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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 115589 times)
Micon
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August 26, 2012, 11:26:42 AM
 #1121

What evidence? I must keep missing it.
The really huge ones:
- There has never been an investment scheme that promises to pay this well that didn't turn out to be a ponzi.
- Only one guy claims to have gotten 100 BTC 5+ days after he was supposed to start paying.

Perhaps you are confusing evidence with proof?

Evidence can be misleading. Someone stabs themselves and drops the bloody knife and I pick it up. Evidence points to me stabbing them. Thankfully, real judges and courts are not so ignorant as this community to judge so quickly.

Matt, you always suggest the 0.00001% scenario when making the non-Ponzi argument.  

Stephen Hawkings TV special recently taught me about "best fit reality" - i.e. when I leave my office and come back in an hour, my chair is always in the same spot I left it - I assume it has been sitting there the whole time I was gone.  But what if when I left my office, my chair opened the window and flew to the international space station then right before I get back in the room it flies back in, closes the window and returns to the exact same spot I left it an hour ago.  Of course my "best fit reality" is that it just stayed there the whole time.

99.99999999999%+ the chair was just there the whole time, but I can never be certain, however I'd bet Matt an additional 500BTC on every trial of that too.

If you want to go another 500BTC in, I'm game ^_^

ok, I'm in.  I assume we are talking about Pirate, not my chair going to the ISS.  I'll conf-post in the other thread or you can just do it / link to this acceptance

Lol no not the chair going to ISS. -That- would be a gamble.

Bet increase acknowledged.

I feel the fact that I received this casino mailer today hurts my chances, helps Matt's side.  Hopefully unrelated:




I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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August 27, 2012, 12:44:41 PM
 #1122

By the way, now even the hare-brained should get second thoughts. The pirate has decided to shut down a business that ostensibly produced $50,000 per day. He does not gently wind it down over a couple of months. Instead he shuts it down from one day to the other, citing the reason that he wants time with his family. He does not pay out at least his bigger accounts, although each day would cost him another $50,000. How much crazier can it get?

This.

I wonder if an apology will be forthcoming any time soon...

Oh, and BurtW still hasn't updated his bet thread. Using mark-to-market (y'know, as you do for debt instruments like this) I figure he's down about 6500BTC.
Except he's not, because he almost certainly never made that deposit  Cheesy
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August 27, 2012, 03:02:41 PM
 #1123

By the way, now even the hare-brained should get second thoughts. The pirate has decided to shut down a business that ostensibly produced $50,000 per day. He does not gently wind it down over a couple of months. Instead he shuts it down from one day to the other, citing the reason that he wants time with his family. He does not pay out at least his bigger accounts, although each day would cost him another $50,000. How much crazier can it get?

This.

I wonder if an apology will be forthcoming any time soon...

Oh, and BurtW still hasn't updated his bet thread. Using mark-to-market (y'know, as you do for debt instruments like this) I figure he's down about 6500BTC.
Except he's not, because he almost certainly never made that deposit  Cheesy

Indeed, BurtW strikes me as one of the shilliest of the shills. Bet he turned a profit.

Weird how quiet it's gotten on this thread now that it's increasingly clear OP is basically right on the big one.
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August 27, 2012, 08:31:21 PM
 #1124

If Pirate pays eveyone then I do stand to make a tidy profit.  If he does not pay everyone then I stand to lose a lot of my BTC.

There was never an if and there is still no if.

Why do some people not get it even after it is twice as obvious as it has always been?
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August 27, 2012, 08:40:23 PM
 #1125

If Pirate pays eveyone then I do stand to make a tidy profit.  If he does not pay everyone then I stand to lose a lot of my BTC.

There was never an if and there is still no if.

Why do some people not get it even after it is twice as obvious as it has always been?

Got it... Its not if, its when. Thanks for clearing that up.
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August 27, 2012, 11:27:13 PM
 #1126

Weird how quiet it's gotten on this thread now that it's increasingly clear OP is basically right on the big one.

Potentially. Should GPUMAX stop paying out, I'd call the show over and done. I am perturbed by the delay, although it was counterproductive for Pirate to announce his move to close the operation before preparing for it. Right now it's wait-and-see. If you've been following #btcst you'd know that he hasn't disappeared, and has stated his willingness to sacrifice his own profit soon if he can't make progress with the initial plan. Talk is cheap, but we'll see.

As far as I'm concerned, Maged has been more disingenuous by proclaiming evidence that supposedly proves BTCS&T was a fraudulent operation, yet refusing to supply said evidence. If it does turn out that Pirate ran a scam, Micon and most of Team Ponzi were just on a crusade to save people from themselves, but Maged may have had sufficient material to establish proof. To me, that would be a lesser version of withholding the cure for a virulent plague that wipes out a large percentage of the population.
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August 27, 2012, 11:30:05 PM
 #1127

Weird how quiet it's gotten on this thread now that it's increasingly clear OP is basically right on the big one.

Potentially. Should GPUMAX stop paying out, I'd call the show over and done. I am perturbed by the delay, although it was counterproductive for Pirate to announce his move to close the operation before preparing for it. Right now it's wait-and-see. If you've been following #btcst you'd know that he hasn't disappeared, and has stated his willingness to sacrifice his own profit soon if he can't make progress with the initial plan. Talk is cheap, but we'll see.

As far as I'm concerned, Maged has been more disingenuous by proclaiming evidence that supposedly proves BTCS&T was a fraudulent operation, yet refusing to supply said evidence. If it does turn out that Pirate ran a scam, Micon and most of Team Ponzi were just on a crusade to save people from themselves, but Maged may have had sufficient material to establish proof. To me, that would be a lesser version of withholding the cure for a virulent plague that wipes out a large percentage of the population.

I actually asked Maged at one point to post it, because obviously, if there's something that can prove something besides hunches and coincidences, it should be brought to light.  He basically replied back about how he didn't have anything definite or something along those lines (my memory fails me, I'm looking for the thread/post).

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
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August 27, 2012, 11:37:37 PM
 #1128

Bet thread updated:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.0

No, I am not planning on selling the debt so there is no need to "mark to market".  I will either get BTC back or lose them.

If Pirate pays eveyone then I do stand to make a tidy profit.  If he does not pay everyone then I stand to lose a lot of my BTC.

dude you can't still be serious...

1)  BurtW, along with Payb.tc are co-conspirators in this scam.

2)  BurtW helped Pirateat40 funnel 100k's of BTC to his scam via PPT bonds.

3)  The arrogance and outright lies he spread make me sick.  I think he knew the whole time what was going on, never invested his own monies but wanted to make a % each week.  

4)  This "bet" thread that BurtW made is so laughable to update 1 week after Pirateat40 defaulted.  Obviously it's a locked thread because he would get destroyed in the thread (for not actually making the bet, for accruing interest based on if an obvious scammer returns monies he doesn't have)

5)  Let's all never forget when BurtW made his sig "No, BCST is not a Ponzi"

I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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August 27, 2012, 11:40:22 PM
 #1129

If Pirate pays eveyone then I do stand to make a tidy profit.  If he does not pay everyone then I stand to lose a lot of my BTC.

it was foretold:

...
Let's just list some of fallacies that have been routinely used and/or likely will be used shortly by team "pirate, the miracle worker" (and by other community members on other topics too, of course):
...
Argumentum ad misericordiam:
  "I did not murder my mother and father with an axe! Please don't find me guilty; I'm suffering enough through being an orphan.", "I lost so much money on ponzi and stupid bets, I am suffering enough, do not tell me that I am guilty of promoting and conspiring in a ponzi scheme and a scammer"
...

-
miscreanity
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August 27, 2012, 11:40:54 PM
 #1130

I actually asked Maged at one point to post it, because obviously, if there's something that can prove something besides hunches and coincidences, it should be brought to light.  He basically replied back about how he didn't have anything definite or something along those lines (my memory fails me, I'm looking for the thread/post).

I also have yet to get a response from him after asking about his 'proof' as well. As soon as I brought it up and suggested that evidence would change my stance, there were no more replies.
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August 27, 2012, 11:50:25 PM
 #1131

I actually asked Maged at one point to post it, because obviously, if there's something that can prove something besides hunches and coincidences, it should be brought to light.  He basically replied back about how he didn't have anything definite or something along those lines (my memory fails me, I'm looking for the thread/post).

I also have yet to get a response from him after asking about his 'proof' as well. As soon as I brought it up and suggested that evidence would change my stance, there were no more replies.

"Proof" only exists in mathematics; it isn't required in a court of law. There is plenty of evidence. And everyone knows it -- even you and your ilk, no matter how much you try to pretend.

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imsaguy
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August 27, 2012, 11:53:23 PM
 #1132

I actually asked Maged at one point to post it, because obviously, if there's something that can prove something besides hunches and coincidences, it should be brought to light.  He basically replied back about how he didn't have anything definite or something along those lines (my memory fails me, I'm looking for the thread/post).

I also have yet to get a response from him after asking about his 'proof' as well. As soon as I brought it up and suggested that evidence would change my stance, there were no more replies.

"Proof" only exists in mathematics; it isn't required in a court of law. There is plenty of evidence. And everyone knows it -- even you and your ilk, no matter how much you try to pretend.

That is what I was asking him to provide.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
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August 27, 2012, 11:59:15 PM
 #1133

Weird how quiet it's gotten on this thread now that it's increasingly clear OP is basically right on the big one.

Potentially. Should GPUMAX stop paying out, I'd call the show over and done. I am perturbed by the delay, although it was counterproductive for Pirate to announce his move to close the operation before preparing for it. Right now it's wait-and-see. If you've been following #btcst you'd know that he hasn't disappeared, and has stated his willingness to sacrifice his own profit soon if he can't make progress with the initial plan. Talk is cheap, but we'll see.

As far as I'm concerned, Maged has been more disingenuous by proclaiming evidence that supposedly proves BTCS&T was a fraudulent operation, yet refusing to supply said evidence. If it does turn out that Pirate ran a scam, Micon and most of Team Ponzi were just on a crusade to save people from themselves, but Maged may have had sufficient material to establish proof. To me, that would be a lesser version of withholding the cure for a virulent plague that wipes out a large percentage of the population.

1)  Positive signs that the Stockholm syndrome period is wearing off,  miscreanity finally entertained the idea that Pirate won't pay.

2)  Believe it or not, I have a track record of spending my time and energy to save other ppl I don't from scams.  I am driven to do this because it sickens me to see a scam actively trapping innocents, let alone a BTC version - that really pissed me off - bitcoin could change the world!  let's not fuck it up in it's relative infancy.

3) here is a fun spreadsheet and I did all the work for you:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah0rJ1eK8mwpdEs2MFRfbGQybGhNamo1aGhDSURaT1E

It's got a column of weeks, and a column that just multiplies the above week by 1.07

the fun facts, if you don't want to see all the numbers:

week 1 - Invest $100
Week 52 - $3152
end year 2 - $106,000+
end year 3 - $3.5M+
year 4 - $120M+
year 8 - you have all the money in the world

THATS why you can't pay 7% per week - you would have to pay out all the money in the world in 8 yrs if a guy invests $100



I'm flying FPV race drones these days. Check out my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MiconFPV
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August 27, 2012, 11:59:59 PM
 #1134

Don't you get it, imsaguy?

It's all over! Even the dumbest teenage "investors" are wise to the scam! It is pointless to move the goalposts now.

And now all that is left is to settle accounts in the legal system.

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August 28, 2012, 12:09:10 AM
 #1135

Congrats.  Go find the post, it hasn't been touched.  Maged even quoted it.

The people still reading the thread understand that whatever you say just doesn't matter. If it makes you feel better to keep up the charade, then please go on.

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August 28, 2012, 12:18:35 AM
 #1136

1)  Positive signs that the Stockholm syndrome period is wearing off,  miscreanity finally entertained the idea that Pirate won't pay.

For the entire duration of this debate, I've been of a mind that it's impossible to know one way or the other without concrete evidence. I still hold that stance.

3) here is a fun spreadsheet and I did all the work for you:

Pirate's operation has been ongoing for barely a year. If Pirate does end up paying out, you won't have any wiggle room to backtrack on what you've said; your reputation here will be shattered beyond repair.

You may do better pointing people to Albert Bartlett's lectures on exponential functions and letting them figure it out for themselves. The approach that was started with comes off as overly panicked and emotional when many simply won't listen in the first place. That's just part of the process known as life.
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August 28, 2012, 12:25:04 AM
 #1137

Bet thread updated:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.0

No, I am not planning on selling the debt so there is no need to "mark to market".  I will either get BTC back or lose them.

If Pirate pays eveyone then I do stand to make a tidy profit.  If he does not pay everyone then I stand to lose a lot of my BTC.

dude you can't still be serious...

1)  BurtW, along with Payb.tc are co-conspirators in this scam.

2)  BurtW helped Pirateat40 funnel 100k's of BTC to his scam via PPT bonds.

3)  The arrogance and outright lies he spread make me sick.  I think he knew the whole time what was going on, never invested his own monies but wanted to make a % each week.  

4)  This "bet" thread that BurtW made is so laughable to update 1 week after Pirateat40 defaulted.  Obviously it's a locked thread because he would get destroyed in the thread (for not actually making the bet, for accruing interest based on if an obvious scammer returns monies he doesn't have)

5)  Let's all never forget when BurtW made his sig "No, BCST is not a Ponzi"

The volume of the PPT bonds was nowhere near BTC100k. At any one time there was BTC12k in the system, plus the interest. Each week 3k went in and 3840 came out. Of all the passthroughs, the PPT bonds contributed the least to the growth of the ponzi.
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August 28, 2012, 12:31:58 AM
 #1138

For the entire duration of this debate, I've been of a mind that it's impossible to know one way or the other without concrete evidence. I still hold that stance.

Good to hear. Then you'll agree that the evidence has always been overwhelming and damning. The lack of any evidence to the contrary is just a bonus. Whatever stance you are "holding" is in the face of that and the extending interval of time that pirate is in default, by his own terms.

Quote
Pirate's operation has been ongoing for barely a year. If Pirate does end up paying out, you won't have any wiggle room to backtrack on what you've said; your reputation here will be shattered beyond repair.

Then Micon has nothing to worry about.

Pirate hasn't payed out. By his own terms, pirate has defaulted. The fact that the situation has progressed beyond just a manifest fraud to a clear default (the only possible outcome) is why the bitcoin market is valuing pirate's debt as worthless.

So, go tell it to the market. See if it will listen to you. Get back to us on it.

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August 28, 2012, 04:56:14 AM
 #1139


1)  BurtW, ...

3)  The arrogance and outright lies he spread make me sick.

All right Micon - that's a friend of mine you are speaking about. Do you have proof that BurtW has lied about anything? Please quote.

And what about your lies, hmmmm? Provide evidence for the following blind assertions you made in a single post:

"BurtW helped Pirateat40 funnel 100k's of BTC to his scam via PPT bonds" - hint - you've already been corrected in this very thread.

"never invested his own monies" - while I could be anyone claiming anything, I know this assertion to be false. But most importantly, where's your evidence? You do not have any, because you are lying. Making it up as you go along.

In the course of just a couple weeks, you've gone off uncountable times half-cocked with wild assertions that are provably false. With never a mea culpa, apology, or retraction. I think you mean well in general, but your buffoonery is casting a lot of collateral damage. Put that thing away before somebody really gets hurt.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
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August 28, 2012, 05:03:51 AM
 #1140

Stop waving that thing around, hahaha.  Cheesy
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