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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 258533 times)
rocanonz
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December 05, 2015, 09:25:07 PM
 #341

I wrote a summary of the current presale status http://www.idni.org/blog/presale-update
Also I updated the description of Agoras http://www.idni.org/agoras
Hi ohad,
When do you intend to stop the presale, and burn the remaining premied Agoras coins?
A development calendar for tauchain?

Hi,
The coins will be destroyed at the final step - when Agoras is ready, which is several months (4?) after Tau is ready, which will take another such order of magnitude of time from now, by pessimistic estimation. Only when we deliver an actually working economy as we promised, the intermediate tokens will be destroyed, still a moment before the real coins are usable. Nevertheless I must stress that even though the technical feasibility of the project is unquestionable - we don't do anything that didn't already prove itself working out there - the development time is extremely difficult to estimate. This is because we cannot give up quality. We can't deliver tau/agoras with one bug and fix it later. The network must be correct=secure from genesis (unlike the standards of other players, but mostly because it may be technically impossible to change certain things after genesis, mainly the underlying logic). This also regards performance bugs.
Your project is revolutionary and it's product the tauchain, can have a big impact. Thank you for clarification.
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December 18, 2015, 08:28:39 AM
 #342

Is there any update, there is no update of the code in Github for a long time.

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December 18, 2015, 08:31:29 AM
 #343

Is there any update, there is no update of the code in Github for a long time.

There are updates on github just on another branch so you don't see it on master branch. Also I work mainly locally lately.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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December 23, 2015, 07:55:09 PM
 #344

High-level interview about Tau https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ORpi2MMJrA

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January 08, 2016, 05:14:46 PM
 #345

Price of the intermediate tokens will stop going up (the weekly 2%) until further notice. For now the price will remain 0.000634 btc per token

due to bitcoin price change, price per token updated to 0.000465

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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January 08, 2016, 05:15:00 PM
 #346

New video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SXfYgQxsOA

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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January 20, 2016, 11:56:56 AM
 #347

Wow, great video!
Finally I managed to buy 400 tokens, looking forward to the release!

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lordoliver
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January 20, 2016, 09:32:39 PM
 #348

Price of the intermediate tokens will stop going up (the weekly 2%) until further notice. For now the price will remain 0.000634 btc per token

due to bitcoin price change, price per token updated to 0.000465

When will be the end of selling? Still 4 months?
I am feeling a little fooled. It didn't seem to me that the selling will be over several months and marketing campaigns...
and reducing the price is not fair for early buyers as well... greedy?
I mean, hello.. I was spending my bitcoins here, and if i kept them I would have get more?
Sorry, but its getting suspicious...
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January 20, 2016, 09:45:23 PM
 #349

Price of the intermediate tokens will stop going up (the weekly 2%) until further notice. For now the price will remain 0.000634 btc per token

due to bitcoin price change, price per token updated to 0.000465

When will be the end of selling? Still 4 months?
I am feeling a little fooled. It didn't seem to me that the selling will be over several months and marketing campaigns...
and reducing the price is not fair for early buyers as well... greedy?
I mean, hello.. I was spending my bitcoins here, and if i kept them I would have get more?
Sorry, but its getting suspicious...


Hi,
Reducing the price is only to adopt the BTC price -- the price isn't reduced in USD terms and in fact always only went up. BTC went almost x2 on this period of time and the price update wasn't as high. From since the beginning we informed that the prices would be rated in USD rather BTC. Moreover, the early buyers are always taken heavily into consideration and indeed price never went down in USD terms even once, but went up a lot.
I don't think it was ever said or clued that the sale will be over after a few months - in fact it will be ended significant period of time after tauchain will be ready. The sale will be ended when the Agoras network begins (with its true coins rather intermediate tokens as exist now), and at that point of time all unsold coins would be destroyed.
The price will go up again, but after 2% weekly for almost a year, I think it's ok to hold for a period of time, also because after all it's not that we've seen extremely high exchange volumes so to speak. Also I think that the biggest public interest on the tokens will be after tau is ready and before agoras is ready.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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January 20, 2016, 09:56:00 PM
 #350

Hi,
Reducing the price is only to adopt the BTC price -- the price isn't reduced in USD terms and in fact always only went up. BTC went almost x2 on this period of time and the price update wasn't as high. From since the beginning we informed that the prices would be rated in USD rather BTC. Moreover, the early buyers are always taken heavily into consideration and indeed price never went down in USD terms even once, but went up a lot.
I don't think it was ever said or clued that the sale will be over after a few months - in fact it will be ended significant period of time after tauchain will be ready. The sale will be ended when the Agoras network begins (with its true coins rather intermediate tokens as exist now), and at that point of time all unsold coins would be destroyed.
The price will go up again, but after 2% weekly for almost a year, I think it's ok to hold for a period of time, also because after all it's not that we've seen extremely high exchange volumes so to speak. Also I think that the biggest public interest on the tokens will be after tau is ready and before agoras is ready.

The bitcoin price will probably raise further. So will you further reduce agoras price in bitcoin terms then? If bitcoin 10folds tau crashes in bitcoin? Did I invest in fiat?
We are in crypto space, dollar means nothing...
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January 20, 2016, 09:59:14 PM
 #351

Hi,
Reducing the price is only to adopt the BTC price -- the price isn't reduced in USD terms and in fact always only went up. BTC went almost x2 on this period of time and the price update wasn't as high. From since the beginning we informed that the prices would be rated in USD rather BTC. Moreover, the early buyers are always taken heavily into consideration and indeed price never went down in USD terms even once, but went up a lot.
I don't think it was ever said or clued that the sale will be over after a few months - in fact it will be ended significant period of time after tauchain will be ready. The sale will be ended when the Agoras network begins (with its true coins rather intermediate tokens as exist now), and at that point of time all unsold coins would be destroyed.
The price will go up again, but after 2% weekly for almost a year, I think it's ok to hold for a period of time, also because after all it's not that we've seen extremely high exchange volumes so to speak. Also I think that the biggest public interest on the tokens will be after tau is ready and before agoras is ready.

The bitcoin price will probably raise further. So will you further reduce agoras price in bitcoin terms then? If bitcoin 10folds tau crashes in bitcoin? Did I invest in fiat?
We are in crypto space, dollar means nothing...

The price-in-fiat way was announced from the beginning and mentioned all along. And I think this is the responsible thing to do. We cannot put the project's funds at the risk of BTC fluctuations. Did you see how much Ethereum lost due to BTC price change?..

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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January 20, 2016, 10:05:59 PM
 #352

The price-in-fiat way was announced from the beginning and mentioned all along. And I think this is the responsible thing to do. We cannot put the project's funds at the risk of BTC fluctuations. Did you see how much Ethereum lost due to BTC price change?..

Ethereum lost nothing. They just have to keep the funds until price goes higher again. Dumping is not helping here. We crypto guys are responsible for the adaption.
If even we can't live 50% rollercoasters, how can we ever get this whole shit public adapted?
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January 20, 2016, 10:09:29 PM
 #353

The price-in-fiat way was announced from the beginning and mentioned all along. And I think this is the responsible thing to do. We cannot put the project's funds at the risk of BTC fluctuations. Did you see how much Ethereum lost due to BTC price change?..

Ethereum lost nothing. They just have to keep the funds until price goes higher again. Dumping is not helping here. We crypto guys are responsible for the adaption.
If even we can't live 50% rollercoasters, how can we ever get this whole shit public adapted?

Ok I respect your opinion though majority of the buyers rather support the fiat paradigm for the same reasons. We all want the same thing.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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February 01, 2016, 06:21:52 PM
 #354

It seems that once Tau goes online, and a few exchanges pick up the temporary AGRS, or even after the AGRS genesis comes through, that all denominations will be based on BTC. So this is really a mute point to argue about, as this approach is relevant only for the early pre-genesis pre-trade mode.   
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February 03, 2016, 09:18:02 PM
 #355

Any news on the project?

Try P2P serverless websites    << ZeroNet >>    No blockings, No censorship, dynamic content.    Forums, blogs, trackers, etc.
P2P-вебсайты без сервера    << ZeroNet >>    Без блокировок, без цензуры, динамич. контент.  Форумы, блоги, трекеры.
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February 04, 2016, 02:19:58 AM
 #356

Any news on the project?
I'm still wrapping my head around converging to the best compilation architecture for tau. It is a delicate and hard task.
BTW this is from today: http://bitcoinist.net/six-ethereum-projects-and-its-five-competitors/

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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February 05, 2016, 12:35:23 AM
 #357

Any news on the project?
I'm still wrapping my head around converging to the best compilation architecture for tau. It is a delicate and hard task.
BTW this is from today: http://bitcoinist.net/six-ethereum-projects-and-its-five-competitors/
You've been working on that for a long time. Have you considered working on the actual code to bootstrap Tau first, and come back to this later?

I know that when building something as complex as a new language, and pieces have to work together, but once you have the code that the Tau engine will compile, it will be a lot easier to create an efficient compiler, "A plan never survives first contact with the enemy", "Make it work, make it right, make it fast" and all that...

Also, having something to show, as slow and imperfect as it may be, would do well for getting the message out and help you raise funds. This as well as the effect on the community and helping draw smart people to be involved in the product, which I would expect to be invaluable...
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February 05, 2016, 08:07:07 AM
 #358

Any news on the project?
I'm still wrapping my head around converging to the best compilation architecture for tau. It is a delicate and hard task.
BTW this is from today: http://bitcoinist.net/six-ethereum-projects-and-its-five-competitors/
You've been working on that for a long time. Have you considered working on the actual code to bootstrap Tau first, and come back to this later?

I know that when building something as complex as a new language, and pieces have to work together, but once you have the code that the Tau engine will compile, it will be a lot easier to create an efficient compiler, "A plan never survives first contact with the enemy", "Make it work, make it right, make it fast" and all that...

Also, having something to show, as slow and imperfect as it may be, would do well for getting the message out and help you raise funds. This as well as the effect on the community and helping draw smart people to be involved in the product, which I would expect to be invaluable...

I agree...


I really wish it was possible (beginning tau network without the 'best' compiler and finishing it later), and since the beginning we gave a decent thought to 'what is the bare minimum'. Obviously that'd make 'life much easier' for me.
But the execution path must be predetermined at genesis and beyond, so given a proof by one client, it can be verified by another client - at the very same proof flow. If we would give up rigid and predetermined proof flow, we won't be able to implement lambda-auth (hashing the proof tree in a way that leaves a short 'proof of correct proof' or 'proof of execution', relying on the fact that all clients have exact same flow).
So this underlying flow cannot be changed and must be finalized at the best possible performance. Which is nothing but the compilation architecture.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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February 12, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
 #359

Any news on the project?
I'm still wrapping my head around converging to the best compilation architecture for tau. It is a delicate and hard task.
BTW this is from today: http://bitcoinist.net/six-ethereum-projects-and-its-five-competitors/
You've been working on that for a long time. Have you considered working on the actual code to bootstrap Tau first, and come back to this later?

I know that when building something as complex as a new language, and pieces have to work together, but once you have the code that the Tau engine will compile, it will be a lot easier to create an efficient compiler, "A plan never survives first contact with the enemy", "Make it work, make it right, make it fast" and all that...

Also, having something to show, as slow and imperfect as it may be, would do well for getting the message out and help you raise funds. This as well as the effect on the community and helping draw smart people to be involved in the product, which I would expect to be invaluable...

I agree...


I really wish it was possible (beginning tau network without the 'best' compiler and finishing it later), and since the beginning we gave a decent thought to 'what is the bare minimum'. Obviously that'd make 'life much easier' for me.
But the execution path must be predetermined at genesis and beyond, so given a proof by one client, it can be verified by another client - at the very same proof flow. If we would give up rigid and predetermined proof flow, we won't be able to implement lambda-auth (hashing the proof tree in a way that leaves a short 'proof of correct proof' or 'proof of execution', relying on the fact that all clients have exact same flow).
So this underlying flow cannot be changed and must be finalized at the best possible performance. Which is nothing but the compilation architecture.

But wouldn't that leave room for a test network? A test network wouldn't require the best possible performance, and the code (logic? I'm not sure what to call the stuff that makes up the Tau network) should run as is on production once you get there, right? And that way, you could assign the creation of the code running on Tau off to some other people, because it would be mostly orthogonal, isn't it? And also, people could independently try and improve your engine/create their own, since they'd have a baseline to run theirs against.

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February 12, 2016, 05:49:24 PM
 #360

Any news on the project?
I'm still wrapping my head around converging to the best compilation architecture for tau. It is a delicate and hard task.
BTW this is from today: http://bitcoinist.net/six-ethereum-projects-and-its-five-competitors/
You've been working on that for a long time. Have you considered working on the actual code to bootstrap Tau first, and come back to this later?

I know that when building something as complex as a new language, and pieces have to work together, but once you have the code that the Tau engine will compile, it will be a lot easier to create an efficient compiler, "A plan never survives first contact with the enemy", "Make it work, make it right, make it fast" and all that...

Also, having something to show, as slow and imperfect as it may be, would do well for getting the message out and help you raise funds. This as well as the effect on the community and helping draw smart people to be involved in the product, which I would expect to be invaluable...

I agree...


I really wish it was possible (beginning tau network without the 'best' compiler and finishing it later), and since the beginning we gave a decent thought to 'what is the bare minimum'. Obviously that'd make 'life much easier' for me.
But the execution path must be predetermined at genesis and beyond, so given a proof by one client, it can be verified by another client - at the very same proof flow. If we would give up rigid and predetermined proof flow, we won't be able to implement lambda-auth (hashing the proof tree in a way that leaves a short 'proof of correct proof' or 'proof of execution', relying on the fact that all clients have exact same flow).
So this underlying flow cannot be changed and must be finalized at the best possible performance. Which is nothing but the compilation architecture.

But wouldn't that leave room for a test network? A test network wouldn't require the best possible performance, and the code (logic? I'm not sure what to call the stuff that makes up the Tau network) should run as is on production once you get there, right? And that way, you could assign the creation of the code running on Tau off to some other people, because it would be mostly orthogonal, isn't it? And also, people could independently try and improve your engine/create their own, since they'd have a baseline to run theirs against.



That's true. But we don't have enough resources for that, and it's not only (or mainly) a money issue. I think that in the bottom line it'll take more time, less quality, more risk, and know-hows evaporating from the shared knowledge. Nevertheless from time to time we think about fast-implementing what we call 'naive tau' - simply tau connected to eye/cwm. It is also very interesting to do it as an experiment and see how it fails and why decidable logic is  crucial. If someone wants to get into this adventure - you have our full tech and spirit support.

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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