Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 02:20:57 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 [492] 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805832 times)
rocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1153


View Profile
July 23, 2014, 04:03:43 PM
 #9821

So we have 4T outstanding backed by 1.7T in land and buildings.  You want to know how much a dollar is really worth?  You do the math.

I think that those two graphs, velocity and monetary base tell a compelling story when put together.  And the moral of the story is that QE is ineffective; the real economy does not need any more dollars.

Edit: Could one of the main points of QE been to back the USD with something?

the main pt of QE was to keep up bank profits and the bonuses handed out to the banksters.

And to keep the Banking system from completely collapsing in on itself and having a world of angry customers with pitchforks after them.


Yup they did not let the failed institutions crumble as every business SHOULD live or die based on its own merits....not get bail outs.


[By not forcing the banks to go into bankruptcy, as should have happened, it also kept the banks' records out of reach of the public and pre-empted any civil suits, which, thank god, kept the CEOs out of jail.

Yes, QE has kept the undead banks functioning. It hopes to reflate the bubbles and get these banks back into some kind of solvency. Hasn't happened, won't happen, can't happen. It has kept the money and assets in the pockets of those who caused the whole mess too. And what's worse, they have used one tiny section of what is known as 'the holder memo' to avoid putting anyone in jail. So despite continuing criminality, fraud and deception, that increases systemic risk, no one goes to the big house.

It's actually an incentive to steal. Imagine implicitly knowing you can steal as much as you want and the worst that will happen is that you will have to give some of it back, because, you know, it might adversely effect the stability of the system if you go to jail.

And just think, if bitcoin succeeds this entire class of criminals goes away simply because the pot of money is no longer there. In a bitcoin system these bankers would actually have to live with their mistakes, that would be a shock to them.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481163657
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481163657

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481163657
Reply with quote  #2

1481163657
Report to moderator
1481163657
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481163657

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481163657
Reply with quote  #2

1481163657
Report to moderator
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 04:52:36 PM
 #9822

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/491989188552982529
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 04:59:37 PM
 #9823

perhaps gold breaking below 1300 again could spark/catalyze the next Bitcoin rally?  the bull flag is ripe for a breakout...

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 05:05:05 PM
 #9824

Why Scale Is Overrated in Banking, in Two Charts

http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/why-scale-is-overrated-in-banking-in-two-charts-1068916-1.html#comments



cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 05:11:55 PM
 #9825

but this is how open source software evolves, isn't it?

The world's most secure OS may have a serious problem

http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/22/5927917/the-worlds-most-secure-os-may-have-a-serious-problem
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
 #9826


https://twitter.com/MarcHochstein/status/491991777298358272
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 05:46:46 PM
 #9827

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."- cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 05:51:42 PM
 #9828

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."-cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.

i doubt etherum will even grow enough to tickle the regulation tyrants.



not so optimistic eh ^^
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 05:55:52 PM
 #9829

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."-cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.

i doubt etherum will even grow enough to tickle the regulation tyrants.



not so optimistic eh ^^

honestly, i don't think they're going to wait around to see.
thezerg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246


View Profile
July 23, 2014, 06:02:12 PM
 #9830

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."-cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.

I think your quote is premature.  But correct today.  Why expose yourself to all the risk of using technology with only 5 years of history and then chain yourself to an instrument whose upside is that of gold, USD, or a stock/bond?

The only advantage of having this stuff in the blockchain is that it provides more liquidity to bitcoin (the liquidity of the underlying instrument will be lower than its normal market for years).  You can get out of BTC into colored-coin USD, etc quickly and after doing so your USD is not sitting on some shady exchange that might go belly up... but oh wait, the blockchain is a representation, so its actually sitting in the vault of some shady backer that might go belly up!

So there's no point right now unless the company itself issues the stock on the blockchain, or a top-10 financial company provides the backing.

But if Bitcoin grows to become daily currency and the blockchain technology matures, then it will start making more sense to put other stuff on the blockchain to facilitate trade.

_mr_e
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 815



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 06:54:40 PM
 #9831

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."- cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.

I would just like to point out that the creator of NXT(BCNxt) was also able to stay completely anonymous, while bootstrapping using privacy via bitcoins in it's early days;) Turing completeness & smart contracts is also on it's upcoming feature list and unlike Ethereum, it actually has a working product.
HeliKopterBen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 622



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 07:06:28 PM
 #9832

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."- cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.

I believe we will see many financial functions utilize distributed consesus technology in some form or another.  Whether all functions will use the bitcoin chain or whether multiple chains develop remains to be seen.  There are projects under development other than ethereum and I believe one or two will emerge as a digital asset management system.  Blockchain technology just provides a far superior mechanism for handling these assets vs their legacy counterparts.  For example, shares of stock can be placed in cold storage instead of with a broker.  Also, many more projects are emerging such as distributed internet and resource sharing. 

Don't get me wrong, bitcoin will be the standard as far as money goes, but the upper limit of this technology would be to replace the entire global financial system, which would take decades.  Whether it gets that far or whether it falls into a niche type crowdfunding model or similar remains to be seen, but it will be used in some capacity other than just money for quite some time.  Vitalik and company may be pestered by authorities but development will ultimately move to favorable jurisdictions and those countries who are hostile will lose out.  The legacy financial system is in such a disaster that I believe it is inevitable.  Either way, interesting times and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. 

Also, thanks for all the info cypher.

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 07:38:00 PM
 #9833

"The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as Money."- cypherdoc

The new Ethereum release and funding is going to be a good test of my theory.  From just over 50% confidence, I've moved it to just over 60% after the NYDFS regs.  I say this b/c of the onerous identification mechanisms the regs have introduced.  Because Vitalik and company are well known and trackable, I think they could become targets very soon by the SEC or some such regulatory agency for selling securities unregulated.  With any regulatory attack will also come a freezing of their ether and USD funding.  Mind you, I don't wish this on them at all; it's just a fact.  As I've been saying, Satoshi by luck, design and timing, created a set of conditions that may never be reproducible.  His anonymity being one of the most critical along with his privacy in boot strapping Bitcoin via mining in the early stages.  I also don't see where Ethereum's mining power is going to come from.  There aren't going to be many miners willing to secure stocks, bonds, smart contracts, or whatever, I think.

We'll see.

I believe we will see many financial functions utilize distributed consesus technology in some form or another.  Whether all functions will use the bitcoin chain or whether multiple chains develop remains to be seen.  There are projects under development other than ethereum and I believe one or two will emerge as a digital asset management system.  Blockchain technology just provides a far superior mechanism for handling these assets vs their legacy counterparts.  For example, shares of stock can be placed in cold storage instead of with a broker.  Also, many more projects are emerging such as distributed internet and resource sharing.  

Don't get me wrong, bitcoin will be the standard as far as money goes, but the upper limit of this technology would be to replace the entire global financial system, which would take decades.  Whether it gets that far or whether it falls into a niche type crowdfunding model or similar remains to be seen, but it will be used in some capacity other than just money for quite some time.  Vitalik and company may be pestered by authorities but development will ultimately move to favorable jurisdictions and those countries who are hostile will lose out.  The legacy financial system is in such a disaster that I believe it is inevitable.  Either way, interesting times and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.  

Also, thanks for all the info cypher.

you're welcome.

the reason i've been apt to say such a bold thing, and i still can't be sure it's going to turn out this way, is that the problem is all about the money.  it's all about the excessive leverage and overindebtedness that is allowed to occur first and then followed on in a crisis by rampant fiat printing by CB's.  absent that, i don't think we would be having all these problems.  it's not the stocks, bonds, or dervatives necessarily that are the problem, altho corruption exists there as well; it's the implicit backing by the Fed with money printing that encourages these trusted actors to go hog wild abusing the system knowing all the while that they'll be bailed out with fresh money.  absent that central problem, everything else could be reeled in.  and that's exactly what Bitcoin can solve, if allowed to replace gold's role as a world reserve currency.  

while we existing Bitcoiners might be able to live in a world where all these derivatives are decentralized, i don't think the average person can, will, or want to do the same.  they won't mind depending on centralized trusted actors.  and that would be ok in a system where Bitcoin provides the mathematical hammer to prevent fleecing of customers.  Bitcoin encourages transparent and honest behavior that should trickle up in such a system based on a mathematical algorithm.

moving to a Bitcoin Standard is also the easiest, simplest way to transition away from a fiat system w/o causing a world war.  it would cause the least amount of disruption, pain, and misery to existing actors and, depending on how executed, would allow much of the current debt hole to be filled and supported with an appropriately valued Bitcoin.  this of course would require a much higher valuation than today's price.  as an optimist to where we are headed as a global society, this is how i think it should play out.  but surely, i could be wrong.

and is also why i doubt gold will ever return to it's former role, as it's an Armageddon play.
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
July 23, 2014, 07:53:35 PM
 #9834

There are projects under development other than ethereum and I believe one or two will emerge as a digital asset management system.
I expect Open-Transactions to be the system most likely to emerge as a financial instrument platform, for the simple reason that Fellow Traveller is refusing to fall into the appcoin tarpit.

All these systems that are based around an appcoin will fail, but OT will stick around because it just tries to a useful software platform instead of also trying to be its own currency (P&D scheme).
HeliKopterBen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 622



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 09:57:20 PM
 #9835

while we existing Bitcoiners might be able to live in a world where all these derivatives are decentralized, i don't think the average person can, will, or want to do the same.  they won't mind depending on centralized trusted actors.  

Decentralized systems can become just as user friendly or more user friendly than centralized systems, which were inherently built in a pre-digital age preventing them from giving us all the inherent security and freedom of decentralized systems.  However, I agree that money is the most important foundational component to decentralize.  Everything else is secondary and can come later if needed.

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
HeliKopterBen
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 622



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 10:00:30 PM
 #9836

I expect Open-Transactions to be the system most likely to emerge as a financial instrument platform, for the simple reason that Fellow Traveller is refusing to fall into the appcoin tarpit.

All these systems that are based around an appcoin will fail, but OT will stick around because it just tries to a useful software platform instead of also trying to be its own currency (P&D scheme).

I'm not a big fan of the "embedded" currencies either.  In most cases they are not necessary.

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 10:07:11 PM
 #9837

it (...) would allow much of the current debt hole to be filled and supported with an appropriately valued Bitcoin.  this of course would require a much higher valuation than today's price.  as an optimist to where we are headed as a global society, this is how i think it should play out.  but surely, i could be wrong.

hum cant wait for that silly debt to be backed with bitcoins... Grin Cheesy

i think we all agree that the current system is on its knees, struggling not to collapse in a blink, keeping the illusion. from there, cryptocurrencies seems to be the the logical and appropriate move: E V O L U T I O N.

ps: and thx for the infos too cypher Smiley
Trader Steve
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 725


"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."


View Profile
July 24, 2014, 12:53:58 AM
 #9838

There are projects under development other than ethereum and I believe one or two will emerge as a digital asset management system.
I expect Open-Transactions to be the system most likely to emerge as a financial instrument platform, for the simple reason that Fellow Traveller is refusing to fall into the appcoin tarpit.

All these systems that are based around an appcoin will fail, but OT will stick around because it just tries to a useful software platform instead of also trying to be its own currency (P&D scheme).

I think so too. Just as Bitcoin was the Black Swan of gold, OT might be the Black Swan of alt-coins/alt-chains.

Any new technology that leverages the strength of the Bitcoin Blockchain has a much greater chance of success than those which try to compete with it. I am especially excited about the prospects of OpenTransactions Chaumian True Digital Cash that is backed by bitcoin. If my understanding is correct this could solve both the anonymity problem and the potential future bitcoin transaction fee problem. If any of you have any more info on this I would love to hear it.


Peter R
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938



View Profile
July 24, 2014, 01:01:31 AM
 #9839

I believe we will see many financial functions utilize distributed consesus technology in some form or another.  Whether all functions will use the bitcoin chain or whether multiple chains develop remains to be seen.  There are projects under development other than ethereum and I believe one or two will emerge as a digital asset management system.  Blockchain technology just provides a far superior mechanism for handling these assets vs their legacy counterparts.  For example, shares of stock can be placed in cold storage instead of with a broker.  Also, many more projects are emerging such as distributed internet and resource sharing. 

Realistically, many of these blockchain applications are a decade or more away (as you pointed out as well).  For example, "bearer shares" are illegal in all jurisdictions that I'm aware of.  I think it may be reasonable to create colored-coin share certificates that can be endorsed to a new owner by a digital signature, but the endorsee would have to present that colored-coin share certificate to the company and identify himself by legal name and address in order to complete the transfer in the company's share register.  New laws would need to be written to have it any other way. 

Quote
Don't get me wrong, bitcoin will be the standard as far as money goes, but the upper limit of this technology would be to replace the entire global financial system, which would take decades.  Whether it gets that far or whether it falls into a niche type crowdfunding model or similar remains to be seen, but it will be used in some capacity other than just money for quite some time.  Vitalik and company may be pestered by authorities but development will ultimately move to favorable jurisdictions and those countries who are hostile will lose out.  The legacy financial system is in such a disaster that I believe it is inevitable.  Either way, interesting times and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. 

I think the idea of launching new global financial products from favourable jurisdictions is overstated.  US law enforcement has global reach and it will be a fight to change this.  Let's say you found some strange African country that allowed bearer shares or permitted Brock Pierce's "Real Coins."  Is anyone serious going to be interested given the lack of legal protection should something go wrong?  No one cares about some Mickey-Mouse Nxt token for ounces of silver issued by an anonymous forum member, but real businesses with public profiles will not be taking similar risks. 

There is so much we can do with bitcoin as a store of value, medium of exchange, and unit of account.  Let's get this working first.   


Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
July 24, 2014, 01:11:31 AM
 #9840

I am especially excited about the prospects of OpenTransactions Chaumian True Digital Cash that is backed by bitcoin. If my understanding is correct this could solve both the anonymity problem and the potential future bitcoin transaction fee problem. If any of you have any more info on this I would love to hear it.
Once voting pools are completed, it will be possible to safely deposit Bitcoins with OT transaction servers and have a reasonable assurance that you're actually going to get your deposits back.

The transaction servers will issue signed promissory notes for the deposits which can be used just like any other OT instrument.

The first thing this means it that it will be possible to have exchanges that can't steal your Bitcoins any more.

Also, as you mentioned, you get to use all OT features including Chaumian blinding and smart contracts with Bitcoins.
Pages: « 1 ... 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 [492] 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!