Scientific proof that God exists?

[Vod]

Both science and religion say the big bang and evolution are facts.  Who cares anymore what one idiot thinks.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-9822514.html

[BADecker]

Since God created science and authorized religion, both of them for the benefit of people, He cares what people think... so that they are saved.

[Astargath]

It's funny because you don't realize that what you are saying directly disproves god. ''But we don't have even one factual spontaneous generation.'' So you are saying god did not spontaneously generate the planets, stars, animals, the universe?

is it required that God created the universe by spontaneous generation? We don't know how He created the universe, scientifically. God, being outside the universe, has His own ways of doing things. Just because we recognize many things within the universe as being made by other things in the universe, doesn't mean God did it that way, or spontaneously, when He made the universe. What ever way He did it, we don't know, scientifically.

As an example, at least one religion says that He spoke the universe into being. I don't mean to make this into a religious post. All I am showing is an example of a kind of cause that we don't understand. That's why God is scientifically called, at times, The Great First Cause.

It seems like you don't like the idea of God, whatever He/It happens to be. So you limit your ability to think objectively, just to focus on what you want, rather than what exists. Why are you so against science that you won't accept scientific proof when you are shown it, yet you often accept as scientific proof, some scientific theory, which is known to not be factual? What do you have against science?

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

[ATMD]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

[Astargath]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

His argument goes like this: The universe had a beginning and anything that causes something else, has to be more complex (whatever that means). Therefore god created the universe. Problem is, how do we know it wasn't gods, or something else that created the universe?

[ATMD]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

His argument goes like this: The universe had a beginning and anything that causes something else, has to be more complex (whatever that means). Therefore god created the universe. Problem is, how do we know it wasn't gods, or something else that created the universe?

Thank you Astargath for clarifying.

[BADecker]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

His argument goes like this: The universe had a beginning and anything that causes something else, has to be more complex (whatever that means). Therefore god created the universe. Problem is, how do we know it wasn't gods, or something else that created the universe?

Thank you Astargath for clarifying.

Actually, that isn't how the points go. Astargath, being the deceptive troll that he is, didn't mention cause and effect, which covers everything, including free will.

For proof that God exists, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

[af_newbie]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

His argument goes like this: The universe had a beginning and anything that causes something else, has to be more complex (whatever that means). Therefore god created the universe. Problem is, how do we know it wasn't gods, or something else that created the universe?

Thank you Astargath for clarifying.

Actually, that isn't how the points go. Astargath, being the deceptive troll that he is, didn't mention cause and effect, which covers everything, including free will.

For proof that God exists, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

and you are forgetting that for your cause to exist there would have to be a time the cause could exist in.

Before the Big Bang there was no time, i.e. the cause could not exist.

Sleep on it, eventually, it will sink in.

[BADecker]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

His argument goes like this: The universe had a beginning and anything that causes something else, has to be more complex (whatever that means). Therefore god created the universe. Problem is, how do we know it wasn't gods, or something else that created the universe?

Thank you Astargath for clarifying.

Actually, that isn't how the points go. Astargath, being the deceptive troll that he is, didn't mention cause and effect, which covers everything, including free will.

For proof that God exists, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

and you are forgetting that for your cause to exist there would have to be a time the cause could exist in. - Remember, the Great First Cause is something that exists outside of time, because It causes time, as well as the universe. However, you are being caused by a collusion of many causes, to post as you do.

Before the Big Bang there was no time, i.e. the cause could not exist. - In simple form, because there was no BB. In complex form, basically what I have been saying all along, that before time existed, there was no time. That which is outside of the universe to cause it, isn't made out of anything within the universe.

Sleep on it, eventually, it will sink in.

Calculate out what I said in this post. Then be honest, and let us know that you doubt the things that you say, even if you won't accept the things that I say.

[Brandonkimm]

I really think that the Holy Bible is the only living proof that we have, it may not be scientific, but it's enough for those who believes.

[seoincorporation]

New scientific evidence has been released... The next video is the scientific proof that God exists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXu9_etC5uk

But what's the science on it? Well, it explains how God exists with the 3 Newton Laws:

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[af_newbie]

You said, there is only ''1 thing outside the universe'' which you claim it's god. If god created the universe, where did he get the ''materials'' to do so? Was it not spontaneously generated?

If I understand this correctly, BADecker is claiming that the universe was spontaneously generated by God
He does not believe that something can be spontaneously generated by itself

Am I correct BADecker?

His argument goes like this: The universe had a beginning and anything that causes something else, has to be more complex (whatever that means). Therefore god created the universe. Problem is, how do we know it wasn't gods, or something else that created the universe?

Thank you Astargath for clarifying.

Actually, that isn't how the points go. Astargath, being the deceptive troll that he is, didn't mention cause and effect, which covers everything, including free will.

For proof that God exists, see:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

and you are forgetting that for your cause to exist there would have to be a time the cause could exist in. - Remember, the Great First Cause is something that exists outside of time, because It causes time, as well as the universe. However, you are being caused by a collusion of many causes, to post as you do.

Before the Big Bang there was no time, i.e. the cause could not exist. - In simple form, because there was no BB. In complex form, basically what I have been saying all along, that before time existed, there was no time. That which is outside of the universe to cause it, isn't made out of anything within the universe.

Sleep on it, eventually, it will sink in.

Calculate out what I said in this post. Then be honest, and let us know that you doubt the things that you say, even if you won't accept the things that I say.

It is hard to imagine a condition without the spacetime we are familiar with.  That still remains a mystery.

We have observational data that proves that the Big Bang did indeed happen. We have no clue what happened between time 0 and 380,000 years but new studies of gravitational waves will shed light on that period as well.

As to the "outside of the universe", well, your guess is as good as mine.  Maybe there is no outside.  What you see is what will eventually collapse into a singularity and another BB will produce a different version of our universe.

Saying that some "magician" started this energy explosion raises more questions than it answers.  It anthropomorphizes the solution.

Another possibility is that we are just a massive black hole that exploded somewhere in the cosmos and created our universe.  Maybe that is why we have Black Holes in our universe.  Just a common feature of the larger cosmos.

[ATMD]

Badecker, I read your discourse on man's free will to choose evil over good. It was well-written, thanks!

Some people choose evil over good, this is a fact of life. How can we blame God for evil existing? Either we are created as robots who can do no harm and live in an evil-free world (what would be the point), or we are created as human beings with free will but the price we pay is evil existing among us for we can choose evil whenever we want to.

To be fair, the concept of God is extremely difficult to imagine. How can a being exist forever with no beginning? Infinity is so hard to grasp, it is much easier for me to believe in something that has a beginning and an end.

[BADecker]

Badecker, I read your discourse on man's free will to choose evil over good. It was well-written, thanks!

Some people choose evil over good, this is a fact of life. How can we blame God for evil existing? Either we are created as robots who can do no harm and live in an evil-free world (what would be the point), or we are created as human beings with free will but the price we pay is evil existing among us for we can choose evil whenever we want to.

To be fair, the concept of God is extremely difficult to imagine. How can a being exist forever with no beginning? Infinity is so hard to grasp, it is much easier for me to believe in something that has a beginning and an end.

We do all kinds of things with microbes. They react in a Petri dish. But they never know what in the world is really going on.

We make robots and AI. But aren't we really complex robots?

Why would one think that a Being that is so great that It can make a universe easier than we can build a house, is impossible? Nature suggests such a being, way more than it suggests any spontaneous happening.

[Astargath]

Badecker, I read your discourse on man's free will to choose evil over good. It was well-written, thanks!

Some people choose evil over good, this is a fact of life. How can we blame God for evil existing? Either we are created as robots who can do no harm and live in an evil-free world (what would be the point), or we are created as human beings with free will but the price we pay is evil existing among us for we can choose evil whenever we want to.

To be fair, the concept of God is extremely difficult to imagine. How can a being exist forever with no beginning? Infinity is so hard to grasp, it is much easier for me to believe in something that has a beginning and an end.

We do all kinds of things with microbes. They react in a Petri dish. But they never know what in the world is really going on.

We make robots and AI. But aren't we really complex robots?

Why would one think that a Being that is so great that It can make a universe easier than we can build a house, is impossible? Nature suggests such a being, way more than it suggests any spontaneous happening.

''Why would one think that a Being that is so great that It can make a universe easier than we can build a house, is impossible?'' I don't but why would you think it has to be one being and not multiple?

[ATMD]

Badecker, I read your discourse on man's free will to choose evil over good. It was well-written, thanks!

Some people choose evil over good, this is a fact of life. How can we blame God for evil existing? Either we are created as robots who can do no harm and live in an evil-free world (what would be the point), or we are created as human beings with free will but the price we pay is evil existing among us for we can choose evil whenever we want to.

To be fair, the concept of God is extremely difficult to imagine. How can a being exist forever with no beginning? Infinity is so hard to grasp, it is much easier for me to believe in something that has a beginning and an end.

We do all kinds of things with microbes. They react in a Petri dish. But they never know what in the world is really going on.

We make robots and AI. But aren't we really complex robots?

Why would one think that a Being that is so great that It can make a universe easier than we can build a house, is impossible? Nature suggests such a being, way more than it suggests any spontaneous happening.

Nothing is impossible for God. What I was saying is that the difference between us and robots is that we can make free choices to do evil or do good. Robots that are programmed to always choose good can not do evil.

[BADecker]

Badecker, I read your discourse on man's free will to choose evil over good. It was well-written, thanks!

Some people choose evil over good, this is a fact of life. How can we blame God for evil existing? Either we are created as robots who can do no harm and live in an evil-free world (what would be the point), or we are created as human beings with free will but the price we pay is evil existing among us for we can choose evil whenever we want to.

To be fair, the concept of God is extremely difficult to imagine. How can a being exist forever with no beginning? Infinity is so hard to grasp, it is much easier for me to believe in something that has a beginning and an end.

We do all kinds of things with microbes. They react in a Petri dish. But they never know what in the world is really going on.

We make robots and AI. But aren't we really complex robots?

Why would one think that a Being that is so great that It can make a universe easier than we can build a house, is impossible? Nature suggests such a being, way more than it suggests any spontaneous happening.

Nothing is impossible for God. What I was saying is that the difference between us and robots is that we can make free choices to do evil or do good. Robots that are programmed to always choose good can not do evil.

However, we are trying to make trainable AI that will choose the good.

Since there are flaws in everything that we do, we will only succeed in making AI that ultimately turns to evil. And if this AI is placed into, or controls, a robotic body that has physical strength that is stronger than ours, it will ultimately destroy us all... if God doesn't step in and stop it.

[Astargath]

Badecker, I read your discourse on man's free will to choose evil over good. It was well-written, thanks!

Some people choose evil over good, this is a fact of life. How can we blame God for evil existing? Either we are created as robots who can do no harm and live in an evil-free world (what would be the point), or we are created as human beings with free will but the price we pay is evil existing among us for we can choose evil whenever we want to.

To be fair, the concept of God is extremely difficult to imagine. How can a being exist forever with no beginning? Infinity is so hard to grasp, it is much easier for me to believe in something that has a beginning and an end.

We do all kinds of things with microbes. They react in a Petri dish. But they never know what in the world is really going on.

We make robots and AI. But aren't we really complex robots?

Why would one think that a Being that is so great that It can make a universe easier than we can build a house, is impossible? Nature suggests such a being, way more than it suggests any spontaneous happening.

Nothing is impossible for God. What I was saying is that the difference between us and robots is that we can make free choices to do evil or do good. Robots that are programmed to always choose good can not do evil.

Well, scientifically it's not clear whether we actually have ''free choice''. Everything could be deterministic. Badecker himself said so.

PD: You still didn't answer badecker.

[Vod]

if God doesn't step in and stop it.

That fairy tale is the reason humanity is doomed.  Billions of people see no need to clean up their mess, as they believe a maid will do it for them.  :/

[BADecker]

if God doesn't step in and stop it.

That fairy tale is the reason humanity is doomed.  Billions of people see no need to clean up their mess, as they believe a maid will do it for them.  :/

The machine-like nature proves God. Machines have makers.