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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 108027 times)
peasant
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August 29, 2012, 02:13:30 AM
 #1181

At least we have some closure here. Good thing i got into bitcoin late, and never had the option to put a large sum into PPT. And it all goes BOOM!  Cheesy
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August 29, 2012, 02:21:32 AM
 #1182

Pirate just declared default:

<pirateat40> As much as I've tried to meet the deadlines within the community, there're conditions beyond my control which have escalated the process to the point it is today.
<pirateat40> Bitcoin Savings & Trust has hereby given notice of default to it's account holders.

<pirateat40> No timeline or further information is available at this time.


This is from #btcst channel, the official bitcoin savings and trust chat.
Hey! BurtW! Might want to update your bet thread  Cheesy

Why so soon?  Default doesn't mean no one gets paid, as Goat repeatedly points out.  It just means no one gets paid now.  Around Christmastime 2013, BurtW will post "Week 70: 1,065,321 coins.  Heck yeah, over a million coins!  Got anything that compares, Team Ponzi?  I thought not."

Of course, I doubt he had a fraction of his claim with Pirate at the collapse.  Unlike OP, I think BurtW was a shill top-to-bottom.  The sort of Ponzi doublethink Joel describes is far too charitable for a passthrough operator who pitches to newbies and attacks anyone making obvious observations.
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August 29, 2012, 03:46:58 AM
 #1183

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.
bitlane
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August 29, 2012, 03:52:59 AM
 #1184

Around Christmastime 2013, BurtW will post "Week 70: 1,065,321 coins.  Heck yeah, over a million coins!  Got anything that compares, Team Ponzi?  I thought not."

I nearly pissed my pants reading and trying to re-quote this just now.....

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August 29, 2012, 09:28:31 AM
 #1185

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

I think this script-bot is a bit haywire...

*processing payment* *error 404 : funds not found*
Do you want to complain on the forum just to fall for another scam a few days later?
| YES       |        YES |
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August 29, 2012, 10:08:51 AM
 #1186

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.
What makes you think it's voluntary?! Every Ponzi scheme defaults sooner or later when they no longer have enough reserves plus deposits to pay withdrawals (unless there's an arrest first).

I am an employee of Ripple.
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 29, 2012, 11:08:06 AM
 #1187

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

Pirate didn't voluntarily default today.  He involuntarily defaulted 12 days ago when he was unable to payout withdraws requested.  Everything since then has been a dog and pony show.  One doesn't need to "declare" a default.  A default is not meeting your debt obligations.  You default by your actions.  

Pirate offered investors suckers DEMAND ACCOUNTS that means they can be withdrawn ON DEMAND without delay.  On 08/17 some accont holders made a DEMAND to withdraw their funds and that demand wasn't met.  At that instant Pirate was in default.  Period.  No ifs, ands or buts.
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August 29, 2012, 11:26:17 AM
 #1188

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.
When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.
bitlane
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August 29, 2012, 11:28:58 AM
 #1189

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.
When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.

...BUT...did anyone get a free steak dinner and photo OP out of the deal, during it's 'Glory Days' ?

Perhaps some see 'value' differently than others. Being 'Starstruck' is not always a bad thing....

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August 29, 2012, 11:49:18 AM
 #1190

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.
When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.

...BUT...did anyone get a free steak dinner and photo OP out of the deal, during it's 'Glory Days' ?

People got multi-million dollar bribes and extremely expensive gifts  Wink
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August 29, 2012, 12:01:20 PM
 #1191

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.

Check my previous posts right at "closure" announcement. 

I predicted everything to a T so far - not that is is an amazing accomplishment - this should be the Ponzi manual in the Jr. Bernie Madoff "My First Ponzi Starter Kit" by Mattel

This is nothing but the latest step in the long stall that is "letting the mark down easy"

Very frequently there is abrupt end and the schemer runs away, but also very frequently there is the long stall and he'll tell people you are his friend and he'll make it right, just more time, more paperwork, etc.  Announcing a closure a week and a half ago was a stall, into the Monday deadline, into a stall with no time frame, into a default message, into a stall for another random deadline this time to submit personal information of the marks!??

I mean, I hope co-conspirator Payb.tc isn't stupid enough to fuck over his already fucked over userbase.  Any co-conspirator that hands personal info over to Pirate after this debacle is now crossing into the dark side.  A common use of this info is to re-roll the mark by saying "I can get you Pirate money back" and the mark gets rolled again somehow, like hiring a BS investigator or something.

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August 29, 2012, 04:16:16 PM
 #1192

Hey Team Ponzi - serious question: what Ponzi operator has voluntarily declared default? Pirate doesn't count because he still hasn't admitted or been proven to run one.
When Bernie's scheme collapsed in '08 he "voluntarily" declared himself in default the same way Pirate has, albeit without the outright confession of utter fraud.

Thank you.
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August 29, 2012, 09:04:04 PM
 #1193

1)  My podcast starts tonight at 7:00pm PST on DonkDown, I will be discussing this matter at length

2)  Matt and anyone else is welcome to call in.  Really hoping for bitlane. 

3)  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah0rJ1eK8mwpdEs2MFRfbGQybGhNamo1aGhDSURaT1E#gid=0  this should have been the proof posted to the question "why does 7%/wk have to be a scam?"  - simply put, if you invested $100 today in 8 yrs you would have all the money in the world.  Spreadsheet proves that statement.

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August 29, 2012, 09:06:43 PM
 #1194

also, the "black eye for bitcoin" type of stories from this are starting to trickle in:


http://rt.com/usa/news/investors-currency-digital-fund-868/

http://www.dailytech.com/Pirateat40+Makes+Off+56M+USD+in+BitCoins+From+Pyramid+Scheme/article25538.htm

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August 29, 2012, 11:20:00 PM
 #1195

Im pretty sure most ppl know its a scam just they think they can get out of the ponzi early enough. That's basically how hyip sites like talkgold work. Make your ponzi high yield and bail before the admin disappears to panama with millions like SportArbs

Bitcoin also makes all the old scams new again. Surprised there isn't a a guy peddling Swiss trust accounts here yet
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August 30, 2012, 12:04:24 AM
 #1196

Based on the information we have (which is not complete), he most likely got out with around 200k BTC. However, we never analyzed the last week to get those withdrawal numbers and it's also very likely that most of the BTC was sold at around $5. Worst case, he still got away with half a million USD, although it is more likely closer to $1 million USD.

I have a problem with taking anyone's word on this information. If it doesn't matter now that Pirate has shut down, why not release it? The accusing party demanded that Pirate release information, yet won't share its own discovery? What's so proprietary about this admittedly inconsequential information? The royal 'we' sounds like an excuse.

I believe there's a word for this: hypocrisy.

Another problem I have - if Pirate was running a scam and this information is relevant, then the longer it takes for it to be opened to further scrutiny, the longer Pirate has to obscure his trail. Intervening during a crime in progress depends heavily on information. As far as I'm concerned right now, the information is either fabricated, or the parties involved with it are obstructing community efforts to discover what's going on.

Or maybe Maged is Pirate, spreading more misinformation.
I know. But it is not my place to share this information. I am only authorized to give my conclusions on the data.

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August 30, 2012, 12:23:10 AM
 #1197

I appreciate your insight, Maged. When I try to reconstruct the scam on a spreadsheet, making the inflows exceed 7%, growing from maybe 1000 to 500,000 today, it's hard to see how he gets away with more than 100k.

I for one would take your conclusions over Miscreanity's former pompous lecturing on Pirate's brilliant business model any day of the week.
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August 30, 2012, 03:42:00 AM
 #1198

I know. But it is not my place to share this information. I am only authorized to give my conclusions on the data.

As frustrating as that is, fair enough. Are the conclusions unanimous?

I for one would take your conclusions over Miscreanity's former pompous lecturing on Pirate's brilliant business model any day of the week.

It still hasn't been conclusively shown to be a Ponzi, despite the accusations. There are ways of generating unbelievably high returns in an unregulated environment.

Either way, things can blow up in the operator's face. I won't draw conclusions without more information; everything I've seen regarding BS&T has been speculation so far.

Regardless, the entertainment value has been well worth the price of admission. Back to wait-and-watch mode.
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August 30, 2012, 07:30:01 AM
 #1199

Im pretty sure most ppl know its a scam just they think they can get out of the ponzi early enough. That's basically how hyip sites like talkgold work. Make your ponzi high yield and bail before the admin disappears to panama with millions like SportArbs

Never underestimate stupidity. Look at the "Closed" thread, if you want to have fun.

Bitcoin also makes all the old scams new again. …

Very true. Just faster.
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August 30, 2012, 08:39:56 AM
 #1200

It still hasn't been conclusively shown to be a Ponzi, despite the accusations.
Can you conclusively show that it still hasn't been conclusively shown to be a Ponzi? Have you read every forum post? Checked every other piece of evidence? Traveled the world to ensure you didn't miss one shred of conceivable evidence? Maybe it has been conclusively shown that Pirate is a Ponzi.

(My point, of course, is that this "conclusively shown" bit is a red herring. People only bring out absurd standards like that when they don't like where the actual evidence leads.)

I am an employee of Ripple.
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