Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network

[loveyouforever]

I am so curious why there is so less activity in this thread.

tau intimidates a lot of players.
i even remember then ethereum's marketing tried to explain that ethereum is a supercomputer like zennet..

You guys will succeed sooner or later, it takes time for people to realize the value of this project.

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[NoveltyLab]

The masses need this. It is unfortunate that the general hype market is in a slump right now . Until the next Bitcoin bull run and subsequent spike in new genuinely interested users in the space... the more technology that gets built - the better!

[wosch76]

is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

[ohad]

is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

[wosch76]

is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

presale seems a little cumbersome to me.
on which exchange(s) will it be traded?

[ohad]

is the presale still running?
is/will there be an exchange for agoras?

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

presale seems a little cumbersome to me.
on which exchange(s) will it be traded?

I will publish the full details soon

[CrazyEyes]

People want to "get in" without knowing what this really is.

Well the whitepaper.. its a mess really. No way near a scientific report. http://tauchain.org/tauchain.pdf

I mean, its a paper consisting of acronyms and confusing logic without any references. However, that might fool the bitcointalk community. People invest in things they dont understand all the time. Funding... well they want 2 million dollars. Someone wrote that this "intimidates a lot of players". With that whitepaper i guess you do, for the worse.

EDIT: I see that the quality of the whitepaper already have been discussed earlier in this thread.

[ohad]

Yes, presale is still running http://www.idni.org/pre-sale
Exchange will be soon (few days I'd guess)

Do you mean the presale will continue through an exchange or have you decided to burn the unsold presale tokens & open trading?

We will continue to sell coins also in the exchange,
until the real Agoras coins will go out, in which case, we destroy all unsold coins.

[ohad]

People want to "get in" without knowing what this really is.

Well the whitepaper.. its a mess really. No way near a scientific report. http://tauchain.org/tauchain.pdf

I mean, its a paper consisting of acronyms and confusing logic without any references. However, that might fool the bitcointalk community. People invest in things they dont understand all the time. Funding... well they want 2 million dollars. Someone wrote that this "intimidates a lot of players". With that whitepaper i guess you do, for the worse.

EDIT: I see that the quality of the whitepaper already have been discussed earlier in this thread.

That's right, the paper was written quickly and is not of high quality. It is not aiming to be scientifically rigorous.
But it doesn't change the fact we know what we're doing as can be even seen from that not-well-written paper, or other of many things I wrote about tauchain (www.idni.org/blog), or the working automated theorem prover I already wrote (github.com/naturalog/tauchain).
So if you'll get deeper into the materials you'll see that it's a very serious project, and we definitely know what we're talking about and do fulfill our promises. If you still have doubts or something more solid to tell, please ask.

[gjhiggins]

That's right, the paper was written quickly and is not of high quality. It is not aiming to be scientifically rigorous.

So rewrite it to the appropriate quality. I think by now you might be in a position to acknowledge that stance is doing the project more harm than good.

But it doesn't change the fact we know what we're doing as can be even seen from that not-well-written paper, or other of many things I wrote about tauchain (www.idni.org/blog), or the working automated theorem prover I already wrote (github.com/naturalog/tauchain).
So if you'll get deeper into the materials you'll see that it's a very serious project, and we definitely know what we're talking about and do fulfill our promises. If you still have doubts or something more solid to tell, please ask.

You're inviting us to adopt the position that the relatively low quality of the white paper stands as testament to the fact that the team members know what they are doing? tl;dr it's just that you're misunderstood. Yeah, right.

There are some unforced errors in your writing which suggest that this degree of confidence might be misplaced, e.g. “RDF family which are extremely human readable”. There are lots of qualities openly credited to RDF but “extremely human readable” isn't one of them. You might well hold a personal opinion in RDF's favour but that doesn't provide any evidential support for the claim. And if you're careless enough to allow that through, then who knows what other misconceptions are perhaps running rife through the unclearly-written text.

“So if you'll get deeper into the materials” <- replay that back at leisure, see if it'd work for you. It's a very familiar (and woefully misconceived) tactic to shift responsibility to the reader.

It's the team's responsibility to articulate the project, leaving it as an exercise for the reader will not suffice. My father taught me: “If a man doesn't understand, it’s because he hasn’t been told properly”. I've found it a solid principle to observe if you're trying to work with people to get things done.

Serious is as serious does. Making overweening claims for the tech should be avoided for two reasons: i) they're unnecessary and ii) they undermine the effort.


Cheers

Graham

[tyz]

finally, a real promising coin without any ico and simple algo. i like the idea behind the coin. will definetely watch it. good luck!

[ohad]

That's right, the paper was written quickly and is not of high quality. It is not aiming to be scientifically rigorous.

So rewrite it to the appropriate quality. I think by now you might be in a position to acknowledge that stance is doing the project more harm than good.

But it doesn't change the fact we know what we're doing as can be even seen from that not-well-written paper, or other of many things I wrote about tauchain (www.idni.org/blog), or the working automated theorem prover I already wrote (github.com/naturalog/tauchain).
So if you'll get deeper into the materials you'll see that it's a very serious project, and we definitely know what we're talking about and do fulfill our promises. If you still have doubts or something more solid to tell, please ask.

You're inviting us to adopt the position that the relatively low quality of the white paper stands as testament to the fact that the team members know what they are doing? tl;dr it's just that you're misunderstood. Yeah, right.

Is that what I said?
I invite asking all hard questions, and definitely do not expect anyone to just believe me.
There are many materials and there is also a lot of code, and I'm basically doing it all by myself, so one cannot expect I'll be able to have perfect materials at any point of time (add to that we're not well-funded).
Nevertheless, the idea for itself is completely rigorous (far to mention - honest), and I'll be very glad with people trying to tackle it.

There are some unforced errors in your writing which suggest that this degree of confidence might be misplaced, e.g. “RDF family which are extremely human readable”. There are lots of qualities openly credited to RDF but “extremely human readable” isn't one of them. You might well hold a personal opinion in RDF's favour but that doesn't provide any evidential support for the claim. And if you're careless enough to allow that through, then who knows what other misconceptions are perhaps running rife through the unclearly-written text.

Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable. But Notation3? NQuads? The whole SPO notation? Sorry but I really have to disagree with you on this point. I don't think that other existing language competes with the human readability and simplicity of the subject-predicate-object structure. And if there is, tell me, and we'll try to add dependent type semantics of it, and it might be another frontend to tau.

“So if you'll get deeper into the materials” <- replay that back at leisure, see if it'd work for you. It's a very familiar (and woefully misconceived) tactic to shift responsibility to the reader.

Please tell me another "tactic" other than referring to existing materials and answering questions.
So you claim I should put less time in dev and more on docs? For how long? The next month?
Did you read the new docs btw? At http://www.idni.org/blog or linked in my comments here.

It's the team's responsibility to articulate the project, leaving it as an exercise for the reader will not suffice. My father taught me: “If a man doesn't understand, it’s because he hasn’t been told properly”. I've found it a solid principle to observe if you're trying to work with people to get things done.

I don't blame anyone for not understanding, it is indeed a concept which is very hard to understand, and it took me a lot of time (I'm not the inventor of the idea, to remind). But soon tau client will be ready and people could touch and feel. Professionally related people like you can join the IRC channel and get instructions how to run themselves the prover I wrote. I'm sure such will give you much appreciation to what we have to far.
This of course has nothing to do with the Agoras project and the presale. Tau is totally free and equal, and doesn't even have a coin. Agoras will be developed over tau. So the hard part - tau - people will get to work with soon and see what it's all about.

Serious is as serious does. Making overweening claims for the tech should be avoided for two reasons: i) they're unnecessary and ii) they undermine the effort.

Please show me *one* overwhelming and not serious claim I claimed.

[gjhiggins]

Is that what I said?

Effectively, yes.

Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable.

Ah, you are working to an idiosyncratic definition of of the term “human readable” that I don't share.

nm.

Cheers

Graham

[ohad]

Is that what I said?

Effectively, yes.

Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable.

Ah, you are working to an idiosyncratic definition of of the term “human readable” that I don't share.

nm.

Cheers

Graham

Sorry, I can't understand your logic, and it doesn't seem you're willing to make me understand. Which is fine.

[tobeaj2mer01]

Is that what I said?

Effectively, yes.

Well.. XML-RDF, OIL/DAML etc. are not human readable.

Ah, you are working to an idiosyncratic definition of of the term “human readable” that I don't share.

nm.

Cheers

Graham

I keep an eye on this project from the very beginning(it's Zennet->Xennet->Tau-Chain), this is a serious team with professional tech guys, but I think maybe they lack of a little bit of marketing activity, that's very this very promising project is so low-key not like Ethereum. But if you invest in this project, you can get more profit than Ethereum.
BTW, I am not a team-member of this project just an professional investor.

[NILIcoin]

 ...My father taught me: “If a man doesn't understand, it’s because he hasn’t been told properly”. I've found it a solid principle to observe if you're trying to work with people to get things done.

Both you and your father should have asked a women....

The things Ohad and the team are doing are indeed  in the framework that require deep conceptual understanding. In the process of creating the "tools" to built a building one can not comprehend, it is very hard to describe the tool itself and how it will work.
One need some imagination and the desire to understand and learn while trusting some intuition.
    

[ohad]

Dear Friends,

I'd like to announce that from this moment, Agoras intermediate tokens are being traded in https://masterxchange.com/market.php?currency=msctau

Please note that there are many unsold coins (+90%) and we keep selling through the exchange, so expect a high supply of coins for now. Before the final Agoras coins will go out, we will destroy all unsold coins (as promised long ago), and the trade will "get to normal" without massive amount of coins being sold by us.

Recall that there are 42M intermediate tokens, representing 100% of all future Agoras coins. Agoras won't have creation of new coins, but all of its coins will be generated upon genesis and delivered to their owners, either right away or in a slow release in order not to flood the market. If we pick the slow release method, everyone with no exceptions will be subject to that constraint.

At this opportunity I'll mention that HolyTransactions.com, an online wallet service, began to support our tokens.
Sales term and conditions appear at http://www.idni.org

[jasemoney]

Jumping in randomly, I used to watch in #zennet and still follow Tau lightly. Very interesting evolution from Decentralized Supercomputing idea to Decentralized Apps.

First, Nice interview here: http://cointelegraph.com/news/115118/tau-chain-a-decentralized-app-store-with-greater-flexibility-than-ethereum

2nd, Are you moving all your coins for sale to masterxchange.com or still doing some of the presale at http://www.idni.org/pre-sale

3rd, are our options for securing purchased pre-sale coins just to leave them on masterxchange.com or move them to HolyTransactions.com?

4th, If you were to sell for example only half (21M) intermediate tokens rather than the full 42M, would holders end up with 2x Agoras coins, or would the Agoras total coin count be reduced.

5th, Has the price been a static .0006 since you began presale?

Thanks in advance,
-Jase

[johny08]

the next ethereum to ipo.

i invested one btc in eth and think to make here the same

this project seems not to be supported so much by talented people as eth and is repeating what already there but little demand at all, so good bless you with success. you will need it.

[ohad]

Hi Jase!

2nd, Are you moving all your coins for sale to masterxchange.com or still doing some of the presale at http://www.idni.org/pre-sale

Not all coins are there, and it is still possible to purchase the old way by emailing me or leaving a message on idni.org.

3rd, are our options for securing purchased pre-sale coins just to leave them on masterxchange.com or move them to HolyTransactions.com?

There are more omnicoin (formerly mastercoin) wallets, an online one is omniwallet.org. Furthermore, the address is nothing but a bitcoin address, so its private key can be kept in any bitcoin-compatible way.

4th, If you were to sell for example only half (21M) intermediate tokens rather than the full 42M, would holders end up with 2x Agoras coins, or would the Agoras total coin count be reduced.

All unsold coins will be destroyed upon the real coins' genesis. Therefore, if say half is destroyed, whoever bought before that will get twice in percents of total coins as if all coins were sold.

5th, Has the price been a static .0006 since you began presale?

The price is still calculated according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838