Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network

[mr001]

Who else is working on this other than Ohad and HMC? This project really seems like it needs more developers. If you look at the comments throughout the thread dating back 1+ year the big work is 'only few months away from being done'.

How do you plan to beat out these projects? They arent all trying to achieve the same thing as Tau but why invest in Tau over them?
https://github.com/odipar/spread/
https://github.com/unisonweb/unison
http://ceptr.org/

Id like to put a lot of money into this as I believe in the idea but there really needs to be a team on this. I almost feel guilty writing asking for response because this is valuable time that should be used to develop.

With 7 mill market cap it should be possible to get more devs.

[ohad]

there are more developers, but the project will need much more developers after tau is ready. moreover, i have to write the code myself in order to fully understand it and support it over time.
maco144: the projects you mentioned doesn't seem to need someone external to beat them
and yes, i thought i'd finish the compiler sooner, and it didn't happen. still, the compiler isn't really a large or too complex project. every cs student writes a compiler to a more complicated language. the difficulty on tau is that it must be perfect for genesis (can't fix bugs later as proof of execution depends on the execution path).
for the total amount sold, see "presale snapshot" in the blog. we'll have a more accurate count on the new website.
and the project doesn't have $8M or even $100K.

[maco144]

there are more developers, but the project will need much more developers after tau is ready. moreover, i have to write the code myself in order to fully understand it and support it over time.
maco144: the projects you mentioned doesn't seem to need someone external to beat them
and yes, i thought i'll finish the compiler sooner, and it didn't happen. still, the compiler isn't really a large or too complex project. every cs student writes a compiler to a more complicated language. the difficulty on tau is that it must be perfect for genesis (can't fix bugs later as proof of execution depends on the execution path).
for the total amount sold, see "presale snapshot" in the blog. we'll have a more accurate count on the new website.
and the project doesn't have $8M or even $100K.

Thanks for responding. I understand that once Tau is completed that is the real accomplishment (and that it can be done by yourself/small team). My concern extends to two things. The first is to how critical you state the setting up of rules by the foundation users once genesis block is available, without a PR team bringing in a lot of intellectual talent, is it possible that genesis rules can be corrupted by selfish parties? I think cultivating a lot of deep thought on what you expect good genesis rules to be and fostering that discussion needs to be on the road map soon. Also, I see the time gap between Tau launch and Agoras implementation is where the team is really necessary. You have said this time period may be as long as year which seems like a huge hindrance to both development and to the investors interests. Do you have more specific ideas with what you'd do with the 2%/1% that the foundation will keep?

[ohad]

there are more developers, but the project will need much more developers after tau is ready. moreover, i have to write the code myself in order to fully understand it and support it over time.
maco144: the projects you mentioned doesn't seem to need someone external to beat them
and yes, i thought i'll finish the compiler sooner, and it didn't happen. still, the compiler isn't really a large or too complex project. every cs student writes a compiler to a more complicated language. the difficulty on tau is that it must be perfect for genesis (can't fix bugs later as proof of execution depends on the execution path).
for the total amount sold, see "presale snapshot" in the blog. we'll have a more accurate count on the new website.
and the project doesn't have $8M or even $100K.

Thanks for responding. I understand that once Tau is completed that is the real accomplishment (and that it can be done by yourself/small team). My concern extends to two things. The first is to how critical you state the setting up of rules by the foundation users once genesis block is available, without a PR team bringing in a lot of intellectual talent, is it possible that genesis rules can be corrupted by selfish parties? I think cultivating a lot of deep thought on what you expect good genesis rules to be and fostering that discussion needs to be on the road map soon. Also, I see the time gap between Tau launch and Agoras implementation is where the team is really necessary. You have said this time period may be as long as year which seems like a huge hindrance to both development and to the investors interests. Do you have more specific ideas with what you'd do with the 2%/1% that the foundation will keep?

there is a PR team working hard right now on new materials.
and indeed the initial tau rules may fail and we may need to restart the network. this can happen. though no loss in such case, since tau doesn't have any coin.
about publishing thoughts for what to be done after genesis - we have a principle not to do it now, as we don't want to affect or bias in any way what will happen post-genesis.
regarding specific long term dev plans, i guess replacing google, amazon, traditional dev hiring, the QA methodology, and some more published ideas are specific, long, and significant enough. besides anyone who knows me knows that we have more no-less-big plans for agoras that weren't published yet.
about the time between tau and agoras, the truth is that tau offers such a big change in how to develop software, that we don't know how things will look afterwards, but we do know that dev will get much easier over tau comparing to the traditional way.

[Pofick]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

[ohad]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

elastic is unsuccessfully trying to fulfill zennet's vision, in which we understood a year ago that ends up as a small feature in agoras

[allwelder]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

elastic is unsuccessfully trying to fulfill zennet's vision, in which we understood a year ago that ends up as a small feature in agoras

What about this one,seems like elastic and zennet.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1401477.0

[ohad]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

elastic is unsuccessfully trying to fulfill zennet's vision, in which we understood a year ago that ends up as a small feature in agoras

What about this one,seems like elastic and zennet.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1401477.0

looks even worse than elastic

[allwelder]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

elastic is unsuccessfully trying to fulfill zennet's vision, in which we understood a year ago that ends up as a small feature in agoras

What about this one,seems like elastic and zennet.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1401477.0

looks even worse than elastic

Another,why do you think they are just unsuccessfully trying?
They tried to realize it with a NXT style POS.

[ohad]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

elastic is unsuccessfully trying to fulfill zennet's vision, in which we understood a year ago that ends up as a small feature in agoras

What about this one,seems like elastic and zennet.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1401477.0

looks even worse than elastic

Another,why you think unsuccessfully trying?
They tried to realize it with a NXT style POS.

elastic's under-construction design doesnt seem to converge to something that makes sense
scn doesnt seem to even have that

[allwelder]

Agoras marketplace is close to Elastic project, isn't it?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1396233.0

elastic is unsuccessfully trying to fulfill zennet's vision, in which we understood a year ago that ends up as a small feature in agoras

What about this one,seems like elastic and zennet.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1401477.0

looks even worse than elastic

Another,why you think unsuccessfully trying?
They tried to realize it with a NXT style POS.

elastic's under-construction design doesnt seem to converge to something that makes sense
scn doesnt seem to even have that

Thanks for reply.

[James_H]

whether the currently available android wallet ?

Thanks before

[ohad]

whether the currently available android wallet ?

Thanks before

there exists this one https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.meshcollision.wallet.omnicoin
but i have no experience nor knowledge regarding it so don't take this as a recommendation

[James_H]

whether the currently available android wallet ?

Thanks before

there exists this one https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.meshcollision.wallet.omnicoin
but i have no experience nor knowledge regarding it so don't take this as a recommendation

Oh...thanks mate! 

[mr001]

What about this project? It is similar to Ta-Chain?

https://www.bigchaindb.com/

[ohad]

What about this project? It is similar to Ta-Chain?

https://www.bigchaindb.com/

it's similar to tau's dht layer.
can be viewed as some upgraded design of storj.
yet tau is mainly about running code, rather storing and reasoning over it which are important parts as well.
tau's code is written in rdf (facts and rules) which is "the new sql", and tau's reasoner is basically querying a database. so-called "rule engine". just existing rdf rule engines don't have MLTT logic, as they're Turing complete.

[ohad]

English translation of a Hebrew talk I gave on a Bitcoin conference recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utggm7cuGbo (enable subtitles)

[mr.coinzy]

Great lecture!

[maco144]

That was indeed a fantastic lecture, thanks for posting.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge of semantic web at this point but will there be a way for developers who are familiar with other OO languages to write code into the tauchain? It seems like it would be a huge mainstream adoption hurdle to overcome if all people have to write/find in the RDF family. I understand that having provable code is the whole point of Tau and RDF allows that, I just see limitations if anyone who wants to adopt has to understand RDF to write it or create the requirements to check if it is already in the chain.

Other than dogma, is there a reason to make this a public project? What is stopping Ohad from going private with this once it gets close and keeping this incredible technology to a business of his own? I generally don't understand why this needs to have a public element to it at all other than having strong ideals.

I think Im going to gamble and invest a lot in this, the payoff is huge.

[ohad]

That was indeed a fantastic lecture, thanks for posting.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge of semantic web at this point but will there be a way for developers who are familiar with other OO languages to write code into the tauchain? It seems like it would be a huge mainstream adoption hurdle to overcome if all people have to write/find in the RDF family. I understand that having provable code is the whole point of Tau and RDF allows that, I just see limitations if anyone who wants to adopt has to understand RDF to write it or create the requirements to check if it is already in the chain.

Other than dogma, is there a reason to make this a public project? What is stopping Ohad from going private with this once it gets close and keeping this incredible technology to a business of his own? I generally don't understand why this needs to have a public element to it at all other than having strong ideals.

I think Im going to gamble and invest a lot in this, the payoff is huge.

thanks, RDF doesn't have a decidable logic! it's tau's innovation to combine MLTT with RDF, which will allow provable code.
RDF is a family of languages, well known and one of the most widely used.
Tau is built in a way that it can have additional frontends, namely, every language will work as long as it is translated to triples/quads or equivalent.
the reason the project is public is that it is exactly what the project is about. it has nothing new to offer otherwise. more info is all around, but to name two posts: http://www.idni.org/blog/decentralized-democracy and www.idni.org/blog/projectroadmap