Well got a reply from Innsolicon sent them the above. The 6c USD per kWh I quote below is MAYBE SOMETHING I could dig up in Canada, but iffy, this is from some folk

that are 'grandfathered' in at such rates already. So I was using below the most OPTIMISTIC values I could glean. Also, the ROI is a stretch in reality, but give you some

basis to see how far you MAY need to go at current BTC price and difficulty. The unit below is the Innsolicon T30 at 30TH and 2,200 watts. I assume others could get this

unit from them in the next couple days at below if they were to ask, but unsure. Anyway. Below is a 30TH unit at 2,200 watts, shipped to Canada ($50 shipping assumption) and

added the 13% VAT for Federal and Province combined for Canada. The 'supposed' $50 setup 1-time fee to the data hall. Etc. Again, this is my most 'optimistic' view on a data

hall at 6c kWh vs the mostly? only? I've found in the USA at 8c kWh USD. But again, with the 27.6% tariff and import fees combined in the USA that has its own issues even

at 6c kWh in the USA.

Anyway my reply to Innsolicon below (mostly just to vent..I kinda think they know this already and are 'hoping' they can move some product in some manner anyway)

my reply to the 25% offer on current listed Innsolicon web page price as stated on this thread below:


quote

Sorry to say with the 27.6% tariff and import fees in the USA that is out...even if I shipped them to Canada at 6c kWh...it just

does not make any sense. See what to mine calculations below: Your site says $980.00 USD for the 30TH at 2,200 watts.

With the 13% VAT rate to ship to Canada direct the price is now $1,030.00 USD. Plus say $50 shipping, as a guess, to make

the total $1,080.00 USD. Once at the data hall there is a one time $50 setup fee. So now it is $1,130.00 USD.

So total invested to get a T30 30TH 2,200-watt unit to Canada at a 6c kWh rate above is again, in place, the above.

https://whattomine.com/  states I'd make $1.64 per day profit after electric.

What to mine says I'd make at a FLAT difficulty and current price of $8,225.00 USD per BTC

at $1,130.00 USD divided by $1.64 (again assuming above FLAT difficulty (unlikely) and FLAT price (unlikely)

that would come out to an ROI of 689 days to ROI.

Again, this is shipping to CANADA with only a 13% VAT. To the USA with a 27.6% Tariff and import fee, it would be

much uglier. Indeed.

Anyway, I figured someone at your end could look at my above math. It is way, way too ugly for me to get any unit from you.

Indeed if it was 50% off that would still be like over on year to ROI. I understand you have issues with price

and difficulty and the cost of production and likely this is the best you can do. But again, best price I can find

for small fry in the USA is 8c kWh. The most common is 10c kWh. Canada with issues above is 6c kWh.

Anyway, thanks for listening..but this boat doesn't float.

Hopefully, other parts of the world will help you out on this or BTC will pump. But not looking good.

later

Brad Weelborg

Searing on www.bitcointalk.org

end quote

Anyway, for what it is worth, being small fry and all, I guess I'm in FULL HODL mode.

HOPEFULLY, this will be helpful to someone IN Canada, that can get equipment USED with no VAT from their data hall or some such.

As for me, just can't justify it without a pretty big pump in BTC price and/or a sure thing 6c kWh in the USA and the 25% tariff goes away.

That is probably, too many 'ducks to line up in a row' to make this in any way possible this year and maybe even most if not all of 2020.

The math truly sucks!

Anyway, maybe the above will help someone with better options.

Brad

Well, got the email..ran the calcs...with 27.6% tariff and import fees to the USA and shipping...this boat don't float at these prices at all...indeed unsure if it even

floats without the tariff...anyway got the email today (the special ended yesterday) no biggie I guess. Gonna have to be quite the change in crypto for anyone

in the USA to ever get into mining again. a 2-for...in other words price of crypto/BTC has to go way up/ difficulty has to flatline or go sideways/ tariff has to go away in the USA

the price of equipment has to be ALWAYS at least at your 25% off sale rate...and of course, say 8c-10c kWh electric in the USA....(there are claims of 6c kWh in North America/Canada

but have not bothered to delve into this and look due to above constraints on getting ASIC equipment vs HODL)...damn, that is a LOT of moving parts that have to line up

for someone in the USA to get back into ASIC mining. So pretty much looks like I'm done for this year and maybe 2020 too boot. Good luck to those who only have like 3 out of

the 6 above constraints. I'm out.

   

Delete

Naw. This thread is crap.

I THINK the prices seen on the Innsolicon site are with the 25% off till today point the OP made.

Still, way too high compared to what you get vs 'evil' Bitmain. No way getting equipment now makes any sense in any way/shape/form.

Just buy and HODL is the motto now. Also even more moot in the USA, with the 26.7% tariff and import fees plus shipping added to Innsolicion price or Bitmain

or whatever. What a clusterf**k.

Lisk currently is priced at on the site www.coinmarketcap.com 75c USD.
 
Thus it is 3x the 25c USD original ICO price I got LISK at, back in the day, again through the Initial Coin Offering (ICO) for LISK.

At one time it was over $30.00 USD.

I'm not sure what the definition of a 'dead coin' is, but I'm pretty sure LISK is getting 'damn close" to such.

Just stating the facts as they exist at this point in time.

Brad

As best I can tell you can ignore that. The link does not seem to go anyplace. Just use the signature you need to use the OP mentions at the begining of this thread.

As you can see your avatar/signature/etc above looks like mine and I'm getting paid just fine for my meager postings.

brad

Ok...I want to belive in Unicorns Farts smelling of cinnamon/Rainbows/ASIC makers telling me 25% off on product via a no trust www.bitcointalk.org account!

I contacted https://www.innosilicon.com/ via email contact on the site. We will see. I think it is MORE likely that I could become Natalie Portman's Love

Puppet...but hey...I guy can dream of both I guess.

I'll let folk know here should I get a reply. (dubious, very dubious such will happen ..except to mock me)

later

Brad

Well, the last week has been that way for sure. No PR. No updates on Mimblewimble nor anything AFTER Mimblewimble. Not like any 'coders' I've seen. All alpha/beta

/final/release.

Concentration in full on one development aspect (Mimblewimble) then when released you have a beer and figure out what is next?

Stuff should be in line for what is next at least in 'theory' after Mimblewimble ...if for no other reason than fun and to keep the LTC masses satisfied on progress.

Sheesh.

Even Bitmain (that bastion of evil) says it is going to pursue 5nm chips and then 3nm chips, next year, likely lying..but hey at least they make some noise.

If a Litecoin Developer Fell in the woods, would you hear a sound?

Brad

Damn, Bitcoin Needs More Cowbell for Price and Adoption!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVsQLlk-T0s

None of the ones that I've been told about have replied by rate. I too have heard about this, but in my experience, back in the day when I could fine such, you needed to have 15-50 miners, some with setup fees of $50 per miner. Again, likely not as harsh now for setup, but still. I have friends that have been locked in or grandfathered in at 8c kWh. They had their data hall raise their fee to 9.5c kWh and they are not giving up their spot. Also, a lot of the 6c kWh have no remote access and very, very sh*ty support. Or again, so it was when I looked 6 months to a year ago for comparisons.

Just may-be the way it is for small miners now. Just saying, I've had one reply (see the thread for the messages above) out of 7 email questions on REAL rates.

Brad

IMHO, an overlooked problem with all scrypt-pow coins and Litecoin is the fact of about, again IMHO, 70-75% of all scrypt-pow miners in general and Litecoin

in particular are Bitmain L3's or L3+'s. Thus until 'miner capitulation' happens and all these are too old to mine and are shut off, at best Litecoin will go sideways

in price or dump even more in price and usefulness.

Adding, to this mess,  the low LTC price and the lack of any progress  or development with Litecoin (or at least no PR of such of any note if such progress exists)

it makes the whole future of Litecoin look dire indeed, again IMHO.

Brad

If someone on Bitcointalk is brave enough to pick up a unit in this manner on Alibaba above,  feel free to post your success or lack of success here.

Me, I'm not brave enough and so far don't know of any who are brave enough, with a high enough Bitcoin/Rank/Trust rating to take their word

on such. Again, hard to step up on stuff like this with all the newbie scammer accounts on here.

Maybe if I was a Bitcoin Whale, I'd do this, but don't have enough BTC to pull off such a stunt myself.

Whoever tries this Chump or Champ, let us know.

Newbie accounts will likely be ignored, even if all is well on this...because you know newbie accounts are misused badly on Bitcointalk. Which is why

we are having this discussion with the OP here on this thread on Bitcointalk in the first place.

Good Luck!

Brad

I made an order but used a credit card (Amex) with the 1/3 down via Paypal. PayPal denied my order as being more than 45 days, I did not file a dispute in time.

Then at first Amex denied my refund of 1/3. Until I pointed out how Alpha Tech strung me along. Also beyond the time limit, but Amex listened,

even after the dispute time (45 days) had run out. Also pointed out that they sent as proof my PAID IN FULL (as stamped) order, I pointed out the 1/3 down

only paid scammer way they were rolling on all this to PayPal.  When in fact, again,

I only paid (like everyone) via PayPal for 1/3 down. They saw that and from what I heard from them later they hit Alpha's Paypal Bank account so hard with other refunds

the bank cut them off. So got my $$$ back by the skin of my teeth. Always, always use the credit card option with PayPal. Even if PayPal says

no go, you can at least appeal to the credit card place. Amex is great, never lost a dispute. This was the closest I came in that I had to appeal.

Dumb frigging luck.

The same miracle with Butterfly Labs refunds after a year of denial. I happened to be one of the FEW refunded 1 week before the SEC

closed BFL down. I think they were trying to hold off the SEC by showing some refunds. It did not work, but I did get a big surprise 1 year after losing

all hope.

I was a 'clueless' 'kool-aid' drinking newbie, back in the day. Lucky as f*ck! I look at some of the clueless stuff I tossed Bitcoin/Crypto at and did not

get burnt and just shake my head in dismay. The 'kool-aid' was strong back in 2013 onward.....less so today. Now I just HODL.

Brad

I resemble that remark. But again...really..move stuff to Canaday for a say $120 buck savings for a WHOLE 6 months? (see previous posts) With these equipment prices? With rising electric prices for winter rates in the USA from last winter? (Informally, I've been told by a couple of people about 1.5c kWh rise in price on some data halls so far). Then add the WOW rising difficulty and the fact that Bitmain is STILL selling out at what I consider 1/3 too high a price on frigging pre-orders for crying out loud! Then the kiss of death. Add the 27.6% Tariff on any Chinese ASIC miner from China with of course shipping to boot. Add altcoin prices and BTC prices to above and we are well and truly f*ck*d! Well, if once. we were a boat sailing our ASIC's on the Crypto Ocean...now we are a Submarine...limping to ground ourselves on the beach!

I was offered an S9 with $32 buck shipping at $180 the other day. An S9j at $225 with $32 shipping also. Neither makes a bit of sense unless you have cheap electric and are in dire need of a space heater at your say, office cubicle at work, on the bosses dime. I'm so far out of this I'm in another planet!

Man, what a cluster!

Brad

I bow to your hard-won 'expertise' on this matter.  You are damn lucky to have made it out after your ordeal. I hope all is well and calm in your life these days.

brad

Actually, that might work out. Women's lines are always longer to the restroom at concerts and such. I'd rather chat them up in line instead anyway.

As for companies. Hey, only 1 restroom needed! All that $$ saved. Win/Win.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is how it works. Just the way it is. Not a big deal if you are not making posts to get BTC from the campaign. All part of posting on Bitcointalk for content and

readability and on topic.

Brad

From what I can tell. With $37.00 in yobit...the price to move such would be $10...thus letting it ride....on the exchange.....too depressing to pull it out as of now..

denial..it is how I roll.

Well, looking at the above using the current prices...for a 6-month plan...the difference from what I can tell paying on their 6-month plan is about $120 vs around 9.5-10c kWh and the rate above mentioned of 0.00735 above....(check my math) ballpark figure, however, we are talking about say $240 a year or $20 bucks a month average more or less, kinda sorta..on the above 6-month plan...I mean really? Big friggin whoop. So the elephant in the room is the cost of mining equipment and tariff and of course cost of a coin (BTC) vs BTC out and of course risk...when contemplating getting a miner. Again, at $120 in electric for 6 months...stay frigging away!

So from what I can tell, this thread and me being the OP is likely MOOT...on this topic..even more so when you add the tariff...likely we need ASIC's of the 5nm or 3nm variety well into 2020 before anyone can make a case for mining anymore. Assuming the price of BTC  is back to say $15k vs difficulty and such to likely even make that do'able for the small miner folk.

So, from a new miner perspective and no tariff by say Saturday...for the cost savings talked about....you're a lot better off just HODL'ing coin now than at any time in the past. With pre-orders of 2-4 months, no consequences for late delivery, the likelihood that the BTC will pump that you spent on a miner even without the tariff...there are just too many variables for this to make any sense...With electric likely being the lamest barrier of 2c-3c differences as part of this whole non-profit and likely to stay non-profit mining attempt of anybody to ROI well into the future. It is as risky a play as I've ever seen since I got into mining in 2013. So again, eye-opening that 2-3c kWh makes so little difference in the whole risk equation of getting ASIC equipment at this time as to be laughable. So anyway, hopefully, this thread is 'helpful' with options and its 2-3c kWh differences in price..to somebody that may be down the block from some data hall at a lower rate or nearby or something. But again, tossed in the blender of all the reasons not to buy... these savings don't amount to beans in even running ASIC's you already own..much less new ASIC's. So anyway, ASIC drought because of this or folk will continue to buy overpriced pre-order ASIC's into the future on a hope and a prayer that price of BTC/Crypto will save their ROI. I find this unlikely indeed.

So anyway, for a frigging $120 a month say, the difference for a 6-month plan in excess..that is the least of everyone's problem with any type of ASIC mining IMHO. So on reflection on above, 'sitting on hands' and 'covering ears' in horror is probably the best option to take on mining anything well into 2020 at least! This whole electricity price question is pretty lame in comparison to all the above. So sad, I really, really, liked ASIC mining. Then again, I used to like 'fast women' as well. Both are unlikely to work out and cost a lot of $$$...so I'd recommend folk pass and look at the electric savings we are talking about in the proper context. That context as I see it now, is we are utterly screwed to ASIC mine as small fry WELL into 2020 and perhaps 2021 or hell, perhaps never. I am distraught.

(sheesh...the above is sooooooo ugly)

end of rant

Brad

newbie account avoid..no escrow..no independent review on here by a trusted member ...supposedly only can get via Alibaba..if you are crazy enough
to get one through Alibaba let us know here..but until some more proof ..most of us (me included) are calling this a scam.

Not that hard for a big ASIC maker to send a unit for independent review ..nor hard at all to due escrow...thus likely scam, sorry to say

later

Brad