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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 280680 times)
ohad
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April 04, 2016, 08:04:20 PM
 #681

still cant close buy order at bittrex !!! Angry Angry

i'm waiting for omni dev now for the distribution script. once it'll be ready, bittrex will get back alive right away. no latter than tomorrow, i hope

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April 05, 2016, 04:09:48 AM
 #682

The principle 'first do no harm' if applied in law gives a framework that provides for desirable long-term positive outcomes. For example the expression, 'we don't negotiate with terrorists' is not beneficial to those held captive, but removes motive for such heinous crimes into the future, saving many more lives and heartbreak. The way that common law has developed over time, is similar with respect to 'receiving stolen goods'. It takes away the ability to profit from such situations by giving the liability for the loss to the receiver of stolen goods. Therefore if we seek 'to do no harm', we seek to enact society's standards of preventing harm now and into the future.

If Ohad was to request all tokens 'received as stolen goods' be returned within seven days, there is legal precedent in the fairness of this action. If Ohad were then to say that though a receiver of stolen goods is to bear the loss in accordance with the laws of our land, however I am prepared to make a goodwill gesture by paying an amount equal to the cost in btc - This would be incredibly generous on Ohad's part. If further to this Ohad was to give a bounty, if returned in seven days, Foerster suggested 15%, then that would be way over and above what anyone could expect as a receiver of stolen goods.

To empower the receiver of stolen goods with a beneficiary interest, has been proven time and again over many centuries in the development of common law to be morally destructive.

Hence should the return of stolen property be done immediately without any further negotiation?

Ohad could choose to reserve some 500,000 tokens or more for potential legal costs, and generous bounties into the future. If these contingency coins are never used, then they are as good as destroyed in effect.

Thereby the way is now made clear to cancel all previous coins, redistributing new coins to only the deserving recipients, leaving out completely the stolen coins, except the contingency coins. This truly fits with the principle 'first do no harm' to the vast body of people involved in countless endeavours.



Disclaimer: these discussions might serve as preparatory thoughts for further discussions with a lawyer. I am in no way giving legal advice; now, beforehand or in the future with regards to any or all input I make. I suggest to seek professional legal advice and treat my comments as entertainment value only.




I thought it was important to outline the legal and moral stance behind asking the question -

"Hence should the return of stolen property be done immediately without any further negotiation?"

Less than three hours later the question was resolved - with announcement of ~ 95% tokens to be returned.


I hope my post was helpful in some way.
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April 05, 2016, 04:34:55 AM
 #683

I just spoke with Dor, the person who bought most of the 500K.
He wasn't aware at all to the discussion here as he's getting ready for a travel. Once I told him that there is some criticism here etc., he presented a *great* will to resolve everything. He will do whatever takes.
We have to bear in mind that after all, he's not the only buyer at that low prices, and it's not fair that other buyers will profit and he wouldn't.
Let's raise some ideas how to resolve it in a fair peaceful way, and let's give it a day or two.

Giving the BTC back to the buyers isn't an issue: if decided, I'll pay it fully, as it is all my fault.


But ofcourse everything was done professionally behind the scenes between Ohad and Dor themselves, one can expect.
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April 05, 2016, 06:59:14 AM
 #684

I don't see any specification of this coin why.
I cna see however the IPO is still open and anyone can still buy right?



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April 05, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
 #685

I don't see any specification of this coin why.
There is no formal specification for Agora at the moment. The spec will likely be written directly in Tau logic when Tau-chain (the distributed plateform on which Agora will be running) is live. In the mean time, you can read the Tau whitepaper that covers the design of the Tau programming language and gives some hints of what the Tau-chain plateform will look like. You can also look at the Zennet thread (the earlier iteration of Agora) which gives a lot of technical details on the distributed computing model that Agora will be using. You will find a lot more information on IDNI, Tauchain and Zennet's websites as well as on this thread.

I cna see however the IPO is still open and anyone can still buy right?
The presale is momentarily suspended due to the theft of some of the presale funds.
The Agora tokens are currently being reissued as a new asset (asset id 58 on Omni)
Trading will resume some time this week or next. Follow this thread for more information.
Since the current asset tokens (asset id 35 on Omni) will soon be invalidated, do not purchase these tokens from anyone
andyatcrux
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April 05, 2016, 09:10:38 PM
 #686

still cant close buy order at bittrex !!! Angry Angry


Ooh, double frowny. I think you conveyed your dissatisfaction with the situation,  Cheesy.

 Seriously though if that is the case than perhaps Bittrex could be swayed to hit the reset button if enough people messaged them. I doubt anyone wants to keep their buy orders open at this point.
ohad
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April 06, 2016, 01:30:56 AM
 #687

new tokens sent.
waiting for bittrex to resume trade.

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April 06, 2016, 06:37:54 AM
 #688

new tokens sent.
waiting for bittrex to resume trade.

What's the new token's name? It's still Agoras? How can  I distinguish it from my old one?

Sirx: SQyHJdSRPk5WyvQ5rJpwDUHrLVSvK2ffFa
cryptoman77777
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April 06, 2016, 09:47:12 AM
 #689

I can't close a buy order on bittrex   Sad

when is the problem solved and will be open bidding?

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ohad
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April 06, 2016, 11:24:01 AM
 #690

guess it's better to destroy the old tokens (asset id 35), at least addresses with high amounts.
so either send them to me to 14gF3Up7wdRdkxAL4GgQLdnM8CThgDUSHR, and if you sent me by mistake the good asset (58), i can send back to the sending address.
or you can also burn the old asset (35) directly to 1PrevAgorasXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXYBAVyY if you're certain you won't do any mistake.
i understand that this might cost some nontrivial fees, so don't bother too much especially if you hold low amounts.
it's just better for people to see that this old token is mostly burnt.

again, this is all optional. except for the scammer, in which it's mandatory to return all tokens, unless he wants to get into deeper legal troubles.
do not follow the above instructions for coins you hold on bittrex.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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April 06, 2016, 08:01:25 PM
 #691

Sorry,
generally: So the new token will mirror the old one until march29?  Is Bittrex still wondering to reverse and hopefully paused scammer's account or did the scammer withdraw bitcoin?   If he withdrew, will Ohad cover bitcoins spent on march 30, which would let the market resume closest to as it was.  (Or will bitcoins spend be covered through tokens converted to a a fixed rate like 0.00050 in consensus with everyone?)  (- both march30-solutions do not consider the possibility that the scammer foresaw this and bought cheap tokes from himself with other bittrex accounts)

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ohad
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April 06, 2016, 09:31:10 PM
 #692

Sorry,
generally: So the new token will mirror the old one until march29?  Is Bittrex still wondering to reverse and hopefully paused scammer's account or did the scammer withdraw bitcoin?   If he withdrew, will Ohad cover bitcoins spent on march 30, which would let the market resume closest to as it was.  (Or will bitcoins spend be covered through tokens converted to a a fixed rate like 0.00050 in consensus with everyone?)  (- both march30-solutions do not consider the possibility that the scammer foresaw this and bought cheap tokes from himself with other bittrex accounts)

we just credited all addresses with exactly same amounts they have, except the 20.5M address and where it sent to.
Dor volunteered to return ~450K out of the 500K sold on bittrex, which he bought unintentionally.

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April 07, 2016, 12:13:08 PM
 #693

So is it AGRS tokens in Bittrex changed yet?
Mine not, I still have my old AGRS.
Sorry for my poor english.

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April 07, 2016, 12:16:18 PM
 #694

So is it AGRS tokens in Bittrex changed yet?
Mine not, I still have my old AGRS.
Sorry for my poor english.

bittrex began yesterday to put back the market. guess they'll finish today

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April 08, 2016, 06:36:24 PM
 #695

So is it AGRS tokens in Bittrex changed yet?
Mine not, I still have my old AGRS.
Mine too. I have old AGRS Tokens.

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April 08, 2016, 09:07:46 PM
 #696

Ohad whats going on?? when will the trading start?
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April 08, 2016, 09:10:35 PM
 #697

Ohad whats going on?? when will the trading start?

no idea, waiting for answers from bittrex

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April 09, 2016, 01:07:07 AM
 #698

market is back on bittrex. i informed them about withdrawals sending the old tokens.
EDIT: i tried to withdraw and it worked correctly (asset 58). bittrex says everything is fine.

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April 09, 2016, 05:29:27 AM
 #699

summary about the token replacement published on the blog http://www.idni.org/blog/replacingtheintermediatetokens

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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April 09, 2016, 07:56:03 AM
 #700

market is back on bittrex. i informed them about withdrawals sending the old tokens.
EDIT: i tried to withdraw and it worked correctly (asset 58). bittrex says everything is fine.
Market is back, but my tokens was not changed on Bittrex. I have still the AgorasToken (AGRS).
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