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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805825 times)
Zangelbert Bingledack
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July 18, 2014, 05:56:49 PM
 #9661


Indeed, why not accept Bitcoin? It apparently took Dell 15 days to implement. That's a company of 100,000 people. Why the heck not accept Bitcoin?? All the cool kids are doing it, it costs almost nothing, takes very little time, and is basically free money.

Now I'm rather partial to the "dishoard-spending theory," which says that the bulk of purchases using Bitcoin are made for portfolio rebalancing purposes. That is, if like Risto Pietila says people reduce their bitcoin holdings by an average of 17% for every doubling of the BTC price, the lion's share of the consumer spending will come from that 17%.

For example, if the market cap doubles from $8 billion to $16 billion, people will get rid of roughly $1.4 billion worth of bitcoins (because their portfolio is getting bitcoin-heavy), of which some will be spent on purchases - instead of the more roundabout method of selling on exchange, wiring to bank, then paying the merchant with fiat. That's potentially a fair amount of money (cheapair.com has already done $1.5 million in sales)...and then think what a full bubble move to $50-80 billion would do.
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marcus_of_augustus
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July 18, 2014, 05:57:01 PM
 #9662

Well done DELL ... dammit I just went with HP, every DELL I have ever had has performed flawlessly to EOL, with whatever hack linux OS I have thrown at it. I'm gonna go and buy a DELL now just because I can.

NY regulation pontifications just show how irrelevant regulations are to bitcoin ... anyone stop transacting?, anything really change? afaik the network didn't miss a beat, it is all just hot air by impotent guys in suits. All the beating of drums about "engage with the regulators" is more hot air and BS, theatre of the absurd.

Money doesn't need regulations, it just IS ... like ideas

chriswilmer
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July 18, 2014, 06:04:05 PM
 #9663

Bitcoin and the history of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0jCjyrew8

This is my new go-to video.

Money as Memory is an absolutely critical concept to understand, for everything. Even for strategies in dealing with regulators. I'm pretty sick of the "bitcoins are digital tokens" line; it invites all kinds of needless objections and sounds immediately suspect to the slightest skeptic, even otherwise on-point people like the Austrian economists. Bitcoin is a ledger. It isn't a replacement for gold, it's a better system for doing exactly what people originally did and what gold was used to as a low-tech way of doing on a large scale: record who brought value to others within a community. A community that is growing at 10x per year.

What an awesome video. Just posted it on Facebook.

At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 06:15:04 PM
 #9664

Bitcoin and the history of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0jCjyrew8

This is my new go-to video.

Money as Memory is an absolutely critical concept to understand, for everything. Even for strategies in dealing with regulators. I'm pretty sick of the "bitcoins are digital tokens" line; it invites all kinds of needless objections and sounds immediately suspect to the slightest skeptic, even otherwise on-point people like the Austrian economists. Bitcoin is a ledger. It isn't a replacement for gold, it's a better system for doing exactly what people originally did and what gold was used to as a low-tech way of doing on a large scale: record who brought value to others within a community. A community that is growing at 10x per year.

you're dealing in advanced Bitcoin Theory, ZB.  even the most ardent of Bitcoin supporters can't understand this concept; look at all the dissers of this video in the Reddit thread.
Peter R
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July 18, 2014, 06:17:17 PM
 #9665

Bitcoin and the history of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0jCjyrew8

This is my new go-to video.

Money as Memory is an absolutely critical concept to understand, for everything. Even for strategies in dealing with regulators. I'm pretty sick of the "bitcoins are digital tokens" line; it invites all kinds of needless objections and sounds immediately suspect to the slightest skeptic, even otherwise on-point people like the Austrian economists. Bitcoin is a ledger. It isn't a replacement for gold, it's a better system for doing exactly what people originally did and what gold was used to as a low-tech way of doing on a large scale: record who brought value to others within a community. A community that is growing at 10x per year.

What an awesome video. Just posted it on Facebook.

At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)

Chris, we need to launch J Bitcoin soon!

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
chriswilmer
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July 18, 2014, 06:18:53 PM
 #9666

Bitcoin and the history of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0jCjyrew8

This is my new go-to video.

Money as Memory is an absolutely critical concept to understand, for everything. Even for strategies in dealing with regulators. I'm pretty sick of the "bitcoins are digital tokens" line; it invites all kinds of needless objections and sounds immediately suspect to the slightest skeptic, even otherwise on-point people like the Austrian economists. Bitcoin is a ledger. It isn't a replacement for gold, it's a better system for doing exactly what people originally did and what gold was used to as a low-tech way of doing on a large scale: record who brought value to others within a community. A community that is growing at 10x per year.

What an awesome video. Just posted it on Facebook.

At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)

Chris, we need to launch J Bitcoin soon!

I just finished a postdoc at Harvard... and a Bitcoin book project... so maybe now is a good moment to again bite off more than I can chew...

(sending you a PM)
Zangelbert Bingledack
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July 18, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
 #9667

At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)

Mark Twain nailed this one: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Hayek phrased the problem more more succinctly as "the pretense of knowledge."

It's also the same reason people often lose their car keys: they know for sure they already looked somewhere that they actually haven't yet.

Money experts will be the last to come on board, because they think they already know what money is.
chriswilmer
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July 18, 2014, 06:22:01 PM
 #9668

At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)

Mark Twain nailed this one: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Hayek phrased the problem more more succinctly as "the pretense of knowledge."

It's also the same reason people often lose their car keys: they know for sure they already looked somewhere that they actually haven't yet.

Money experts will be the last to come on board, because they think they already know what money is.

+1
Zangelbert Bingledack
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July 18, 2014, 06:29:51 PM
 #9669

you're dealing in advanced Bitcoin Theory, ZB.  even the most ardent of Bitcoin supporters can't understand this concept; look at all the dissers of this video in the Reddit thread.

Unfortunately. But I don't think it's actually advanced theory, just conceptual clarity.

It looks advanced only because of the fallout from the early marketing of bitcoins as "digital coins you can send thru the Internet." I'm confident that with enough debate people will come to see how important it is to start with a solid understanding, rather than start with "digital coins" and have to patch it up with a bunch of addenda about how it can't be forged, why "intrinsic value" is an incoherent concept, why it doesn't need "backing," etc. That path, ironically, takes way more advanced explanations to convince people.

The ledger concept is really pretty easy and intuitive: who hasn't had the experience of keeping track of who did the dishes (or swept the floor or bought dinner or drove someone to the airport) in a sort of subjective ledger, as Wences Casares calls it. It's a very natural and completely familiar concept - albeit a nameless one. It's just that things like gold, which is just this weird physical hack for dealing with the technical difficulties in maintaining the ledger in the age before Bitcoin, get in the way.

I think that each extra minute of time invested upfront, taking it back to basics on what money is in terms of that familiar ledger concept, saves a thousand minutes of answering objections and endless misunderstandings later on.
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 06:30:35 PM
 #9670

if true, this could be explosive:

"Florida Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson accused former National Security Agency director Gen. Keith Alexander Wednesday of disclosing classified information to bank trade groups for monthly fees of up to $1,000,000."


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/26/congressman-accuses-ex-nsa-head-of-trading-secrets-for-profit/#ixzz37qWkQFaK
http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/26/congressman-accuses-ex-nsa-head-of-trading-secrets-for-profit/
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 06:33:38 PM
 #9671

In his inquiry into Alexander’s post-NSA activities, Grayson cited security expert Bruce Schneier, who was the first to speculate Alexander’s steep fee included intelligence secrets.

“Think of how much actual security they could buy with that $600K a month,” Schneier wrote in a Tuesday blog post. “Unless he’s giving them classified information.”




Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/26/congressman-accuses-ex-nsa-head-of-trading-secrets-for-profit/#ixzz37qYGATSf

Adrian-x
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July 18, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
 #9672

you're dealing in advanced Bitcoin Theory, ZB.  even the most ardent of Bitcoin supporters can't understand this concept; look at all the dissers of this video in the Reddit thread.

Unfortunately. But I don't think it's actually advanced theory, just conceptual clarity.

It looks advanced only because of the fallout from the early marketing of bitcoins as "digital coins you can send thru the Internet." I'm confident that with enough debate people will come to see how important it is to start with a solid understanding, rather than start with "digital coins" and have to patch it up with a bunch of addenda about how it can't be forged, why "intrinsic value" is an incoherent concept, why it doesn't need "backing," etc. That path, ironically, takes way more advanced explanations to convince people.

The ledger concept is really pretty easy and intuitive: who hasn't had the experience of keeping track of who did the dishes (or swept the floor or bought dinner or drove someone to the airport) in a sort of subjective ledger, as Wences Casares calls it. It's a very natural and completely familiar concept - albeit a nameless one. It's just that things like gold, which is just this weird physical hack for dealing with the technical difficulties in maintaining the ledger in the age before Bitcoin, get in the way.

I think that each extra minute of time invested upfront, taking it back to basics on what money is in terms of that familiar ledger concept, saves a thousand minutes of answering objections and endless misunderstandings later on.

Bang on love this approach.
Also given the pending financial fallout and the simple explanation that will follow,
 “money is the root of all evil”, can easily be understood as true when one thinking of money as a thing to be obtained at any cost.

But it’s the opposite that has social value; it’s the universal ledger that is fair and an opportunity to contribute knowing in exchange one will receive benefits that come from cooperation. The whole that is bigger than the sum of its parts.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 06:48:53 PM
 #9673

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/490206246847258624
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 06:59:54 PM
 #9674

the disruption continues. target: publishers

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/18/media/amazon-kindle-unlimited/index.html
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 07:03:25 PM
 #9675

I'm scared!
zeetubes
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July 18, 2014, 07:16:52 PM
 #9676

"At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)"

It probably pisses the academics off that even though bitcoin is based on some really complex math and technology, at a higher level, it brings back the concept of money (and gasp, economics) to very simple rules and concepts. And hence undermines economists' attempts to make it more seem complex than it really is.
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2014, 07:25:21 PM
 #9677

"At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)"

It probably pisses the academics off that even though bitcoin is based on some really complex math and technology, at a higher level, it brings back the concept of money (and gasp, economics) to very simple rules and concepts. And hence undermines economists' attempts to make it more seem complex than it really is.

when you have a predictable money supply, not dependent on corrupt human intervention, one can reason their way through what were previously deemed complex economic concepts.  this is why logical, mathematically inclined ppl early on in Bitcoin's history were able to identify the key tenets behind what it represents.  if you were willing to take a risk, this has paid off enormously.
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July 18, 2014, 07:31:14 PM
 #9678

I was expecting gold to get taken down below $1300 before the close but it's around $1311 at this point. Silver is nudging $21. Bitcoin has some nice momentum.
justusranvier
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July 18, 2014, 07:42:31 PM
 #9679

everyone needs to read the NYDFS document carefully, formulate your own opinions, and submit any concerns or change proposals to Lawsky as soon as possible.  NY is an important and pivotal test case concerning regulation:

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf
I can't muster much more than a "meh" reaction to the document.

I actually hope some of the worse provisions, like forcing licenced companies to hold their profits and retained earnings in USD, stay in, because when Bitcoin instantly routes around that requirements the lulz will be epic.

If that provision survives the review process, I'll write a "Tax Avoidance for Dummies" article to explain exactly how to bypass it for the benefit of any Bitcoin company owner who might be deficient in imagination.
Adrian-x
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July 18, 2014, 07:45:31 PM
 #9680

"At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)"

It probably pisses the academics off that even though bitcoin is based on some really complex math and technology, at a higher level, it brings back the concept of money (and gasp, economics) to very simple rules and concepts. And hence undermines economists' attempts to make it more seem complex than it really is.

when you have a predictable money supply, not dependent on corrupt human intervention, one can reason their way through what were previously deemed complex economic concepts.  this is why logical, mathematically inclined ppl early on in Bitcoin's history were able to identify the key tenets behind what it represents.  if you were willing to take a risk, this has paid off enormously.

and even gold bugs have benefited (sold more gold) from the bitcoin boom.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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