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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 277904 times)
jibble
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June 02, 2016, 09:45:07 PM

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3) I've checked Bittrex, but it's only available to buy 384,815. That's less than 1% of 42,000,000
In the distribution the biggest address has 447,900.
Where are the rest of the coins?

rest of the coins are simply not on held bittrex


and they are held in omniwallet? because wallets are not available right?

what % is still in hands of the foundation?
(3% premine; 1% 3rd party proyects; 2% Foundation)
Is there any big investor holding more than 10% of AGRS?

Why only one exchange? This coin is good enougth to be atleast in 3/4 exchanges 

I don't even think the current total amount of AGRS sold is over 6% , never mind over 10% to 1 person

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Rw13enlib88
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June 02, 2016, 11:32:10 PM

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3) I've checked Bittrex, but it's only available to buy 384,815. That's less than 1% of 42,000,000
In the distribution the biggest address has 447,900.
Where are the rest of the coins?

rest of the coins are simply not on held bittrex


and they are held in omniwallet? because wallets are not available right?

what % is still in hands of the foundation?
(3% premine; 1% 3rd party proyects; 2% Foundation)
Is there any big investor holding more than 10% of AGRS?

Why only one exchange? This coin is good enougth to be atleast in 3/4 exchanges 

I don't even think the current total amount of AGRS sold is over 6% , never mind over 10% to 1 person



interesting...

so you are saying dev still holds 94% of AGRSs?

So we do not sell Zennet coins anymore, and all previous buyers will get Agora,
offering no less but much more technological and economical features.
The current sale terms are as follows: From now on, we sell 50% of coins for approx $2M: The current price is $100 for 3.5 million (3,500,000) Agora coins, and will go up in 2% every week. Total number of coins is 147,000,000,000.

This sale will go into BTC address 1BzwxgzrdiW5Gdc3kfoUgxeHAhRjnMmrVs and everything will be calculated according to the BTC/USD rate at the moment of transfar (according to blockchain.info website showing the tx value at the time transacted). All past private buyers have bought on significantly higher prices, and will be compensated and get 25% retroactive discount over this current price.

We will issue an intermediate token over Counterparty, each single token will represent 3500 Agoras.
EDIT: We're on Omni http://www.idni.org/blog/omni

The process of purchasing is as follows: email me to ohad@idni.org (yeah that痴 my new email, but you can still reach me at ohadasor@gmail.com), I値l send you an agreement, reply to me that you agree, specify a name and country of residence of whom to write a tax receipt in behalf to (of course I have nothing to do with private details, I just need name and country to write on the receipt), transfer the coins, and send me the txid so I値l know to associate it with you. Then I値l send you the Counterparty tokens to the address you値l ask me to, or to the sender痴 address by default.
I知 doing it all manually for several reasons, so please understand if processing your request takes a few days. Because of that, please do not begin the process if you plan to purchase with less than $25.
Previous buyers, I'll contact you to send you the tokens, please contact me first when you see this messege.


the btc address BzwxgzrdiW5Gdc3kfoUgxeHAhRjnMmrVs is receiving btc

So dev, please explain.

1) How is the coin distributed?
Zennet                                 -%
(Presale?/Bittrex?)             50%
X                                           x%
2) How many coins are still at sale and at what price?
3) Any financial institution between investors?
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June 03, 2016, 02:35:09 AM

so you are saying dev still holds 94% of AGRSs?

1) How is the coin distributed?
Zennet                                 -%
(Presale?/Bittrex?)             50%
X                                           x%
2) How many coins are still at sale and at what price?
3) Any financial institution between investors?

so far ~7M tokens were sold. if you want to track down how many sold in different milestones, see the blog on idni.org. in general there is no distinction between buyers on zennet's time to tau's time. presale is for all tokens (namely 97% not counting the "premine"). to see the latest price calculations cf the end of the "project roadmap" blogpost.
i didn't understand the last question

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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June 03, 2016, 03:31:41 AM

so you are saying dev still holds 94% of AGRSs?

1) How is the coin distributed?
Zennet                                 -%
(Presale?/Bittrex?)             50%
X                                           x%
2) How many coins are still at sale and at what price?
3) Any financial institution between investors?

so far ~7M tokens were sold. if you want to track down how many sold in different milestones, see the blog on idni.org. in general there is no distinction between buyers on zennet's time to tau's time. presale is for all tokens (namely 97% not counting the "premine"). to see the latest price calculations cf the end of the "project roadmap" blogpost.
i didn't understand the last question

 
More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure

20centsx5weeksx5%=25cents of $ ?

Quote
Still, early buyers have to be incentivized. We had a weekly 2% raise in price and recently suspended it. But from May 1 the price per token we sell at will be 20 cents, going up 5% monthly (recall it has nothing to do with prices people sell at on the exchange). Beginning from today we offer the following wholesale discount: every additional 10K tokens will give additional 5% discount. So if one purchases 30K tokens, the price for the first 10K is the regular price, then a 5% discount on the next 10K tokens, then 10% discount on the subsequent 10K tokens. All purchasers via email receive a tax invoice with their desired recipient name. A buyer that agrees not to receive the intermediate tokens but only the final coins gets additional 15% discount. The total marginal discount will never go below 50% (as to be fair with earlier buyers).
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June 03, 2016, 03:42:28 AM

More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure

20centsx5weeksx5%=25cents of $ ?


i dont understand your calculations

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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June 03, 2016, 03:48:45 AM

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More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure

7M/ 42M= ~16%

sorry, 84%


Quote
20centsx5weeksx5%=25cents of $ ?

Quote
Still, early buyers have to be incentivized. We had a weekly 2% raise in price and recently suspended it. But from May 1 the price per token we sell at will be 20 cents, going up 5% monthly /quote]

sorry again,  Tongue needa rest

21cents$
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June 03, 2016, 11:29:34 AM



 
More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure



This is like a standard IPO except the rules of distribution are slightly tweaked as this is a long duration IPO this gives plenty of time for investors to buy in so no one can complain about missing it if it has been available to buy not for 1 months but for over 8 months now and possibly even more than another 5+ months

It has been noted before , these coins are representations of tokens that will be converted at the time the economical aspect of tau-chain is implemented . Unsold coins will be destroyed if they are  not sold
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June 04, 2016, 02:26:50 AM



 
More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure



This is like a standard IPO except the rules of distribution are slightly tweaked as this is a long duration IPO this gives plenty of time for investors to buy in so no one can complain about missing it if it has been available to buy not for 1 months but for over 8 months now and possibly even more than another 5+ months

It has been noted before , these coins are representations of tokens that will be converted at the time the economical aspect of tau-chain is implemented . Unsold coins will be destroyed if they are  not sold

I see a problem there.

Obviously every coin is gonna be sold because we gonna live the next btc adoption during the next 5 months, and that means millions on new people coming to the cryptos.

the problem is that your "institutional" IPO (only 10k lots) will have a cheaper price than the market and some wealthy pockets will buy from you and sell in the market.

Let's imagine:
In one month:
500$     = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00044btc = 440,000sat
1,000$  = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00022btc = 220,000sat
5,000$ = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.0044btc    =   44,000sat
10,000$ = 1btc-> 22cents$ = 0.0022btc    =   22,000sat


As you can imagine if the price of btc goes up until 1,000$-10,000$, the price of AGRS will follow the uptrend path.

AGRS Free market price (up) vs "institutional IPO" (down)

If you agree with this situation I would like to reserve all the stake on sale. I'll pay it, once btc achieves 3,000$/btc

If you wanna fix it, I would lock the price of the pre-sale to btc not to $.
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June 04, 2016, 09:32:47 AM



 
More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure



This is like a standard IPO except the rules of distribution are slightly tweaked as this is a long duration IPO this gives plenty of time for investors to buy in so no one can complain about missing it if it has been available to buy not for 1 months but for over 8 months now and possibly even more than another 5+ months

It has been noted before , these coins are representations of tokens that will be converted at the time the economical aspect of tau-chain is implemented . Unsold coins will be destroyed if they are  not sold

I see a problem there.

Obviously every coin is gonna be sold because we gonna live the next btc adoption during the next 5 months, and that means millions on new people coming to the cryptos.

the problem is that your "institutional" IPO (only 10k lots) will have a cheaper price than the market and some wealthy pockets will buy from you and sell in the market.

Let's imagine:
In one month:
500$     = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00044btc = 440,000sat
1,000$  = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00022btc = 220,000sat
5,000$ = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.0044btc    =   44,000sat
10,000$ = 1btc-> 22cents$ = 0.0022btc    =   22,000sat


As you can imagine if the price of btc goes up until 1,000$-10,000$, the price of AGRS will follow the uptrend path.

AGRS Free market price (up) vs "institutional IPO" (down)


If you agree with this situation I would like to reserve all the stake on sale. I'll pay it, once btc achieves 3,000$/btc

If you wanna fix it, I would lock the price of the pre-sale to btc not to $.
500$     = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00044btc = 440,000sat, did you mean 44,000 satoshis?
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June 04, 2016, 12:37:06 PM

Should be stopped as soon as possible IPO

Rw13enlib88
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June 04, 2016, 04:58:21 PM



 
More than 90% in devs hand, that's a lot even if you dont follow the cryptospace financial structure



This is like a standard IPO except the rules of distribution are slightly tweaked as this is a long duration IPO this gives plenty of time for investors to buy in so no one can complain about missing it if it has been available to buy not for 1 months but for over 8 months now and possibly even more than another 5+ months

It has been noted before , these coins are representations of tokens that will be converted at the time the economical aspect of tau-chain is implemented . Unsold coins will be destroyed if they are  not sold

I see a problem there.

Obviously every coin is gonna be sold because we gonna live the next btc adoption during the next 5 months, and that means millions on new people coming to the cryptos.

the problem is that your "institutional" IPO (only 10k lots) will have a cheaper price than the market and some wealthy pockets will buy from you and sell in the market.

Let's imagine:
In one month:
500$     = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00044btc = 440,000sat
1,000$  = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00022btc = 220,000sat
5,000$ = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.000044btc    =   44,000sat
10,000$ = 1btc-> 22cents$ = 0.000022btc    =   22,000sat


As you can imagine if the price of btc goes up until 1,000$-10,000$, the price of AGRS will follow the uptrend path.

AGRS Free market price (up) vs "institutional IPO" (down)


If you agree with this situation I would like to reserve all the stake on sale. I'll pay it, once btc achieves 3,000$/btc

If you wanna fix it, I would lock the price of the pre-sale to btc not to $.
500$     = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00044btc = 440,000sat, did you mean 44,000 satoshis?

shit! third wrong math in this page  Cheesy

Point is... it's even worst in that case
500$     = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00044btc = 44,000sat
1,000$  = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.00022btc = 22,000sat
5,000$ = 1btc --> 22cents$ = 0.000044btc  =  4,400sat
10,000$ = 1btc-> 22cents$ = 0.000022btc  =  2,200sat



Should be stopped as soon as possible IPO

We can guess that for 1,000$/btc all the stake will be sold and in the market, so dont need to worry about IPO
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June 04, 2016, 09:00:19 PM

Should be stopped as soon as possible IPO

The point of the rolling crowdsale is that development is perpetually funded until release, it does not mean that all tokens will be sold. If it gets released soon all the rest of the tokens are burned.

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June 04, 2016, 09:16:19 PM

I like this project, but this has to be one of the most confusing ICO's I've ever invested in.  Embarrassed

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June 05, 2016, 12:09:10 AM

Should be stopped as soon as possible IPO

The point of the rolling crowdsale is that development is perpetually funded until release, it does not mean that all tokens will be sold. If it gets released soon all the rest of the tokens are burned.
This..
the whole page of math fuckery by Rw13enlib88 about ico pricing is idiotic.
The ico will likely continue for a long time just as it has been going on for a long time.
The ico will conclude when tau language + agoras coin development is ready for release.

im going to go on a limb and attribute the questioning to one of two things.
1. Rw13enlib88 doesnt trust ohad with all those coins.
2. Rw13enlib88 thinks bitcoin will go so high that it will be trivial to buy out the project.

1. I'd say ohad and team have been working long and hard enough to have proven they are not going to dump the tokens. reminder, it has been over 1.5 years. if you dont trust the team dont invest.
2. just because you hold bitcoin to $10k/btc and your purchasing power of a 22 cent token has increased doesnt mean it has for everyone. for example someone who wants to buy an agoras token when bitcoin costs 10k will still have to spend 22 cents.
(i do not personally believe its reasonable to think bitcoin will go back over a thousand a coin in the next few months.)

Personally I dont think the way the ico has gone so far is a good way to manage an ico. (extended time period including open market trading) but i dont have a solution and its far enough along that it doesnt matter. as ICOcountdown said, the long term rolling crowdfund allows them to continue to use funds raised for continuing development.

scenario a:
the current tokens price never takes off. it always sells for under the current ico price at the time. ohad and team work longer with less available funding. only 10% sells. 90% gets burnt

scenario b:
as a release becomes announced and testing begins maybe a la maidsafe style with MVP product etc. the interest increases, the price increases to match the sell side. at some point weeks later and a few price increases later the tokens are sold out and speculative open trading continues until full launch.

these are extreme scenarios. though its been off to a slow fundraising start this past year i think the original goal was to raise $4-6 million. there have been plenty of icos lately raise that level of money.


I like this project, but this has to be one of the most confusing ICO's I've ever invested in.  Embarrassed
its confusing because its been ico'ing for a long time. and raises in price every 2 weeks and it is trading on the open market for less than the ico price.

$MAID & $BTC other than that some short hodls and some long held garbage.
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June 05, 2016, 01:04:45 AM

Should be stopped as soon as possible IPO

The point of the rolling crowdsale is that development is perpetually funded until release, it does not mean that all tokens will be sold. If it gets released soon all the rest of the tokens are burned.
This..
the whole page of math fuckery by Rw13enlib88 about ico pricing is idiotic.
It's called research. Is what you do when you care for your money.

The ico will likely continue for a long time just as it has been going on for a long time. or until is all sold
The ico will conclude when tau language + agoras coin development is ready for release. or until is all sold

im going to go on a limb and attribute the questioning to one of two things.
1. Rw13enlib88 doesnt trust ohad with all those coins. False
2. Rw13enlib88 thinks bitcoin will go so high that it will be trivial to buy out the project. True

1. I'd say ohad and team have been working long and hard enough to have proven they are not going to dump the tokens. reminder, it has been over 1.5 years. if you dont trust the team dont invest.

As I've said in my first post, it's my first time in AGRS. So I didnt trust them. After the research I've see the difference between this coin and the rest of the coins.
Both in terms of ICO and project


2. just because you hold bitcoin to $10k/btc and your purchasing power of a 22 cent token has increased doesnt mean it has for everyone.

yes it has for everyone with bitcoin

 for example someone who wants to buy an agoras token when bitcoin costs 10k will still have to spend 22 cents.

That's the point, you can buy from IPO at 22cents and from market at (lets guess) 2$.
Someone will buy from IPO and sell it to the market.
Which is not that bad because the project gets funded and there are more coins available for little investors.


(i do not personally believe its reasonable to think bitcoin will go back over a thousand a coin in the next few months.)

574$ now. you just need 75% price increase to achieve 1,000$
What had happened in the last months??


Personally I dont think the way the ico has gone so far is a good way to manage an ico. (extended time period including open market trading) but i dont have a solution and its far enough along that it doesnt matter. as ICOcountdown said, the long term rolling crowdfund allows them to continue to use funds raised for continuing development.

IPO is Ok


scenario a:
the current tokens price never takes off. it always sells for under the current ico price at the time. ohad and team work longer with less available funding. only 10% sells. 90% gets burnt

I give 10% probablity to this scenario
Given the situation in stock market+economy+currencywar, Bitcoin has 90% probabilities of moving to the next adoption phase in the next months


scenario b:
as a release becomes announced and testing begins maybe a la maidsafe style with MVP product etc. the interest increases, the price increases to match the sell side. at some point weeks later and a few price increases later the tokens are sold out and speculative open trading continues until full launch.

This scenario depends on 2 things:
- MVP product launch
- Bitcoin price increment timing
I dont know any of them. Only the team knows the first thing


these are extreme scenarios. though its been off to a slow fundraising start this past year i think the original goal was to raise $4-6 million. there have been plenty of icos lately raise that level of money.


Not extreme scenarios, but not likely in my opinion
We're not in the same situation as we were in 2015
This IPO is not a wellknown IPO.
This project needs more marketing


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June 05, 2016, 02:18:18 AM

I like this project, but this has to be one of the most confusing ICO's I've ever invested in.  Embarrassed

have a look at http://www.smithandcrown.com/event/tau-chain-agoras-presale/

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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June 05, 2016, 02:29:31 AM

scenario b:
as a release becomes announced and testing begins maybe a la maidsafe style with MVP product etc. the interest increases, the price increases to match the sell side. at some point weeks later and a few price increases later the tokens are sold out and speculative open trading continues until full launch.

This scenario depends on 2 things:
- MVP product launch
- Bitcoin price increment timing
I dont know any of them. Only the team knows the first thing


there can be many more good surprises. for example, the largest btc website in china (8btc) interviewed me and now translating it to chinese, while idni.org and youtube aren't even accessible from china (we made a mirror on idni.io). in the interview i also mentioned routers.space (recall the great firewall of china). interestingly there were a qq group of more than 40 chinese tau fans even before the mirror idni.io was up.
also i always get contacted by large firms. last one was Keyrus. i know that large firms have quite different state of mind than ours, but i guess over time the probability that some nice deal will be established, is high. especially after tau is ready or after partnering with another firm for the sake of the hardware side of routers.space

moreover, all along we do keep the marketing energies for after tau is ready, as now we really need the energies for dev. new materials (website, videos) are being made in the background, quite slowly as we prioritize dev

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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June 05, 2016, 02:34:43 AM

can see my english answers to 8btc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ifcIcQcHBtrUsLFw0kfSA1zI_wX8SINFiujTgGxhgXc/edit?usp=sharing

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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June 05, 2016, 02:39:12 AM

Should be stopped as soon as possible IPO


 for example someone who wants to buy an agoras token when bitcoin costs 10k will still have to spend 22 cents.

That's the point, you can buy from IPO at 22cents and from market at (lets guess) 2$.
Someone will buy from IPO and sell it to the market.
Which is not that bad because the project gets funded and there are more coins available for little investors.


(ignore the misquoting, originals above)

thanks for your level-headed responses.

I wanted to revisit this part. as I interpret it as backwards.
Currently the market is about half the price as buying from the IPO (which is partly a sell wall on the market and available direct from the website.)
the only way that it could sell for more on the market than from IPO would cause the IPO to sell out very quickly. I assume there is a quick turnaround time from posting an investment and receiving your coins even if its not instant/automated.

$MAID & $BTC other than that some short hodls and some long held garbage.
Rw13enlib88
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June 05, 2016, 07:26:15 PM

scenario b:
as a release becomes announced and testing begins maybe a la maidsafe style with MVP product etc. the interest increases, the price increases to match the sell side. at some point weeks later and a few price increases later the tokens are sold out and speculative open trading continues until full launch.

This scenario depends on 2 things:
- MVP product launch
- Bitcoin price increment timing
I dont know any of them. Only the team knows the first thing


there can be many more good surprises. for example, the largest btc website in china (8btc) interviewed me and now translating it to chinese, while idni.org and youtube aren't even accessible from china (we made a mirror on idni.io). in the interview i also mentioned routers.space (recall the great firewall of china). interestingly there were a qq group of more than 40 chinese tau fans even before the mirror idni.io was up.
also i always get contacted by large firms. last one was Keyrus. i know that large firms have quite different state of mind than ours, but i guess over time the probability that some nice deal will be established, is high. especially after tau is ready or after partnering with another firm for the sake of the hardware side of routers.space

moreover, all along we do keep the marketing energies for after tau is ready, as now we really need the energies for dev. new materials (website, videos) are being made in the background, quite slowly as we prioritize dev



Thanks for the update and for the transparency!

Getting China involved is wow, that's really big news!!

But I'm foreseeing a little problem for the chinese people.

If there are 40 people interested in AGRS but non of them has contacted you for buying (i guessing this) can be for (i'm also guessing the reasons  Cheesy):
A) Communication problems
B)Lack of trust in receiving their coins from dev 
C) Lack of trust in western exchanges (even if 2 cofounders of bittrex are chinese (this is the last info i've got, not sure if it's true))
D) Lack of info in chinese to completely understand the project
E) ...... [complete if you have any other reason]

For this reasons, involving 8btc solves all this problems.
A) No communication problem between exchange-investor
B) No need to trust dev to send them coins
C) No western exchange involved
D) 8btc can provide info about the coin/project


Anyway, no matter if those problems exist or no, the point is that once AGRS is in 8btc:
There are no coins in 8btc!!!  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

We are the ones who have to send coins to 8btc!!

So get ready guys, because you have a big business oportunity in front of your face!!!  Wink

Why making arbitrage is good for AGRS:
1) The price in all exchanges is the same
2) Chinese investors can buy AGRS at almost same price as westerns (price+commission)
3) Once price exceeds the IPO price, the project starts getting funded
4) The trader makes some money

What can happen if we dont provide liquidity?
Bittrex price:   20.000sat
IPO price:        40.000sat
8btc price:    350.000sat

So, get ready cos you'll have to buy from Bittrex to sell in 8btc to provide liquidity to chinese investors.
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