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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806228 times)
justusranvier
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July 20, 2014, 12:35:21 PM
 #9721

well, tbh, I've never seen a police officer murder an innocent citizen in broad daylight by jumping him from behind and choking him to death with 6 other officers all on film.
True, they are usually more subtle about it.
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tabnloz
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July 20, 2014, 02:29:02 PM
 #9722

Bitcoin has proven an awesome case study in the 'de-regulated' world.  I cannot count the number of times some entity 'built a solid reputation' for just long enough to take their cash-out at an opportune time.  Over and over again we saw (and probably will continue to see) exchanges and wallet services fold and take everyone's money.  Usually the give back a pittance to preserve some plausible deniability.  The ratio of people who have been chumped out of their BTC vs the number of people who ever held any is truly impressive.  Were such a ratio observed in the real world where the stakes are higher it would be an unmitigated disaster.

I'll think I'll frame that and hang it somewhere.
Why?  The same can be rephrased with almost anything else humans touch.  Cash, drugs, money printing, virginity.

Here is the difference.

Regulated world: Hardworking taxpayers pay for everyone's mistakes. It has gotten to the point where there is actually incentive to make "mistakes"!

De-regulated world: The people making the mistakes pay for their mistakes. There is a very strong incentive to avoid making mistakes.

Most people were born into the first kind of world. When they are faced with the second, many fail to properly protect themselves. They jump before they realize that the safety net those nice people were maintaining is missing. Change takes time and sometimes it comes with a bitter pill. I prefer a world where personal responsibility is a priority. People should think before they jump.

This is a good point; us humans are adaptable.

In a roundabout kind of way, the hackers, scammers, thieves etc are improving bitcoin. They do their misdeeds and the community begins to espouse an antidote and evolve. This is because anyone with a stake in bitcoin has a reason for it to succeed and so it is in our best interests to continue to improve the system. We've gone from web wallets and private key holding exchanges to paper wallets, holding your private keys, exchange audits and multi sig. Soon, it will evolve again; fingers crossed in the meantime we all keep our coins safe. Smiley)
Carlton Banks
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July 20, 2014, 03:06:45 PM
 #9723

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Vires in numeris
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
 #9724

Calls for Bitcoin's imminent death are being sounded again. Little do these ppl appreciate that Bitcoin was designed for this. It's a silver bullet aimed at Wall St and if they resist, NY will be routed around.

http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/bitcoin-regulations-drafted-in-new-york-will-make-bitcoin-boring
FUR11
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July 20, 2014, 05:34:25 PM
 #9725

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 05:35:19 PM
 #9726

https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/490897753157795841
tabnloz
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July 20, 2014, 06:12:31 PM
 #9727

From

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/10978178/The-dollars-70-year-dominance-is-coming-to-an-end.html

Within a decade or so, a “reserve currency basket” may emerge, with central banks storing wealth in a mix of dollars, yuan, rupee, reals and roubles, as well as precious metals. Perhaps some kind of synthetic bundle of the world’s leading currencies will be developed, with emphasis placed, after years of western money-printing, on assets backed by commodities and other tangibles.

I also believe central banks may include cyber-currencies (such as bitcoin) in their reserves. If you think that’s mad, consider that mankind has long sought scarcity – be it with shells, stones or metallic elements – to store wealth. Now the money-printing taboo has been broken by yet another generation, it makes sense to use complex computer algorithms to ensure that only a certain amount of a particular currency unit can ever exist.
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July 20, 2014, 07:00:59 PM
 #9728

From

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/10978178/The-dollars-70-year-dominance-is-coming-to-an-end.html

Within a decade or so, a “reserve currency basket” may emerge, with central banks storing wealth in a mix of dollars, yuan, rupee, reals and roubles, as well as precious metals. Perhaps some kind of synthetic bundle of the world’s leading currencies will be developed, with emphasis placed, after years of western money-printing, on assets backed by commodities and other tangibles.

I also believe central banks may include cyber-currencies (such as bitcoin) in their reserves. If you think that’s mad, consider that mankind has long sought scarcity – be it with shells, stones or metallic elements – to store wealth. Now the money-printing taboo has been broken by yet another generation, it makes sense to use complex computer algorithms to ensure that only a certain amount of a particular currency unit can ever exist.


great find
Erdogan
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July 20, 2014, 07:08:50 PM
 #9729

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.
Carlton Banks
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July 20, 2014, 07:29:18 PM
 #9730

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


When the time comes for the fiat world to end, gold may be doing badly. I have a feeling that Bitcoin will end up as the popular scapegoat for the death of fiat, even though the minority will know that the game was over in 1971. Bitcoin will gradually smother fiat, slowly at first, then quickly (as in the famous Newton quote). The incentives all point in that direction, I think we all know the time for this idea has truly arrived. All the people holding gold will begin to dump it for Bitcoin as quietly as they can, with a probable likelihood that there's slightly more gold hidden in vaults than has been accounted for.

I'm pretty much in the cypherdoc camp on gold, the "gold is money" thing is stretching the truth a little bit. No-one accepts gold as payment just about anywhere (unless you're an Afghan druglord or an Iranian oil baron). Bitcoin is seriously rivalling gold in the area of money status; for instance, there are several places you can buy gold with bitcoin, but nowhere to buy Bitcoin with gold.

Unless you meant Uncle Phil's gold of course, which is a family secret, naturally.  Cool

Vires in numeris
Erdogan
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July 20, 2014, 07:57:04 PM
 #9731

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


When the time comes for the fiat world to end, gold may be doing badly. I have a feeling that Bitcoin will end up as the popular scapegoat for the death of fiat, even though the minority will know that the game was over in 1971. Bitcoin will gradually smother fiat, slowly at first, then quickly (as in the famous Newton quote). The incentives all point in that direction, I think we all know the time for this idea has truly arrived. All the people holding gold will begin to dump it for Bitcoin as quietly as they can, with a probable likelihood that there's slightly more gold hidden in vaults than has been accounted for.

I'm pretty much in the cypherdoc camp on gold, the "gold is money" thing is stretching the truth a little bit. No-one accepts gold as payment just about anywhere (unless you're an Afghan druglord or an Iranian oil baron). Bitcoin is seriously rivalling gold in the area of money status; for instance, there are several places you can buy gold with bitcoin, but nowhere to buy Bitcoin with gold.

Unless you meant Uncle Phil's gold of course, which is a family secret, naturally.  Cool

You are probably right, but gold has a long history, so i think there will be some exchange value in gold for many years.
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 07:59:36 PM
 #9732

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


isn't that the entire problem?
Erdogan
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July 20, 2014, 08:07:10 PM
 #9733

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


isn't that the entire problem?

Nah, I think money can work even if the amount is not known. Same with bitcoins. We will never know how much is saved for the long time (decennia) or how many are lost. As long as the money are sound.
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 08:12:47 PM
 #9734

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


isn't that the entire problem?

Nah, I think money can work even if the amount is not known. Same with bitcoins. We will never know how much is saved for the long time (decennia) or how many are lost. As long as the money are sound.


But one money will be more sound than all others, and that is Bitcoin. If anything its supply will only go down whereas with gold you have at least 2% inflation from mining. Plus all the tungsten related counterfeits.
Erdogan
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July 20, 2014, 08:17:46 PM
 #9735

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


isn't that the entire problem?

Nah, I think money can work even if the amount is not known. Same with bitcoins. We will never know how much is saved for the long time (decennia) or how many are lost. As long as the money are sound.


But one money will be more sound than all others, and that is Bitcoin. If anything its supply will only go down whereas with gold you have at least 2% inflation from mining. Plus all the tungsten related counterfeits.

I agree. Bitcoin is the soundest. But gold is also sound, the reason is that the supply is not controlled by governments.
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 08:23:32 PM
 #9736

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


isn't that the entire problem?

Nah, I think money can work even if the amount is not known. Same with bitcoins. We will never know how much is saved for the long time (decennia) or how many are lost. As long as the money are sound.


But one money will be more sound than all others, and that is Bitcoin. If anything its supply will only go down whereas with gold you have at least 2% inflation from mining. Plus all the tungsten related counterfeits.

I agree. Bitcoin is the soundest. But gold is also sound, the reason is that the supply is not controlled by governments.


depends on how you look at it.

Because anyone with large supplies has to store it at centralized locations, true supply can never be known or verified and therefore is subject to govt manipulation via gold derivatives or GLD. This is a problem gold bugs won't acknowledge.
Erdogan
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July 20, 2014, 08:26:34 PM
 #9737

I would like to know how much gold is in private hands, for different countries. Is this known and published somewhere?


"Published" and "known" are slippery concepts when applied to gold holdings. No-one wants to tell the whole truth, and for good reasons (well, self interested reasons, namely to make any true spot price very difficult to determine)

Ha Carlton, I bet you still got some gold bars back at uncle Phil's house up in the attic or somewhere! Cheesy
But yeah, it'd be interesting to know how the gold is distributed among the different status-groups of investors/companies/crime/states/etc...

I guess we will never know.


isn't that the entire problem?

Nah, I think money can work even if the amount is not known. Same with bitcoins. We will never know how much is saved for the long time (decennia) or how many are lost. As long as the money are sound.


But one money will be more sound than all others, and that is Bitcoin. If anything its supply will only go down whereas with gold you have at least 2% inflation from mining. Plus all the tungsten related counterfeits.

I agree. Bitcoin is the soundest. But gold is also sound, the reason is that the supply is not controlled by governments.


depends on how you look at it.

Because anyone with large supplies has to store it at centralized locations, true supply can never be known or verified and therefore is subject to govt manipulation via gold derivatives or GLD. This is a problem gold bugs won't acknowledge.

I agree to that. In principle, bitcoin extensions can also be created, but yes, I hold bitcoins, not gold (not much).
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 10:08:41 PM
 #9738

my last 3 posts, i talk about the "speculative mind" of markets:

http://www.reddit.com/user/cypherdoc2/
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July 20, 2014, 10:45:07 PM
 #9739

"Because anyone with large supplies has to store it at centralized locations, true supply can never be known or verified and therefore is subject to govt manipulation via gold derivatives or GLD. This is a problem gold bugs won't acknowledge. "

I think the problem of manipulation is acknowledged by gold bugs - take a look at any ZH comments thread - but the mainstream analysts (true of any market and not just gold) mainly ignore or deny it because their funding comes from analyzing the market trends and fundamentals, which in this day and age is pure BS. Once the various funds and other investment vehicles roll out in force in the bitcoin sphere, BTC may also suffer from the same fate and I'm sure there is some tweaking going on even now, especially in terms of FUD spread by various vested interests. But for now, BTC still feels like the closest thing we have to a market price primarily set by supply and demand.
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2014, 10:59:04 PM
 #9740

"Because anyone with large supplies has to store it at centralized locations, true supply can never be known or verified and therefore is subject to govt manipulation via gold derivatives or GLD. This is a problem gold bugs won't acknowledge. "

I think the problem of manipulation is acknowledged by gold bugs - take a look at any ZH comments thread - but the mainstream analysts (true of any market and not just gold) mainly ignore or deny it because their funding comes from analyzing the market trends and fundamentals, which in this day and age is pure BS. Once the various funds and other investment vehicles roll out in force in the bitcoin sphere, BTC may also suffer from the same fate and I'm sure there is some tweaking going on even now, especially in terms of FUD spread by various vested interests. But for now, BTC still feels like the closest thing we have to a market price primarily set by supply and demand.

yeah, I probably should have said that the gold bugs know it and complain about it all the time but fail to realize that Bitcoin is gold's Black Swan in that it performs all the functions of gold and more.

This whole dynamic interplay btwn the 2 is so fundamental and important to Bitcoins future success which is why I posted this thread in the first place, not to troll like I presented to tvbcof.

Ah, maybe for a little trolling.
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