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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 280388 times)
YNWA2806
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March 03, 2016, 06:27:39 AM
 #381

I keep hearing the phrase "if not all tokens were to be sold"..where exactly one can buy Agora for money/btc other than bittrex??
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ohad
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March 03, 2016, 06:28:39 AM
 #382

I keep hearing the phrase "if not all tokens were to be sold"..where exactly one can buy Agora for money/btc other than bittrex??

from me directly by email ohad at idni.org

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 03, 2016, 12:52:34 PM
 #383

I keep hearing the phrase "if not all tokens were to be sold"..where exactly one can buy Agora for money/btc other than bittrex??

from me directly by email ohad at idni.org
This is written up on indi.org on the presale page.

$MAID & $BTC other than that some short hodls and some long held garbage.
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March 03, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
 #384


Hello Ohad!
After taking a look at the information about your project I got some doubts:
This is a super decentralized computer?
Artificial intelligence?
A new network of decentralized internet?
Or is it all together and mixed?
I'm sorry, the question is that I am a layman, and the information is in a very complex level.
Thanks in advance for your attention and success in this endeavor!  Cheesy
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March 03, 2016, 02:56:21 PM
 #385


Hello Ohad!
After taking a look at the information about your project I got some doubts:
This is a super decentralized computer?
Artificial intelligence?
A new network of decentralized internet?
Or is it all together and mixed?
I'm sorry, the question is that I am a layman, and the information is in a very complex level.
Thanks in advance for your attention and success in this endeavor!  Cheesy

It can be all of them. Tau is a general-purpose programming language, enabled with built-in blockchain and using a special kind of logic.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 07, 2016, 12:29:53 PM
 #386

Where can I find a rich list of AGRS token holders? I mean distribution of tokens among wallets. I want to see how much it is centralized in that terms.

Try P2P serverless websites    << ZeroNet >>    No blockings, No censorship, dynamic content.    Forums, blogs, trackers, etc.
P2P-вебсайты без сервера    << ZeroNet >>    Без блокировок, без цензуры, динамич. контент.  Форумы, блоги, трекеры.
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March 07, 2016, 01:12:48 PM
 #387

Hello,

How is it possible to write code into Tau chain?
What language would it be? is it JS?
Is there any documentation where I can find that info?
I am really interested in programming into this chain,
Please let me know how to do so,

Thanks!
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March 07, 2016, 06:46:12 PM
 #388

What was the reason for Tau-Chain not having a coin? How will it be decentralized?
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March 08, 2016, 12:52:38 AM
 #389

Where can I find a rich list of AGRS token holders? I mean distribution of tokens among wallets. I want to see how much it is centralized in that terms.

on every omni block explorer (e.g. omnichest), asset id is 35.
also on bittrex it shows distribution among their account owners.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 08, 2016, 12:54:08 AM
 #390

Hello,

How is it possible to write code into Tau chain?
What language would it be? is it JS?
Is there any documentation where I can find that info?
I am really interested in programming into this chain,
Please let me know how to do so,

Thanks!

the language is RDF language family. a good intro is https://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/Primer.html
but those languages, as well as js, are Turing complete, which is bad at the scope of decentralized apps (and even beyond).
we give them a different type-system (logic) that makes it consistent, which is good, and enables tau's far-reaching abilities.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
ohad
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March 08, 2016, 12:55:14 AM
 #391

What was the reason for Tau-Chain not having a coin? How will it be decentralized?

Tau as for itself doesn't need a coin. it is a programming language having a built-in root blockchain, so coins can be created over it.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 08, 2016, 10:40:21 AM
 #392

Somehow I didn't get it.
So far you comunicate this, correct me, if I am wrong:
You are selling the 42000000 coins to a certain point and then the rest of it will "burned".

But when is that point? How much percentage will an investor get? This feels so insecure...

No offense, but we are in a "decentralized" environment, where you don't just trust.
And to help you see it suspect:
If you didn't release for years you could sell and sell forever without delivering. This is comparable with a IPO of 5+ Million atm. With only a promise...
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March 08, 2016, 11:09:49 AM
 #393

Somehow I didn't get it.
So far you comunicate this, correct me, if I am wrong:
You are selling the 42000000 coins to a certain point and then the rest of it will "burned".

But when is that point? How much percentage will an investor get? This feels so insecure...

No offense, but we are in a "decentralized" environment, where you don't just trust.
And to help you see it suspect:
If you didn't release for years you could sell and sell forever without delivering. This is comparable with a IPO of 5+ Million atm. With only a promise...


I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to.
If someone bought 1% out of 42M tokens, and we sell only half of the tokens and destroy the other half, then that buyer will hold 2% of total coins after the destruction. So investors know how much they get. The only 'bad' part is that they can get even more.
Predicting when exactly the product will be ready is beyond my abilities. Some scammers, though, are very good in naming dates Wink
How else can we do it better? Please tell.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 08, 2016, 11:40:17 AM
 #394

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to.
If someone bought 1% out of 42M tokens, and we sell only half of the tokens and destroy the other half, then that buyer will hold 2% of total coins after the destruction. So investors know how much they get. The only 'bad' part is that they can get even more.
Predicting when exactly the product will be ready is beyond my abilities. Some scammers, though, are very good in naming dates Wink
How else can we do it better? Please tell.

If you want to talk about scamming: What exactly proofs, that you are not scamming? No date is definitely worse than miscalculating and postponing...

First: There is no need to predict precise release dates, but at least a deadline, where you can be sure, you can deliver "something". And you can set the deadline with a worst case prediction as well.
But even, if you can't make ANY estimate:
There is absolutely no need for the IPO deadline to be at release. Trading the tokens is still possible, so anyone can jump in later.

In the current constellation you have all the cards in your hand (up to 5 million dollar and then still 3%), have no need to do good, no need to hurry, no need even to deliver at all, no need to ... whatever.
We can just sit and wait. And before release our funds are locked with no (or a ridiculous) ROI.

If you ended the IPO and got your percentage, we could be sure, you have to do something and do it good, because your percentage is depending on what you do. The market can choose its own market cap. (Now you choose it more or less, because its too high for a promise).

And just to make you understand, that I really like to grant you a lot of money for your work:
I think 3% is way to less. Maintenance and marketing has to be done by you also after release. Otherwise everything will just die...
But your amount should depend on your doings, not on your promises...
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March 08, 2016, 12:11:49 PM
 #395

I think the team of 3% is too little, if IPO issued 420,000 hands team should take 420 000, the total number of 840,000. There must be a long-term development.

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March 08, 2016, 12:25:55 PM
 #396

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to.
If someone bought 1% out of 42M tokens, and we sell only half of the tokens and destroy the other half, then that buyer will hold 2% of total coins after the destruction. So investors know how much they get. The only 'bad' part is that they can get even more.
Predicting when exactly the product will be ready is beyond my abilities. Some scammers, though, are very good in naming dates Wink
How else can we do it better? Please tell.

If you want to talk about scamming: What exactly proofs, that you are not scamming? No date is definitely worse than miscalculating and postponing...

First: There is no need to predict precise release dates, but at least a deadline, where you can be sure, you can deliver "something". And you can set the deadline with a worst case prediction as well.
But even, if you can't make ANY estimate:
There is absolutely no need for the IPO deadline to be at release. Trading the tokens is still possible, so anyone can jump in later.

In the current constellation you have all the cards in your hand (up to 5 million dollar and then still 3%), have no need to do good, no need to hurry, no need even to deliver at all, no need to ... whatever.
We can just sit and wait. And before release our funds are locked with no (or a ridiculous) ROI.

If you ended the IPO and got your percentage, we could be sure, you have to do something and do it good, because your percentage is depending on what you do. The market can choose its own market cap. (Now you choose it more or less, because its too high for a promise).

And just to make you understand, that I really like to grant you a lot of money for your work:
I think 3% is way to less. Maintenance and marketing has to be done by you also after release. Otherwise everything will just die...
But your amount should depend on your doings, not on your promises...

I did give rough estimations several times ("few months" for tau and ~1y for end of presale and agoras ready).
Also consider that a rigid deadline for the sale, as well as finishing the product as quickly as possible, isn't necessarily good for buyers. Tau's success depends not only in doing a perfect dev before genesis, but also in the dev after genesis, which will be done by the first users (cf. http://www.idni.org/blog/decentralized-democracy) and as more aware participants we'll have there, the more the probability to get better rules of the network to the long run (taking into account that tau will help us to "do order" among all opinions etc. as it is a platform for collaborative dev).
I did give a legal promise to deliver the promised products no matter what, so "not delivering at all" as you mentioned is not an option that I left opened.
Buyer's funds aren't locked by any means. People can liquidate on bittrex (poloniex too soon), indeed low volumes for now, but I guess it'll get more attention with time. We're working on a new website and another new videos, and obviously the crowd out there only begins to understand what it's all about, but there's still a way.
My need to "do good, hurry, deliver" etc. is way beyond even what I promised: my whole reputation as a dev is on that. I can't allow myself to publicly turn into the worst dev ever..
I have a clear incentive to give things the best possible timing. I want the network and its value to grow exactly as the buyers want.
As for proofs I'm not scamming, name it. Which additional proofs can I bring?
As for IPO deadlines, we do want people to have some kind of incentive to buy early, don't we? After Agoras will be ready, it will have the value of the real goods it offers (programmers, servers etc) and not only "value of belief" as in btc for example.

As for 3% being too little, see a few comments above, if we won't sell all coins then we'll practically have more than 3%. Of course it all has to make sense, and we'll reassess the situation in a later stage (later than when tau is ready, still before agoras is ready). Nevertheless, offering a currency with an intrinsic value of markets with skyrocketing demand and size of trillions (as two examples: code-for-money and rent hw) and offering the best alternative by far than any existing alternative, 3% might be a terribly high number.
All in all, those considerations also has to take into account the specific nature of developing tau&agoras after their first version. We develop them altogether and we'll have the code reuse and code-for-money abilities, to mention only two. Also adding/modifying rules is so much easier than with other languages. So I really think that when looking at the big picture, things aren't tuned so bad.

Will be glad for more thoughts/questions.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
ohad
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March 08, 2016, 12:27:54 PM
 #397

by the way, as many can testify, if you raise an idea which I find good, I never hesitate changing the plans right away in order to do the right thing.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 08, 2016, 12:33:04 PM
 #398

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to.
If someone bought 1% out of 42M tokens, and we sell only half of the tokens and destroy the other half, then that buyer will hold 2% of total coins after the destruction. So investors know how much they get. The only 'bad' part is that they can get even more.
Predicting when exactly the product will be ready is beyond my abilities. Some scammers, though, are very good in naming dates Wink
How else can we do it better? Please tell.

If you want to talk about scamming: What exactly proofs, that you are not scamming? No date is definitely worse than miscalculating and postponing...

First: There is no need to predict precise release dates, but at least a deadline, where you can be sure, you can deliver "something". And you can set the deadline with a worst case prediction as well.
But even, if you can't make ANY estimate:
There is absolutely no need for the IPO deadline to be at release. Trading the tokens is still possible, so anyone can jump in later.

In the current constellation you have all the cards in your hand (up to 5 million dollar and then still 3%), have no need to do good, no need to hurry, no need even to deliver at all, no need to ... whatever.
We can just sit and wait. And before release our funds are locked with no (or a ridiculous) ROI.

If you ended the IPO and got your percentage, we could be sure, you have to do something and do it good, because your percentage is depending on what you do. The market can choose its own market cap. (Now you choose it more or less, because its too high for a promise).

And just to make you understand, that I really like to grant you a lot of money for your work:
I think 3% is way to less. Maintenance and marketing has to be done by you also after release. Otherwise everything will just die...
But your amount should depend on your doings, not on your promises...

I did give rough estimations several times ("few months" for tau and ~1y for end of presale and agoras ready).
Also consider that a rigid deadline for the sale, as well as finishing the product as quickly as possible, isn't necessarily good for buyers. Tau's success depends not only in doing a perfect dev before genesis, but also in the dev after genesis, which will be done by the first users (cf. http://www.idni.org/blog/decentralized-democracy) and as more aware participants we'll have there, the more the probability to get better rules of the network to the long run (taking into account that tau will help us to "do order" among all opinions etc. as it is a platform for collaborative dev).
I did give a legal promise to deliver the promised products no matter what, so "not delivering at all" as you mentioned is not an option that I left opened.
Buyer's funds aren't locked by any means. People can liquidate on bittrex (poloniex too soon), indeed low volumes for now, but I guess it'll get more attention with time. We're working on a new website and another new videos, and obviously the crowd out there only begins to understand what it's all about, but there's still a way.
My need to "do good, hurry, deliver" etc. is way beyond even what I promised: my whole reputation as a dev is on that. I can't allow myself to publicly turn into the worst dev ever..
I have a clear incentive to give things the best possible timing. I want the network and its value to grow exactly as the buyers want.
As for proofs I'm not scamming, name it. Which additional proofs can I bring?
As for IPO deadlines, we do want people to have some kind of incentive to buy early, don't we? After Agoras will be ready, it will have the value of the real goods it offers (programmers, servers etc) and not only "value of belief" as in btc for example.

As for 3% being too little, see a few comments above, if we won't sell all coins then we'll practically have more than 3%. Of course it all has to make sense, and we'll reassess the situation in a later stage (later than when tau is ready, still before agoras is ready). Nevertheless, offering a currency with an intrinsic value of markets with skyrocketing demand and size of trillions (as two examples: code-for-money and rent hw) and offering the best alternative by far than any existing alternative, 3% might be a terribly high number.
All in all, those considerations also has to take into account the specific nature of developing tau&agoras after their first version. We develop them altogether and we'll have the code reuse and code-for-money abilities, to mention only two. Also adding/modifying rules is so much easier than with other languages. So I really think that when looking at the big picture, things aren't tuned so bad.

Will be glad for more thoughts/questions.

1 year IPO? I am out...
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March 08, 2016, 12:34:42 PM
 #399

1 year IPO? I am out...

only now one can buy in ridiculous prices. the current price won't stay for long. especially after tau is ready

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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March 08, 2016, 12:39:00 PM
 #400

1 year IPO? I am out...

only now one can buy in ridiculous prices. the current price won't stay for long. especially after tau is ready

These "ridculous prices" have a 5 million market cap for a theory. The prices stayed like this for months already. If any interest in the project came, you would flood the market with your coins, that you still have. There is no, i repeat NO use, to invest now.
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