It seems you forgot about the utility aspect for the pure reason that you, personally don't have one for it.
The thing is, I can find lots of things to do with bitcoins. But in virtually all cases, it is much faster, convenient and liquid to use dollars. None of the bitcoin revolutionists here have explained -- what can you do with bitcoin that you can't do more easily with fiat? You can store value / invest. And you can buy drugs in mail. What else? I find shopping with BTC a lot more convenient. I don't need to give away the necessary details for charging my account. By the nature of my work, I travel awfully lot. I got sting by card fraud many times which is quite annoying. I can do international transfers very quickly and without horrendous wait times and fees. I can buy desired things which are not sold in my country (electronics, domains and many more). As I said it previously, the usefulness of BTC is highly dependent on personal circumstances and geolocation. Saying that it won't be mainstream is ignorant in my opinion. maybe it will maybe it won't. time will tell. I don't see anything fundamental here, though. I mean, I get it, you like bitcoin. (So do I.) And great, there's a niche of tech geeks that like it too. Like this guy-- Many people, including me, are captivated more by the technological aspects of the currency, and how different it is to anything which has come before, more than the black market aspect (myself included).
It is as revolutionary as the invention of the Internet itself, and is the first P2P currency to EVER be created.
 I'm all for bitcoin as a payment system. I love anonymity and irreversible payments. But it's just so terribly illiquid. No one uses it. Whenever I've had to get cash to people, domestically or internationally, instant bank transfers and teller deposits (no/low fee) do the trick -- and that's how anyone I've ever known wants it (well, aside from those that require wires). I get the credit card fraud thing... and while that may hurt the image of credit cards for those affected by it, the BTC economy being the scam haven it is doesn't exactly help bitcoin's image either (in terms of adoption). I will say that when I have been a victim of CC fraud, the process was easy and my money was never in limbo. In the bitcoin economy, it is the Wild Wild West -- good luck getting recourse when your accounts are hacked, shady companies run off with your money, people defraud you, etc. I don't live under a rock, but I've met one person, ever, who uses bitcoins and he is strictly a trader. I get that bitcoin can be used as a currency. By and large, it isn't, though. Perhaps someday. I don't think I said anything like bitcoin "won't be mainstream"... but it isn't. If you use bitcoin as a matter of convenience, I guarantee the vast majority of people (including myself) will use fiat as a matter of convenience. That, and as a matter of peace of mind, as I for one don't necessarily want to hold coins for long. Talking as if we are in some alternate reality where lots of people actually use bitcoin -- as many seem to do around here -- is just a pointless circle jerk. I still see only two fundamental uses -- investment and black market trade. The rest is geek novelty and cult mentality, which, somehow, people around here pass off as utility. I'm curious -- in regards to products you can buy with bitcoin (and not fiat? more conveniently than fiat?) what are you talking about, some more examples, web sites? From the perspective of someone who isn't actively involved with bitcoin and thus wouldn't be holding it, is this still true? I just don't see it. |
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It seems you forgot about the utility aspect for the pure reason that you, personally don't have one for it.
The thing is, I can find lots of things to do with bitcoins. But in virtually all cases, it is much faster, convenient and liquid to use dollars. None of the bitcoin revolutionists here have explained -- what can you do with bitcoin that you can't do more easily with fiat? You can store value / invest. And you can buy drugs in mail. What else? |
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^ a short term uptick was necessary and expected...before resuming the overall medium term downward trend...the pattern remains: lower highs and lower lows...that pattern has not been broken yet....
How can you say that after checking out the 12 hour chart, such as below: http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusdWe have just seen the biggest move up for 2 months. A new pattern is emerging. At some point reversals have to happen, unless it is in terminal decline. I remember watching the Enron share price in late '01 (didn't have any, fortunately) and it just kept going down and down. When it hit $8 the Bloomberg guys were having a fit saying that it must turn around soon. It didn't, the company collapsed and it went to zero. Unless Bitcoin is in terminal decline we will not see a permanent downtrend. In fact the last four years has shown it is the ultimate financial instrument on the planet. I think it will remain so, based on remarkable fundamentals, and so do many other people. Enron. NOT Bitcoin chart:  I don't see how we drop from 115 to 65 without bouncing. Who said anything about permanent? Even the bears don't think bitcoin is "dying." But I'll say -- I'm certainly not at the point where I'm thinking the downtrend might be over. My medium term outlook will change if we break 115 on volume, but I'm pretty skeptical of triple digits here. Still hoping for a retrace to 96 territory, though. |
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The world is big and there are many reasons to acquire BTC.
such as? This. lucas.sev is spot on IMO, but maybe you have something interesting to say besides the "bitcoin revolution" cult drivel? |
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This is the first bounce after dropping from 110 to 65. You really think that means the downtrend is over?
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I must be in denial because I don't buy this "rally" for a minute.
Why not? Pretty nice sucker rally from 60s. Extracting myself some nice dollars.  Sucker's rallies dont generally include million dollar market orders. With bidwall backing. And those asks? They arent refilling. The bids? Still up. Well over 11 million now. Yeah, but the bounce from 65 to 78 was more organic. |
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I must be in denial because I don't buy this "rally" for a minute.
Why not? Pretty nice sucker rally from 60s. Extracting myself some nice dollars. |
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I just don't see it. I mean, I'm holding some coins and I really want to see it. But I don't.
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The problem with buying right now is that wall at $80 was tested and was neither bought through nor was it pulled. Market is too scared of dumps for real upward movement. Plus, if you ship the price back to $90 how are you ever going to trigger fear and capitulation and collection tens and tens of thousands of coins sub $50-40-30?
What's a bubble deflating without some bounce here and there? I'm still waiting for my sub-$50 coins.  |
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you should include amount of produced bitcoins in that too. in 2011 there was way less people interested in bitcoin and reward was 7200 but now there is way more people and 2 times less bitcoins produced. Why nobody is writing in bold that basically the 2013 run up was started shortly after reduction of reward? Because there was not enough bitcoins produced to keep price low. Then how are you expecting the price to fall to very low values like in 2011 considering we have whole new situation here?
I am not expecting anything. there are many people who are expecting price to be $30 but what if they realise that this price is never going to happend. Then they will want to buy for higher price creating another strong move upwards. There are many people expecting the price to move strongly upwards, but what if they realize this will never happen? Then they will want to sell for a lower price creating another strong move downwards.  |
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Maybe wallzilla will market buy. Stop playing with my emotions! |
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Bears around here can appear more trollish, but the crazy cult mentality of some of the bulls takes the cake. Still plenty of this around. Someone speculates about price drop, and then, "but bitcoin is the future! This is a revolution! Just buy!"
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Almost 20k to break 70 now. Edit: And it's gone LOL, 8500 to break 70. |
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I dumped 10% back into BTC in high 60s. Don't let me down, lucif! |
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I may stop trying to ride these bull traps. The bounces seem to be getting smaller, almost non-existent... sell pressure is relentless. When I sell the coins bought at 76-79, I'm waiting this out a bit I think. Come on, though, one push to 85! |
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Even at $2, the asic miners will keep on running their machines.
^^^ This is your problem, right here. |
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Please don't give me this crap again how he is allowed to have an opinion.
  Oh, you! I had a few bids fill when we dropped under 80, was hoping for more of a bounce. Lets go, bulls, sucker rally time! |
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