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Author Topic: Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network  (Read 165027 times)
ohad
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August 18, 2015, 03:51:45 PM
 #221


Nothing at that scope has to be predefined - it can be changed with time according to a method the users themselves set.
Like it is possible to create a coin over tau that will be programmed to change its behavior with votes of X% of clients, or stake, or anything.
So it is ok to "make mistakes" like letting the pool problems arise, and when it arises, just to change the rules without having to fork.

But you wrote something of a "basic logic", that can't be changed. So if someone wants to change that, for example to a logic, that makes all other included logic senceless?

ah, the logic itself means the very low level rules of logic, the foundation of mathematics, literally. like, you cannot modify modus ponens in tau, of course, and that's the low level we speak about here. or, you cannot have a block which is logically incosistent (i.e. contradicts itself).

please recall - tau stands for tautology! Smiley

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August 18, 2015, 03:54:29 PM
 #222

so, what happens for example, if someone starts a "51% attack" where the logic is manipulated in a way, that inconsistent blocks are allowed?
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August 18, 2015, 04:00:14 PM
 #223

so, what happens for example, if someone starts a "51% attack" where the logic is manipulated in a way, that inconsistent blocks are allowed?

51% attack is irrelevant here because a node doesn't have to believe the majority where it can verify logical consistency itself.

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August 18, 2015, 04:10:38 PM
 #224

Which goes back to the problem with Turing completeness. On Turing complete languages, you can prove a statement and also prove its negation!
An example is the Halting problem.
But any contradiction (like Russel's paradox) can be elevated in a Turing machine to prove *any* statement being both true and false.

To be more precise:
Godel gave us two options - completeness or consistency. Can't have both.
Turing completeness gives away consistency.
Martin-Lof type theory (tau's logic) is consistent, decidable, but is not complete only at the sense of infinite computers (in which Turing model allows).

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August 18, 2015, 04:28:30 PM
 #225

Ok, good to see, that you already thought about all those things. Just wanted to give suggestions.
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August 18, 2015, 04:29:16 PM
 #226

Ok, good to see, that you already thought about all those things. Just wanted to give suggestions.

And I thank you for that! Will be glad for more issues to be raised.

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August 19, 2015, 02:57:49 AM
 #227

I read the whitepaper, looked at the code, and with that understanding I can see Tau-Chain has massive potential.

The uncertainty is whether or not it can be developed to meet it's potential. If it can do what I think it can do, then it should be self funding and self sustainable once it gets up and running, similar to Bitshares, Ethereum, or NXT, where the community will be able to simply vote on proposals or fund new development using the market mechanisms.

Tau-Chain also has some unexpected surprises in how it has evolvability, which is something a lot of developers overlook. The only problem with Tau-Chain at this time is the difficulty in explaining the concept, and the uncertainty around whether or not it will work, but that is the same uncertainty Bitcoin had, Mastercoin had, Bitshares had, NXT, had, Ethereum had, so if you give money to Ohad consider it donation for the furthering of a science project which has potential to change the world if successful.



Thanks!
Would be nice if you could point to what you're not convinced is possible, and maybe I'll be able to point to existing implementations of such.

What I meant is that while everything about what you are doing is logically sound, the theory is correct, the uncertainty is whether or not you'll be able to build out the design with the limited funding you've received so far. The design is excellent so I can't really find any flaw with it but it also seems like it would take years to code.

What I like about it is that it seems to be the most scalable and flexible design possible, while also being secure. You've changed my opinions on Turing completeness, I now see that the Tauchain way of doing things is correct.
Please try to find a possiblity to prevent pool mining. This is in my opinion the biggest issue of BTC...

From my understanding, Tauchain can run Bitcoin inside it, or really run any practical implementation of any algorithm. So if Tauchain is built I don't see why you can't do far better than Bitcoin from within the Tauchain space.

Sorry if I'm not the best at explaining things but I see the same sort of potential with Tauchain that I saw with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is like an  app which can run on Tauchain, and all apps are just proofs, algorithms. So any app should be able to run on Tauchain in theory without any practical limitation. Ethereum will have some issues because of the insistence on being Turing complete which while sounding nice but I see no practical benefit yet I see security risks.

The only concern I have with Tauchain is people might not understand it. It has the potential but just like with Bitcoin, a lot of people might have to learn a lot of new concepts to understand what exactly it is. I suppose once there is a demo out there, so people can have some evidence that it works in practice rather than in theory, then we will see adoption.

The main issue I think people have when they first learn about Tauchain is that it is doing something they previously thought was impossible. Of course if you look at the references section of the whitepaper you can trace back the thought processes of Ohad to find that it is plausible, it just hasn't been tested in practice as far as I know. I've not seen anything like Tauchain built before, only talked about.


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August 20, 2015, 05:19:50 PM
 #228

Are you still selling the coins on materxchange? If so, has the price gone up from 0.0006?
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August 20, 2015, 05:35:23 PM
 #229

Are you still selling the coins on materxchange? If so, has the price gone up from 0.0006?

Yes, the price has been updated for two reasons: the 2% weekly price update, and adjusting the price according to the new BTC/USD rate. All according to the terms published here in february.
BTW even though you see several asks there, ours is only the highest one. The rest are by some early buyer as I mentioned a few comments above.

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August 20, 2015, 06:11:29 PM
 #230

BTW even though you see several asks there, ours is only the highest one. The rest are by some early buyer as I mentioned a few comments above.

So typical. These people are so annoying. Buying just to sell it on the first profit...
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August 20, 2015, 06:16:01 PM
 #231

BTW even though you see several asks there, ours is only the highest one. The rest are by some early buyer as I mentioned a few comments above.

So typical. These people are so annoying. Buying just to sell it on the first profit...

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

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August 21, 2015, 01:08:52 AM
 #232

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

What is the cheapest price those early investors paid?
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August 21, 2015, 01:16:12 AM
 #233

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

What is the cheapest price those early investors paid?

7.5 cent per coin

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August 21, 2015, 01:22:26 AM
 #234

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

What is the cheapest price those early investors paid?

7.5 cent per coin

wow  Shocked only 7.5 cent per coin Smiley

ohad
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August 21, 2015, 01:29:09 AM
 #235

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

What is the cheapest price those early investors paid?

7.5 cent per coin

wow  Shocked only 7.5 cent per coin Smiley

as published on feb https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838

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August 21, 2015, 08:02:21 PM
 #236

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

What is the cheapest price those early investors paid?

7.5 cent per coin

wow  Shocked only 7.5 cent per coin Smiley

as published on feb https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838

And now we are at 16.6 cents. 100% rise. Its a complitly Ponzi!

Just the jump last week was 20% (!) percent, instead of 2%.

I would suggest everyone to get the fingers away from this product.

After half a year of a ponzi life (start february) you can think, now the whales are coming inside and then three months later its makes boom.

Its kind of nerdy ponzi, but 99% ponzi. Early investors just waiting to get out. Nothing more or less.

No developer would spend so much time answering all the time the same questions here. You would have no time to work seriously, IMO.
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August 21, 2015, 08:05:43 PM
 #237

And now we are at 16.6 cents. 100% rise. Its a complitly Ponzi!

incentivizing early buyers is ponzi? it's even much modest rate than common.

Just the jump last week was 20% (!) percent, instead of 2%.

because all calculations are in USD rather BTC.

I would suggest everyone to get the fingers away from this product.

After half a year of a ponzi life (start february) you can think, now the whales are coming inside and then three months later its makes boom.

Its kind of nerdy ponzi, but 99% ponzi. Early investors just waiting to get out. Nothing more or less.

No developer would spend so much time answering all the time the same questions here. You would have no time to work seriously, IMO.

checkout the github, see I'm working very hard..

Tau-Chain & Agoras
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August 22, 2015, 04:14:28 PM
 #238

It is only one buyer (as can be seen in the block explorer), so I guess he got into liquidity problem, that's possible.

What is the cheapest price those early investors paid?

7.5 cent per coin

wow  Shocked only 7.5 cent per coin Smiley

as published on feb https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736447.msg10403838#msg10403838

And now we are at 16.6 cents. 100% rise. Its a complitly Ponzi!

Just the jump last week was 20% (!) percent, instead of 2%.

I would suggest everyone to get the fingers away from this product.

After half a year of a ponzi life (start february) you can think, now the whales are coming inside and then three months later its makes boom.

Its kind of nerdy ponzi, but 99% ponzi. Early investors just waiting to get out. Nothing more or less.

No developer would spend so much time answering all the time the same questions here. You would have no time to work seriously, IMO.

There are investors that believe in something and there are investors, that just want to get out with a good result.
But as an early investor you SHOULD get more than a later one. You wait for a long time with your money blocked and maybe lost.
I like to invest something in the first minutes and look at it after years. But not, if I can also wait for that 2 years and get the same piece of cake...
So go in, or don't but don't complain, that it's getting more expensive later fudster.
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August 25, 2015, 06:36:05 PM
 #239




The marketcap is 7 million USD. The project looks cool but I'm not sure if this should be valued at more than 1 million dollars right now today.



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August 25, 2015, 07:54:53 PM
 #240




The marketcap is 7 million USD. The project looks cool but I'm not sure if this should be valued at more than 1 million dollars right now today.




Can you make some sort of comparison to other projects and valuations?

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