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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805159 times)
cypherdoc
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July 28, 2014, 04:49:34 PM
 #9921

Bitcoin skepticism is high, according to the latest quarterly poll of 562 investors, analysts and traders who are Bloomberg subscribers. Fifty-five percent said the virtual currency trades at unsustainable, bubble-like prices, and 14 percent said it’s on the verge of a bubble. Six percent said a bubble isn’t forming, and 25 percent were unsure. The poll didn’t measure any investor skepticism of gold.

this is good.  it's called climbing the Wall of Worry.  we are clearly not in a bubble.

“Gold has always been seen as the ultimate store of value, and bitcoin is seen as the ultimate modern medium of exchange,” said Simon Hamblin, the London-based CEO of Netagio Ltd., which operates an online exchange for trading among gold, bitcoins and British pounds.

they also don't get it:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-28/gold-bugs-meet-bitcoin-believers-to-supplant-the-dollar.html
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cypherdoc
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July 28, 2014, 04:59:42 PM
 #9922

threatening 1300 again:

rocks
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July 28, 2014, 05:01:17 PM
 #9923

First time i've listened to this.  Stripe is looking at the same endgame i've been advocating since the beginning.  

he's essentially saying that Bitcoin will act as a world reserve currency at the lower layer that can uniquely extend across borders to accomplish settlement btwn nations.  the in country "gateways", as he calls them, will allow the interface btwn Bitcoin and fiat currency.  customers of those gateways will continue to transact in fiat and trusted entities will arise to help guarantee customer tx's.  in other words, pretty much the same system we have today except with a trustless immutable protocol layer that ties everything together, ie, a Bitcoin Standard.  have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZwl7mukZ8

In many ways this is the same as the original gold standard. Fiat was backed by real money at a 1:1 ratio, but people transacted in paper because that was easier.

The eventual problem was the government was able to break convertability. For a very long time anyone could walk into a bank with fiat and walk out with a fixed amount of gold, coupled with most people viewing gold as real money. However during a crisis government was able to stop convertability,  devalue the fixed exchange rate and ban private possession of gold in one action. This ability to break convertability was the failure of the gold standard.

The ultimate advantage for bitcoin is governments can not stop convertability and it is relatively easy for individuals to hold and transact in bitcoin. IMHO this is a key advantage for bitcoin over gold, bitcoin will force governments to be honest for the first time in a long time.
cypherdoc
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July 28, 2014, 05:03:25 PM
 #9924

In an overview of the subject, the institute points out that there are an average of 40,000-80,000 bitcoin transactions per day, adding that the volume is “expected to rise exponentially” as the currency gains acceptance.

Swift is starting to come around.  the writing is on the wall:

SWIFT Institute Offers €15,000 for Bitcoin Research Project

http://www.coindesk.com/swift-institute-offers-e15000-bitcoin-research-project/
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July 28, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
 #9925

The ultimate advantage for bitcoin is governments can not stop convertability and it is relatively easy for individuals to hold and transact in bitcoin.
Do not doubt for a moment they won't try.

I can see the IRS being used to harass anybody who dares to withdraw actual bitcoins from these off chain trading platforms like Coinbase or Circle. Have you moved the coins since you withdrew them? That's a taxable event unless you can prove otherwise. Audits all around for everybody who asks for their coins.

If they can make it easier to keep your coins in an off chain system that allows for fractional reserve, and harass and punish anyone who tries to leave the system, they can play all the same games as they've successfully played with gold.
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July 28, 2014, 05:13:03 PM
 #9926

First time i've listened to this.  Stripe is looking at the same endgame i've been advocating since the beginning.  

he's essentially saying that Bitcoin will act as a world reserve currency at the lower layer that can uniquely extend across borders to accomplish settlement btwn nations.  the in country "gateways", as he calls them, will allow the interface btwn Bitcoin and fiat currency.  customers of those gateways will continue to transact in fiat and trusted entities will arise to help guarantee customer tx's.  in other words, pretty much the same system we have today except with a trustless immutable protocol layer that ties everything together, ie, a Bitcoin Standard.  have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZwl7mukZ8

In many ways this is the same as the original gold standard. Fiat was backed by real money at a 1:1 ratio, but people transacted in paper because that was easier.

The eventual problem was the government was able to break convertability. For a very long time anyone could walk into a bank with fiat and walk out with a fixed amount of gold, coupled with most people viewing gold as real money. However during a crisis government was able to stop convertability,  devalue the fixed exchange rate and ban private possession of gold in one action. This ability to break convertability was the failure of the gold standard.

The ultimate advantage for bitcoin is governments can not stop convertability and it is relatively easy for individuals to hold and transact in bitcoin. IMHO this is a key advantage for bitcoin over gold, bitcoin will force governments to be honest for the first time in a long time.

yes, and the beauty of implementing a system like this is that it's well understood and experienced.  in fact, we still have a significant % of major economic players who remember acting within the gold std system back in 1971. 

in addition, it should be relatively simple from a technical standpoint.  it's modular, just drop in a Bitcoin Standard into it's slot in the current financial system w/o disrupting the fiat, debt, and derivative towers in place.

of course, as we've already stated in the Argentina thread, the value per BTC would have to skyrocket to fill that hole.  optional pegs would be M1, M2, M3 (discontinued), etc.
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July 28, 2014, 05:18:37 PM
 #9927

"Bitcoin is modular Gold" - cypherdoc

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/493807001554538496
rocks
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July 28, 2014, 05:27:23 PM
 #9928

First time i've listened to this.  Stripe is looking at the same endgame i've been advocating since the beginning.  

he's essentially saying that Bitcoin will act as a world reserve currency at the lower layer that can uniquely extend across borders to accomplish settlement btwn nations.  the in country "gateways", as he calls them, will allow the interface btwn Bitcoin and fiat currency.  customers of those gateways will continue to transact in fiat and trusted entities will arise to help guarantee customer tx's.  in other words, pretty much the same system we have today except with a trustless immutable protocol layer that ties everything together, ie, a Bitcoin Standard.  have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZwl7mukZ8

In many ways this is the same as the original gold standard. Fiat was backed by real money at a 1:1 ratio, but people transacted in paper because that was easier.

The eventual problem was the government was able to break convertability. For a very long time anyone could walk into a bank with fiat and walk out with a fixed amount of gold, coupled with most people viewing gold as real money. However during a crisis government was able to stop convertability,  devalue the fixed exchange rate and ban private possession of gold in one action. This ability to break convertability was the failure of the gold standard.

The ultimate advantage for bitcoin is governments can not stop convertability and it is relatively easy for individuals to hold and transact in bitcoin. IMHO this is a key advantage for bitcoin over gold, bitcoin will force governments to be honest for the first time in a long time.

yes, and the beauty of implementing a system like this is that it's well understood and experienced.  in fact, we still have a significant % of major economic players who remember acting within the gold std system back in 1971. 

in addition, it should be relatively simple from a technical standpoint.  it's modular, just drop in a Bitcoin Standard into it's slot in the current financial system w/o disrupting the fiat, debt, and derivative towers in place.

of course, as we've already stated in the Argentina thread, the value per BTC would have to skyrocket to fill that hole.  optional pegs would be M1, M2, M3 (discontinued), etc.

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.
cypherdoc
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July 28, 2014, 05:41:54 PM
 #9929

First time i've listened to this.  Stripe is looking at the same endgame i've been advocating since the beginning.  

he's essentially saying that Bitcoin will act as a world reserve currency at the lower layer that can uniquely extend across borders to accomplish settlement btwn nations.  the in country "gateways", as he calls them, will allow the interface btwn Bitcoin and fiat currency.  customers of those gateways will continue to transact in fiat and trusted entities will arise to help guarantee customer tx's.  in other words, pretty much the same system we have today except with a trustless immutable protocol layer that ties everything together, ie, a Bitcoin Standard.  have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZwl7mukZ8

In many ways this is the same as the original gold standard. Fiat was backed by real money at a 1:1 ratio, but people transacted in paper because that was easier.

The eventual problem was the government was able to break convertability. For a very long time anyone could walk into a bank with fiat and walk out with a fixed amount of gold, coupled with most people viewing gold as real money. However during a crisis government was able to stop convertability,  devalue the fixed exchange rate and ban private possession of gold in one action. This ability to break convertability was the failure of the gold standard.

The ultimate advantage for bitcoin is governments can not stop convertability and it is relatively easy for individuals to hold and transact in bitcoin. IMHO this is a key advantage for bitcoin over gold, bitcoin will force governments to be honest for the first time in a long time.

yes, and the beauty of implementing a system like this is that it's well understood and experienced.  in fact, we still have a significant % of major economic players who remember acting within the gold std system back in 1971. 

in addition, it should be relatively simple from a technical standpoint.  it's modular, just drop in a Bitcoin Standard into it's slot in the current financial system w/o disrupting the fiat, debt, and derivative towers in place.

of course, as we've already stated in the Argentina thread, the value per BTC would have to skyrocket to fill that hole.  optional pegs would be M1, M2, M3 (discontinued), etc.

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.

yep.  and this is ultimately what will effect your view on the endgame for Bitcoin:  banks/gov vs the ppl, big vs small, elites vs commoners, rich vs middle class, minority vs majority.  as an optimist and one who is hopeful about our future, i am going with the majority.
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July 28, 2014, 05:44:10 PM
 #9930

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.

I like your way of thinking.

I'm in it for what promises to be the ride of a lifetime Smiley I can't even imagine the world of crypto 5 or 10 years from now so I'm happy that I get to see it grow with my own eyes.

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
cypherdoc
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July 28, 2014, 05:57:13 PM
 #9931

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.

I like your way of thinking.

I'm in it for what promises to be the ride of a lifetime Smiley I can't even imagine the world of crypto 5 or 10 years from now so I'm happy that I get to see it grow with my own eyes.

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh

b/c Bulls are hard to ride.
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July 28, 2014, 06:01:59 PM
 #9932

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh

either some big scammer is dumping (Goxcoins etc.) -but the volume is too low for that-, or there is much uncertainty due to the influx of new and supposedly better altcoins, new bans/quasi-bans (from NY to Ecuador), and new FUD (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/why-bitcoin-may-one-day-split-into-black-and-white-coins)

Today i'm still buying and oriented to liquidate my paper silver stash to buy BTC in case of larger crashes

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July 28, 2014, 06:12:55 PM
 #9933

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.

I like your way of thinking.

I'm in it for what promises to be the ride of a lifetime Smiley I can't even imagine the world of crypto 5 or 10 years from now so I'm happy that I get to see it grow with my own eyes.

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh

It is very possible that we are more like at Jan 15, 2012 at this point.  In other words, we've recovered from the oversold condition but will be basically flat (slowly creeping up) for another year -- probably until there's another minor meltdown in the traditional banking sector.
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July 28, 2014, 06:20:10 PM
 #9934

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh

either some big scammer is dumping (Goxcoins etc.) -but the volume is too low for that-, or there is much uncertainty due to the influx of new and supposedly better altcoins, new bans/quasi-bans (from NY to Ecuador), and new FUD (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/why-bitcoin-may-one-day-split-into-black-and-white-coins)

Today i'm still buying and oriented to liquidate my paper silver stash to buy BTC in case of larger crashes

i'm sure there are plenty of Wall St mouth breathers around who believe that w/o NYDFS regs, Bitcoin is doomed. 
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July 28, 2014, 06:29:13 PM
 #9935

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.

I like your way of thinking.

I'm in it for what promises to be the ride of a lifetime Smiley I can't even imagine the world of crypto 5 or 10 years from now so I'm happy that I get to see it grow with my own eyes.

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh


Seven Stages Of Empire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSq5H7awi8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEdSq5H7awi8&app=desktop

Bitcoin down probably because of too many people are expecting a bubble rise and margin calls on Bitfinex

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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July 28, 2014, 06:39:09 PM
 #9936

Luria told Institutional Investor in June that he believes Atlas to be the frontrunner at creating a world-class trading platform, ahead of even existing market heavyweights such as SecondMarket and Kraken.

i think Atlas is extremely important:

Atlas ATS Expands Institutional Bitcoin Exchange to European Market

http://www.coindesk.com/atlas-ats-expands-institutional-exchange-european-market/
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July 28, 2014, 06:44:25 PM
 #9937

It may be simple/easy from a technical standpoint, but since it would force real honesty in government and thus deprive government and banks of the main source of their power, such a system will be resisted and fought against in every way imaginable. The only way a bitcoin standard will happen is if the majority of people choose to walk away from fiat of their own free will and choose to adopt bitcoin and think in bitcoin. (Which is exactly why there used to be a gold standard, it wasn't because governments liked it, but because it was demanded by the people)

These two opposing forces between government resistance and individual adoption is what will make this journey one of the most interesting in our lifetime, whichever way it eventually goes.

I like your way of thinking.

I'm in it for what promises to be the ride of a lifetime Smiley I can't even imagine the world of crypto 5 or 10 years from now so I'm happy that I get to see it grow with my own eyes.

meanwhile...Bitcoin DOWN. Why?  Huh


Seven Stages Of Empire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSq5H7awi8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEdSq5H7awi8&app=desktop

Bitcoin down probably because of too many people are expecting a bubble rise and margin calls on Bitfinex
lol, had to update this tread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=705604.0
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July 28, 2014, 07:00:52 PM
 #9938

Russell still lagging.  not a good sign:

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July 28, 2014, 07:13:59 PM
 #9939

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/493836618135252992
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July 28, 2014, 07:34:34 PM
 #9940

Xapo debit card spotted in the wild:

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