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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 309095 times)
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May 16, 2016, 11:06:15 AM
 #921

You can see this post from Ohad when the crowdfund originally started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838


"The current sale terms are as follows: From now on, we sell 50% of coins for approx $2M: The current price is $100 for 3.5 million (3,500,000) Agora coins, and will go up in 2% every week. Total number of coins is 147,000,000,000."

3.5M sold for 100 dollars one year ago? 147B coins

There is only 42,000,000 coins after the split to Omni the supply was reduced, all those buyers were also marginally reduced in relation to 42 million coins.

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May 16, 2016, 12:16:47 PM
 #922

You can see this post from Ohad when the crowdfund originally started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838


"The current sale terms are as follows: From now on, we sell 50% of coins for approx $2M: The current price is $100 for 3.5 million (3,500,000) Agora coins, and will go up in 2% every week. Total number of coins is 147,000,000,000."

3.5M sold for 100 dollars one year ago? 147B coins

There is only 42,000,000 coins after the split to Omni the supply was reduced, all those buyers were also marginally reduced in relation to 42 million coins.

thx 3.5m would be 0.0002% of 147B does it mean that that person got 0.0002% of the new 42M tokens? that would be 1c per token if he bought those 3.5M for 100 dollars

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May 16, 2016, 12:45:04 PM
 #923

You can see this post from Ohad when the crowdfund originally started:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838


"The current sale terms are as follows: From now on, we sell 50% of coins for approx $2M: The current price is $100 for 3.5 million (3,500,000) Agora coins, and will go up in 2% every week. Total number of coins is 147,000,000,000."

3.5M sold for 100 dollars one year ago? 147B coins

There is only 42,000,000 coins after the split to Omni the supply was reduced, all those buyers were also marginally reduced in relation to 42 million coins.

thx 3.5m would be 0.0002% of 147B does it mean that that person got 0.0002% of the new 42M tokens? that would be 1c per token if he bought those 3.5M for 100 dollars


No, 147,000,000,000 is divided down into 42,000,000 = 3500.

147,000,000,000 divided by 42,000,000 = 3500.

3,500,000 divided by 3500 = 1000.


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May 16, 2016, 02:06:49 PM
 #924

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

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May 16, 2016, 02:33:13 PM
 #925

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

You will need Ohad to tell you that, I'm not sure.

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May 16, 2016, 06:03:46 PM
 #926

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

Just check the public BTC address to see how much.
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May 17, 2016, 02:05:29 AM
 #927

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

Just check the public BTC address to see how much.

No. Somebody paid USD or EUR to buy Tau token, so the public BTC address could not show the accurate number.
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May 17, 2016, 10:04:16 AM
 #928

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

Just check the public BTC address to see how much.

No. Somebody paid USD or EUR to buy Tau token, so the public BTC address could not show the accurate number.

I'm pretty sure it was paid in BTC, afterall this is the BTC community in the first place.

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May 17, 2016, 11:29:29 AM
 #929

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

Just check the public BTC address to see how much.

No. Somebody paid USD or EUR to buy Tau token, so the public BTC address could not show the accurate number.

I'm pretty sure it was paid in BTC, afterall this is the BTC community in the first place.

https://bitcoinchain.com/block_explorer/address/1BzwxgzrdiW5Gdc3kfoUgxeHAhRjnMmrVs

If I divide 480 per 0.0002 as avg price it gives 2.4M tot coins sold but

1 this does not account fiat

2 Im not sure 0.0002 is the avg price for the sale

Also of those 480 btcs there are just 27 left? all the rest went into paying development already?

Why such complicated way to deal with this ICO ? why there is not a set date for the end of sale of tokens?

Why did you allow trading of tokens during the ICO? by doing that people can buy tokens and dev not get funds for development.

thx.

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May 17, 2016, 11:23:53 PM
 #930

thank you that makes sense, what is the tot amount sold till now? how can I check?

Just check the public BTC address to see how much.

No. Somebody paid USD or EUR to buy Tau token, so the public BTC address could not show the accurate number.

I'm pretty sure it was paid in BTC, afterall this is the BTC community in the first place.

https://bitcoinchain.com/block_explorer/address/1BzwxgzrdiW5Gdc3kfoUgxeHAhRjnMmrVs

If I divide 480 per 0.0002 as avg price it gives 2.4M tot coins sold but

1 this does not account fiat

2 Im not sure 0.0002 is the avg price for the sale

Also of those 480 btcs there are just 27 left? all the rest went into paying development already?

Why such complicated way to deal with this ICO ? why there is not a set date for the end of sale of tokens?

Why did you allow trading of tokens during the ICO? by doing that people can buy tokens and dev not get funds for development.

thx.

yes, there were more buys that are not part of those 480 btcs, no more than half the amount. note that it's all amounts over more than a year and with different btc and tokens rate.
not all were spended, most were not, as this presale funds should serve for the long term and there's only one sale. we just convert the btc to fiat in order not to expose the project's funds to btc's volatility.
the lowest price ever (people bought zennet's time) is 7.5 cents per token, without taking into account what happens in the exchange.
the funding of the project is not complicated and strange - in fact, startups don't do "two months funding" or so. we build a very serious foundation here. more like the standards of software startups and less like the standards of the cryptocurrency world.
trades are allowed in order to give buyers some liquidity.

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May 18, 2016, 05:29:20 PM
 #931

What do you guys think of http://www.tezos.com?

Is it comparable to Tau-Chain and Agoras? Once released, will Tau-Chain and Tezos compete, complement each other or neither?

Thanks. Keep up the good work. I really appreciate and admire the work you all do.
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May 18, 2016, 06:17:02 PM
 #932

Very interesting. Just finish reading the white paper.
Thanks for sharing  Smiley
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May 19, 2016, 12:10:51 AM
 #933

When this is ready will I be able to install and run an operating system on it?

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May 19, 2016, 12:19:26 AM
 #934

When this is ready will I be able to install and run an operating system on it?

good q. we want to reach there too. thats a good example why it must be of high quality, well tested, minimalistic, and as fast as possible

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May 19, 2016, 12:33:49 AM
 #935

When this is ready will I be able to install and run an operating system on it?

good q. we want to reach there too. thats a good example why it must be of high quality, well tested, minimalistic, and as fast as possible

This is a goal I can get behind! Now the question is will the project be able to use cpu extensions when it can conceivable be comprised of cpu's that will not have those extensions built in? Will those extensions be virtualized and if so will a licensing fee need to be paid for that capability? I'm aware of a russian os that runs on a cpu without extensions that does virtualize x86 instructions but I am not sure of the legalities involved.

I'm not sure of what you mean by the vague term "high quality".

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May 19, 2016, 12:36:43 AM
 #936

When this is ready will I be able to install and run an operating system on it?

good q. we want to reach there too. thats a good example why it must be of high quality, well tested, minimalistic, and as fast as possible

This is a goal I can get behind! Now the question is will the project be able to use cpu extensions when it can conceivable be comprised of cpu's that will not have those extensions built in? Will those extensions be virtualized and if so will a licensing fee need to be paid for that capability? I'm aware of a russian os that runs on a cpu without extensions that does virtualize x86 instructions but I am not sure of the legalities involved.

that's part of being minimalistic: hopefully we'll use a very restricted instruction set. we also plan to be somehow multiarch on release. recall we build a jit compiler, a real one, i.e. a one that in real time emits machine code.

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I'm not sure of what you mean by the vague term "high quality".

it has to be competitive to the state of the art of programming languages.

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May 19, 2016, 12:50:35 AM
 #937

When this is ready will I be able to install and run an operating system on it?

good q. we want to reach there too. thats a good example why it must be of high quality, well tested, minimalistic, and as fast as possible

This is a goal I can get behind! Now the question is will the project be able to use cpu extensions when it can conceivable be comprised of cpu's that will not have those extensions built in? Will those extensions be virtualized and if so will a licensing fee need to be paid for that capability? I'm aware of a russian os that runs on a cpu without extensions that does virtualize x86 instructions but I am not sure of the legalities involved.

that's part of being minimalistic: hopefully we'll use a very restricted instruction set. we also plan to be somehow multiarch on release. recall we build a jit compiler, a real one, i.e. a one that in real time emits machine code.

Quote
I'm not sure of what you mean by the vague term "high quality".

it has to be competitive to the state of the art of programming languages.


OK, when you state your building a JIT do you mean the network will compile any code on the fly? The only JIT I know of is java but I don't program in many 5th level languages. I'm a little confused on how JIt will in any way allow the running of an os (what I am really interested in) It sounds like you are building a virtual machine that will run scripting on the fly. Which of course is not required for what I am interested in as it is all precompiled. I guess it could compile vanilla linux kernels but what system can't? Can you clarify this for me.

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May 19, 2016, 01:03:11 AM
 #938

OK, when you state your building a JIT do you mean the network will compile any code on the fly? The only JIT I know of is java but I don't program in many 5th level languages. I'm a little confused on how JIt will in any way allow the running of an os (what I am really interested in) It sounds like you are building a virtual machine that will run scripting on the fly. Which of course is not required for what I am interested in as it is all precompiled. I guess it could compile vanilla linux kernels but what system can't? Can you clarify this for me.

the language consists of facts, rules, queries, and side effects (eg disk/network).
the runtime process mainly includes reasoning over the rules to resolve the query and by that possibly encounter side effects.
this is actually an automated theorem prover, like idris/coq/agda.
all this logic better happen very fast, as the whole point is to rely on it. so the whole process is incrementally translated to machine code in memory, and called to be executed by the cpu.
specifically for operating systems, as they're written mostly in C, at the same way they can be written with tau.
jit compilation is a technology used in many languages eg java you mentioned. it indeed proved itself as a high performance way to translate a high level programming language to the machine.

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May 19, 2016, 02:02:46 AM
 #939

OK, when you state your building a JIT do you mean the network will compile any code on the fly? The only JIT I know of is java but I don't program in many 5th level languages. I'm a little confused on how JIt will in any way allow the running of an os (what I am really interested in) It sounds like you are building a virtual machine that will run scripting on the fly. Which of course is not required for what I am interested in as it is all precompiled. I guess it could compile vanilla linux kernels but what system can't? Can you clarify this for me.

the language consists of facts, rules, queries, and side effects (eg disk/network).
the runtime process mainly includes reasoning over the rules to resolve the query and by that possibly encounter side effects.
this is actually an automated theorem prover, like idris/coq/agda.
all this logic better happen very fast, as the whole point is to rely on it. so the whole process is incrementally translated to machine code in memory, and called to be executed by the cpu.
specifically for operating systems, as they're written mostly in C, at the same way they can be written with tau.
jit compilation is a technology used in many languages eg java you mentioned. it indeed proved itself as a high performance way to translate a high level programming language to the machine.

OK, as you say "All this better happen pretty fast" well nothing can happen fast on a decentralized system in comparison to say a soc. So I see no way this can run a modern OS faster than a watch could (actually I'm sure it could not). You state it is equivalent to idris/coq/agda and they are languages so what you are saying is this will be communicated to by code so I do not see how it can run an OS to begin with, it sounds like it will be a system that can be sent jobs in a que type system, correct? There is nothing wrong with that and it is a sound plan but I cannot equate this model being able to run a precompiled OS. Maybe my understanding of what you are saying is off?

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May 19, 2016, 02:09:40 AM
 #940

OK, as you say "All this better happen pretty fast" well nothing can happen fast on a decentralized system in comparison to say a soc.
everything i speak about at this scope is local. to run the programming language on a single machine. the logic should happen fast as the runtime may grow exponentially with the length of the code, so we want to push the limits to the max.

Quote
So I see no way this can run a modern OS faster than a watch could (actually I'm sure it could not).

a tau based os won't be faster just for the reason it's using our compiler. but once one is able to reason over the code, in a consistently decidable manner, the picture changes. you can get an apriori proof of correctness, security etc all up to formal definitions. you can also reason about performance issues.

Quote
You state it is equivalent to idris/coq/agda and they are languages so what you are saying is this will be communicated to by code so I do not see how it can run an OS to begin with, it sounds like it will be a system that can be sent jobs in a que type system, correct? There is nothing wrong with that and it is a sound plan but I cannot equate this model being able to run a precompiled OS. Maybe my understanding of what you are saying is off?

like idris/coq/agda only from logical aspect. they don't have a jit compiler architecture, for example. on tau we try to take the logic as closer to the bare metals.

that all aside the blockchain and dht parts. which of course can be referred from inside the language too.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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