet.  The BRICS need a bit more time to strengthen their consumerism.  Their middle classes are rapidly growing, but they are more sensible so it takes 2 middle class Chinese to consume as much as 1 middle class person from the US.  But they have the numbers, so it is only a matter of time.
largest consumer at what expense?  They have to support us by purchasing debt..and not dumping debt for that matter. Our inflation gets exported causing foreign consumers to lose purchasing power. Once they get dollars in hand they struggle to find places to put it because of protectionist policies. So they $'s get recycled in overvalued stocks and real estate.

The $ tax on the globe is sure to end sooner or later..let's see how long they can trick the world into thinking they need us to spend the money they loaned us for their products lol.

Time running short imo.

The funny thing with money supply and inflation, is that there is a connection (supply vs holding preference), but the connection is not direct. In the Weimar republic, they launched Rentenmark, which became stable money, just because they were regarded as stable and sold as stable. Still, the supply of Rentenmark also exploded, just like the other fiat, all while the value held.

The current USD supply has already exploded (we could regard all fiat, at least from the strongest countries, as one currency, as they use reserves and largely the same politics to keep them in tandem). So the supply has exploded, and we have not seen great inflation in prices. One reason is the constant hammering that it is stable. Another is that the new money is far from dispersed among the users. Then there is the wrong assumptions that the value of the money depends on a large economy, innovation, military force and other things that are not relevant. So inflation should be possible, say USD buying force could go down to 20% compared to current, due to money already created. This may take the form of price inflation of 15% per year over some years.

We also have the possibility of a sudden credit clearance, which would reduce the money supply, but this will be painful and the credit loss will be compensated. It looks gloomy, and I think the only sure thing is that we will see violent changes in valuations of money, gold, houses, shares, funds, capital goods, consumer goods, really all kinds of assets.

Yup. But the difference with the dollar is that it's value is predominantly determined by overseas holders. It's been massively used as wealth storage / trade outside of U.S borders..not only for oil but as the means to conduct trade between two nations. New trade agreements are being put in place, the $IMF is receiving competition, and Russia is winning the gas pipeline game against the $ supporters.

When enough pieces are in place the $ no longer has the utility it once had / utility that was provided by the barrel of a gun.

The dollar is simply a credit for U.S goods and services so when it's overseas "utility" i.e forced use diminishes the $'s run home and hyperinflation runs rampant. No more money needs to be printed..it simply needs to chase U.S goods
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:24:23 PM
 #9574

Bitlicenses are here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nydfs-bitlicense-draft-2014-7
Torque
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:28:29 PM
 #9575


Eh, not quite.  Just a draft.  Still a 45 day comment period, before regs are finalized.
Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:30:14 PM
 #9576


I'm not sure a hard financial crash would even be possible anymore, now that the world's central banks know that they can just fire up QE and confiscate savings in the short term.
Sure it is. Loss of faith can always cause a massive crash. In a hyper-inflation scenario stocks may rise nominally but they'll definitely crash in real terms. Time will tell but it looks as if the rest of the world is set to pull the trigger and move away from the current dollar centric system..the glut of dollars is sure to flow.

We're still the largest consumer economy.  I'm not sure the rest of the world is willing to give up their biggest customer.  They are certainly trying to lessen the impact of such a move for when it comes, but I don't think that time has come yet.  The BRICS need a bit more time to strengthen their consumerism.  Their middle classes are rapidly growing, but they are more sensible so it takes 2 middle class Chinese to consume as much as 1 middle class person from the US.  But they have the numbers, so it is only a matter of time.
largest consumer at what expense?  They have to support us by purchasing debt..and not dumping debt for that matter. Our inflation gets exported causing foreign consumers to lose purchasing power. Once they get dollars in hand they struggle to find places to put it because of protectionist policies. So they $'s get recycled in overvalued stocks and real estate.

The $ tax on the globe is sure to end sooner or later..let's see how long they can trick the world into thinking they need us to spend the money they loaned us for their products lol.

Time running short imo.

The funny thing with money supply and inflation, is that there is a connection (supply vs holding preference), but the connection is not direct. In the Weimar republic, they launched Rentenmark, which became stable money, just because they were regarded as stable and sold as stable. Still, the supply of Rentenmark also exploded, just like the other fiat, all while the value held.

The current USD supply has already exploded (we could regard all fiat, at least from the strongest countries, as one currency, as they use reserves and largely the same politics to keep them in tandem). So the supply has exploded, and we have not seen great inflation in prices. One reason is the constant hammering that it is stable. Another is that the new money is far from dispersed among the users. Then there is the wrong assumptions that the value of the money depends on a large economy, innovation, military force and other things that are not relevant. So inflation should be possible, say USD buying force could go down to 20% compared to current, due to money already created. This may take the form of price inflation of 15% per year over some years.

We also have the possibility of a sudden credit clearance, which would reduce the money supply, but this will be painful and the credit loss will be compensated. It looks gloomy, and I think the only sure thing is that we will see violent changes in valuations of money, gold, houses, shares, funds, capital goods, consumer goods, really all kinds of assets.

Yup. But the difference with the dollar is that it's value is predominantly determined by overseas holders. It's been massively used as wealth storage / trade outside of U.S borders..not only for oil but as the means to conduct trade between two nations. New trade agreements are being put in place, the $IMF is receiving competition, and Russia is winning the gas pipeline game against the $ supporters.

When enough pieces are in place the $ no longer has the utility it once had / utility that was provided by the barrel of a gun.

The dollar is simply a credit for U.S goods and services so when it's overseas "utility" i.e forced use diminishes the $'s run home and hyperinflation runs rampant. No more money needs to be printed..it simply needs to chase U.S goods

That's true.

A nice takeaway from the Weimar republic, is that the sum of all money, the mark, diminished as new money was printed (due to price inflation). The central bank president Rudolf Havenstein contemplated that the diminishing money supply (issued marks * value of each mark), was not large enough to support a large and effective production like germany's, and he thought that therefore they should inject more. He held talks on how good they were at printing and distributing, at some point printing on only one side to be more effective, and distributing to the edges of the reich with airplanes. The money supply diminished, but the real reason was less and less incentive to hold.

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:37:49 PM
 #9577

the good:

1. The license is not required for merchants or consumers that utilize Virtual Currency solely for the purchase or sale of goods or services
2. Controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency. (Note: This does not refer to virtual currency miners.)


the bad:

Buying and selling Virtual Currency as a customer business (as distinct from personal use)-not good for local traders.

all of the compliance regs surely will drive up costs for MTB firms but they don't seem any different than what current fiat businesses are required to do.
Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:44:43 PM
 #9578

the good:

1. The license is not required for merchants or consumers that utilize Virtual Currency solely for the purchase or sale of goods or services
2. Controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency. (Note: This does not refer to virtual currency miners.)


the bad:

Buying and selling Virtual Currency as a customer business (as distinct from personal use)-not good for local traders.

all of the compliance regs surely will drive up costs for MTB firms but they don't seem any different than what current fiat businesses are required to do.

What about the holders? Clearly, they don't hold solely for the purchase of sale of goods or services. That's a big hmmm...



cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:47:27 PM
 #9579

is the Russell leading?  it's a good bet:

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:57:12 PM
 #9580

the good:

1. The license is not required for merchants or consumers that utilize Virtual Currency solely for the purchase or sale of goods or services
2. Controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency. (Note: This does not refer to virtual currency miners.)


the bad:

Buying and selling Virtual Currency as a customer business (as distinct from personal use)-not good for local traders.

all of the compliance regs surely will drive up costs for MTB firms but they don't seem any different than what current fiat businesses are required to do.

What about the holders? Clearly, they don't hold solely for the purchase of sale of goods or services. That's a big hmmm...





it's pretty clear that this legislation doesn't effect holders.  it's all about money transmitting and catching launderers.
Pages: « 1 ... 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 [479] 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!