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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107893 times)
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August 30, 2012, 08:41:54 AM
 #1201

can you post the link to the podcast please. I enjoyed the last one.

1)  My podcast starts tonight at 7:00pm PST on DonkDown, I will be discussing this matter at length

2)  Matt and anyone else is welcome to call in.  Really hoping for bitlane. 

3)  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah0rJ1eK8mwpdEs2MFRfbGQybGhNamo1aGhDSURaT1E#gid=0  this should have been the proof posted to the question "why does 7%/wk have to be a scam?"  - simply put, if you invested $100 today in 8 yrs you would have all the money in the world.  Spreadsheet proves that statement.

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August 30, 2012, 08:44:39 AM
 #1202

Micon is a funny fucker. I just got finished listening to his latest podcast from eariler today and all I can say is, I am a fan.

I officially 'drank the kool-aid'....LOL

...and will be tuned in next time.

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August 30, 2012, 04:24:17 PM
 #1203

Micon is a funny fucker. I just got finished listening to his latest podcast from eariler today and all I can say is, I am a fan.

I officially 'drank the kool-aid'....LOL

...and will be tuned in next time.

Ty for the kind words.

You are welcomed / encouraged to call in, would love to talk to you about this matter next week.  I have this feeling you have interesting stories and would be a great guest.

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August 30, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
 #1204

Better get on it Black Pearl Investments is growing lol Need to put a stop to that before it makes more people drink the kool-aid lol

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August 30, 2012, 04:27:56 PM
 #1205

can you post the link to the podcast please. I enjoyed the last one.

1)  My podcast starts tonight at 7:00pm PST on DonkDown, I will be discussing this matter at length

2)  Matt and anyone else is welcome to call in.  Really hoping for bitlane. 

3)  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah0rJ1eK8mwpdEs2MFRfbGQybGhNamo1aGhDSURaT1E#gid=0  this should have been the proof posted to the question "why does 7%/wk have to be a scam?"  - simply put, if you invested $100 today in 8 yrs you would have all the money in the world.  Spreadsheet proves that statement.

http://www.donkdown.com/jon-aguiar-special-guest-donkdown-radio-reggiman-pokerati-dan-tangent/

not much bitcoin today but a good show if u like poker / scotch / go on a pretty good anti-republican centering on how the guy that gives the "we must protect traditional marriage" speech at the GOP convention might as well be screaming "Fuck them faggots"

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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August 30, 2012, 05:18:47 PM
 #1206

'NO !...WAIT !...Guantanamo Bay....the secret portal' was CLASSIC...lol

I nearly pissed my pants listening to that portion, as well as the typical Republican bashing, which I am a HUGE fan of...being a Canadian.

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August 30, 2012, 08:44:01 PM
 #1207

It still hasn't been conclusively shown to be a Ponzi, despite the accusations.
Can you conclusively show that it still hasn't been conclusively shown to be a Ponzi? Have you read every forum post? Checked every other piece of evidence? Traveled the world to ensure you didn't miss one shred of conceivable evidence? Maybe it has been conclusively shown that Pirate is a Ponzi.

(My point, of course, is that this "conclusively shown" bit is a red herring. People only bring out absurd standards like that when they don't like where the actual evidence leads.)

I won't draw conclusions without more information; everything I've seen regarding BS&T has been speculation so far.
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August 30, 2012, 10:13:40 PM
 #1208

Frankie & Maged - really?  you don't think this is his wallet? 

https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?address=1DkyBEKt5S2GDtv7aQw6rQepAvnsRyHoYM

I'll bet if you break down some of those large inputs you could correlate it with BTCtalk forum events + co-conspirator payments.  If payb.tc would come to the good side instead of Pirate as much personal info as he has on his accounts we may be able to answer this Q.

I think it's his.  It was built this year.  It is all that it could be.  It also makes sense he has 1M BTC on paper, owing like 70k BTC each week having 500k btc when he shut it down.  Add in a few principle requests and he decided to not pay that week or any future.

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August 30, 2012, 10:42:06 PM
 #1209

Ty for the kind words.

You are welcomed / encouraged to call in, would love to talk to you about this matter next week.  I have this feeling you have interesting stories and would be a great guest.

Is there a working RSS feed for the podcasts?  I tried the ones on your site but they both seem to end around May of this year.  I'd like to have the donkdown shows automatically downloaded alongside the other podcasts  I subscribe to.

(I tried http://www.donkdown.com/component/podcast/?view=feed&format=raw&catid=34 and http://www.donkdown.com/index.php?option=com_podcast&view=rss&format=rss&catid=34 (labelled 'other podcast readers' and 'rss feed' resp.))

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August 30, 2012, 11:53:28 PM
 #1210

Ty for the kind words.

You are welcomed / encouraged to call in, would love to talk to you about this matter next week.  I have this feeling you have interesting stories and would be a great guest.

Is there a working RSS feed for the podcasts?  I tried the ones on your site but they both seem to end around May of this year.  I'd like to have the donkdown shows automatically downloaded alongside the other podcasts  I subscribe to.

(I tried http://www.donkdown.com/component/podcast/?view=feed&format=raw&catid=34 and http://www.donkdown.com/index.php?option=com_podcast&view=rss&format=rss&catid=34 (labelled 'other podcast readers' and 'rss feed' resp.))

our RSS feeds are currently a mess.  In the market for a wordpress guy / very embarassing too Sad

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August 31, 2012, 12:04:33 AM
 #1211

Ty for the kind words.

You are welcomed / encouraged to call in, would love to talk to you about this matter next week.  I have this feeling you have interesting stories and would be a great guest.

Is there a working RSS feed for the podcasts?  I tried the ones on your site but they both seem to end around May of this year.  I'd like to have the donkdown shows automatically downloaded alongside the other podcasts  I subscribe to.

(I tried http://www.donkdown.com/component/podcast/?view=feed&format=raw&catid=34 and http://www.donkdown.com/index.php?option=com_podcast&view=rss&format=rss&catid=34 (labelled 'other podcast readers' and 'rss feed' resp.))

our RSS feeds are currently a mess.  In the market for a wordpress guy / very embarassing too Sad

Good old wordpress. 

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September 02, 2012, 10:56:15 AM
 #1212

So in the wake of the Pirate BCST debacle, there are still tons of scams running, so it's time to clean up everything:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105285.0


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September 08, 2012, 07:53:05 AM
 #1213

but Maged may have had sufficient material to establish proof. To me, that would be a lesser version of withholding the cure for a virulent plague that wipes out a large percentage of the population.

There is no cure for stupid.
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September 09, 2012, 07:00:59 PM
 #1214

Now I'm going to start feeling sorry for Micon.  I must be very stupid (as he noted above) and he is turning into a parody of what he vainly tried to prevent.

(yes - this is as close as I get to trolling - but this has turned into one of the more entertaining threads in my household.  i should get MNW and Phinneas to look in, or even LouxGaroux for some more serious dissection of the thread.)

Must be a real pain in the arse to realise that real economic activity can deliver 2%/week or more.  On that basis, Micon shouldn't be in the bitcoin world at all.

Very amusing post!

In the last week, almost all of the 2%+ "funds" have turned out to be frauds, no? And many of them were rated quite favorably by the starfish, no?

What's left?
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September 09, 2012, 10:54:29 PM
 #1215

Is mybitcointrade really a ponzi? I mean its a stock market like glbse and it looks like they were able to attract some well known names to runs securities with them. bitcoin-24 for example. So youre sure its a scam? All these websites are owned by one scammer or the owners are scammed somehow to use this instead glbse? Or do you think they only are attracted to give the website a legit view?

If so... wouldnt it be good to buy shares and contact the website owner whose shares you own so that he knows who you are even when the website turns scam or something so that dividends can be paid even then?

I dont see the ponzi. Even the security of mybitcointrade.com itself has dividends that are as low that i dont think of a ponzi at first thought.

 

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September 09, 2012, 11:06:26 PM
 #1216

Is mybitcointrade really a ponzi? I mean its a stock market like glbse and it looks like they were able to attract some well known names to runs securities with them. bitcoin-24 for example. So youre sure its a scam? All these websites are owned by one scammer or the owners are scammed somehow to use this instead glbse? Or do you think they only are attracted to give the website a legit view?

If so... wouldnt it be good to buy shares and contact the website owner whose shares you own so that he knows who you are even when the website turns scam or something so that dividends can be paid even then?

I dont see the ponzi. Even the security of mybitcointrade.com itself has dividends that are as low that i dont think of a ponzi at first thought.
It perfectly matches the Stock Generation style of Ponzi scheme. Where do you think the funds to pay off investors are coming from? There's no evidence of any legitimate investments. And when the price of a security they offer decreases, what evidence is there that this price decrease came from a legitimate investment loss as opposed to them just deciding to pay less?

(A Stock Generation style Ponzi scheme is one in which made up "funds" are sold to investors. The operator periodically raises the price of the "funds" as if they were actual stocks representing companies doing well. They pay "dividends" too, out of the money gained from people buying the "funds" on a schedule picked by the operator solely to encourage investment and not based on any actual investment profits. Then one day, the operator just drops the price of the "funds" and keeps people's money. Any operation whose terms specifically permit the operator to run this scheme using "funds" whose prices are set by the operator and whose gains and losses don't reflect any demonstrated actual change in the actual value of anything can reasonably be assumed to be this scheme. There is no actual investment. Generally, these are claimed to be gambling and not investment to try to avoid legal consequences. The operator will generally claim that he never said there was any actual investment and that he fully held up his side of the bargain as he had promised.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Generation


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September 09, 2012, 11:29:30 PM
 #1217

So you say the websites that have securities there arent real? I mean that stockprices drop looks quite normal to me when the dividends drop. And i see the same at glbse too. Its simple because the dividends only bring break even after years normally. But mining projects like pyramining have a break even at 10 months. So the shareprices drop until the value is worth more to buy for the dividends paid. That has nothing to do with the business behind doing well when the dividends arent going down too much. Its only that there are better investments. So i dont see fully where the ponzihints are. The break evens are mostly worse than with projects at glbse. A ponzi really would avoid this i believe.

On the other hand... why isnt glbse listed here? I mean both sites seems to have independent securityowners. Or does any of the sites admins claim they dont work together with mybitcointrade?

Edit: I see the lists with 3% per week and so on in their thread. That looks like ponzi for real. But i dont know what it has to do with their website. I even dont see this offer at their website. Im looking at https://www.mybitcointrade.com... and there i only see a stock exchange similar to glbse.com. But messages like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81357.msg1167601#msg1167601 i dont understand because i dont see it on the actual website.

 

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September 10, 2012, 01:42:04 AM
 #1218

Now I'm going to start feeling sorry for Micon.  I must be very stupid (as he noted above) and he is turning into a parody of what he vainly tried to prevent.

(yes - this is as close as I get to trolling - but this has turned into one of the more entertaining threads in my household.  i should get MNW and Phinneas to look in, or even LouxGaroux for some more serious dissection of the thread.)

Must be a real pain in the arse to realise that real economic activity can deliver 2%/week or more.  On that basis, Micon shouldn't be in the bitcoin world at all.

Very amusing post!

In the last week, almost all of the 2%+ "funds" have turned out to be frauds, no? And many of them were rated quite favorably by the starfish, no?

What's left?

Its hard to tell the difference between a liquidity crunch and a ponzi. Lots of the deposit programmes lent the money out to people who invested it in pirate and now cant pay depositors their funds. They may not have invested directly in pirate but their customers did and a massive amount of bad loans will cause the service to go out of business. I guess they didnt account for the risk of this happening.

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September 10, 2012, 11:35:42 AM
 #1219

They may not have invested directly in pirate but their customers did and a massive amount of bad loans will cause the service to go out of business. I guess they didnt account for the risk of this happening.

But thats the same with glbse. There are many pirate pass through shares that now cant pay anymore. But thats the risk of the investor only. At both websites. (At least thats real investors risk. Not like in europe where investors that invested in highly risky shares at the banks and lost, now are saved with the countries money so that the banks dont close.) So i dont see why it makes the one website a ponzi and the other website is only a stock exchange. I mean its investors risk at both websites isnt it?
At least everyone investing in a loan without knowing what its used for took this risk on its own. I wouldnt ever do it but i dont see why a share of bitcoin-24.com would be scam too. I think that would only be the case when the whole website from the start would be a scam. But i dont see this sign yet. I think the admin of the website wouldnt get much from offering shares with the intend to scam afterwards. The securityowner needs to take out the invested money so he can start his business. The dividends are paid to investors and they take it out or invest again. So the only money in the system that can be stolen are bitcoins that arent invested. Because they can be stolen maybe. Selling shares by the admin wouldnt give him more money. And i dont think that investors will let lie much bitcoins unused there.

But please convince me. I dont want to get scammed for sure.

 

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September 10, 2012, 12:26:37 PM
 #1220

Now I'm going to start feeling sorry for Micon.  I must be very stupid (as he noted above) and he is turning into a parody of what he vainly tried to prevent.

(yes - this is as close as I get to trolling - but this has turned into one of the more entertaining threads in my household.  i should get MNW and Phinneas to look in, or even LouxGaroux for some more serious dissection of the thread.)

Must be a real pain in the arse to realise that real economic activity can deliver 2%/week or more.  On that basis, Micon shouldn't be in the bitcoin world at all.

Very amusing post!

In the last week, almost all of the 2%+ "funds" have turned out to be frauds, no? And many of them were rated quite favorably by the starfish, no?

What's left?

Its hard to tell the difference between a liquidity crunch and a ponzi. Lots of the deposit programmes lent the money out to people who invested it in pirate and now cant pay depositors their funds. They may not have invested directly in pirate but their customers did and a massive amount of bad loans will cause the service to go out of business. I guess they didnt account for the risk of this happening.

I'm not saying that all of these were scams (although many appear to have been feeding scams), nor am I saying they are all insolvent (although I would bet that most are).  My point is that there was never a good reason for anyone to pay above 100% APR.

Patrick himself has announced he will reduce his nominal rate to 1% a month, and he might be one of the "good guys" insofar that he might not actually be insolvent (although I wouldn't be shocked if he is).

If the former dividends of these funds were generated by loaning money to people who plowed it into a Ponzi scheme, was Patrick right or wrong in the post I quoted?  I don't think this is a hard question.  Outside of currencies entering hyperinflation, there's no reason for any borrower to pay 100%+ APR. These rates were unhealthy artifacts of a marketplace crowded out by scams.
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