Let me start this by saying I have actually made a mistake in this thread from what I can see. I thought he had more copy and pastes (which he has) and I salute the reporters for trying to weed out scammers. I was thinking this was case closed.

However....

Please study this carefully. I have a lot of sympathy for these particular copy and pastes the more I read them. I think he deserves another chance here. Or actually on the basis of these he is being misunderstood especially on some of them.

1. the cryptopia alert about the coins swap = great post worthy of merit - save people a lot of money and stop them getting scammed by devs who do sneaky swaps and keep vast bulks of the minting.

2. the other one is annoucement regarding the project on their face book and is just an obvious update for the community = worthy of merit too.

I am particularly sensitive to this one because I was asked to help a (great legitimate long term project) and I was going to be responsible for copy and pasting their latest twitter updates onto  the bitcointalk thread for them because they did not have time (no financial gain for me just doing it for free for them to keep the bitcointalk members updated on news.  I am more of a fan of bitcointalk than they are and the community thread here to me is more important that moving to slack and other places. It is important the community here for that project is kept updated. Not everyone checks the projects twitter or facebook really and projects can look dead even if a lot of work is being done and reported on social media.

He could have a strong case if there is not much more.  

I should have read it more clearly before.  I didn't see he was copy and pasting from the projects facebook news to the same projects thread. I originally though it was a lot more real plagiarism or scam posting.

I support the work reporters are doing 100% and it is a lot to ask them to find and then do a complete analysis.  However on the basis of just what is presented he looks like he isn't deserving of perma ban.

If there is more then I can't say but only going on what I have looked at so far.

News about a projects face book pasted to their thread is not negative it is very positive for this board. If people start leaving bitcointalk because the news updates are not here and having to go to the projects social media that is crap. Projects got their start here and should not after they have extracted btc feel they no longer need to appeal to the members of this forum or keep them informed.

If there is additional that are not beneficial that is a different matter.

I will try to prevent any legends getting banned for this unless they are truly plagiarists and negative to the board. However I do support the work of those reporting real plagiarism and getting the alt sections back to being more easy to use.

Thanks, yes that certainly explained why there are no DT trust of some of these obvious merit abusers. This legend gave 50 merits out twice to more or less the same post and those accounts were analysed and look highly probable to be his own.

I guess most things can be gamed.

I would introduce zero tolerance from today forward not for early days offences for sure. But legends whom have even some posts predating the rules and from an era where there was hardly any incentive to post for profit then I would certainly give some chances to them. Not instant ban.

Honestly if you look lots of legends have been banned already. I am concerned we will lose lots of legends. I would prefer to lose only scammers and spammers really if possible.

It may be worth it making a thread of banned legends so that if later there is possibility of in depth evaluation later then you can be on it.

It's not good to see lengends banned I hate losing the older members.

Perhaps the laws of physics in some cases...

Being a human and doing your best to be fair is a lot tougher than being a robot of course.  I will still try my best though. I believe in giving benefit of the doubt really... Until the threshold of being fair is blatantly being abused.

If you had read my post clearly you would have noticed I was replying to Kopyleft on that part.  
That is why it says @kopyleft, anything under that notice is for the attention of kopyleft.

I am sad you lost your legend account. I was trying to help you but it seems there are too many instances for me to try to build a case in your favour.

 I still think even though there were several instances they are still like announcements now that i look at them again really so it's not exactly as trying to claim as your own work. but then adding ref link will might mark you down I am just saying that due to more being found quickly by people it is hard to fight against it.

However if they are banning for just 1 and there are lots there is no point to try now unless they are all announcements? the cryptopia one is an announcement so I would let that one be okay for sure....especially as that one is to actually help people get their coins swapped over before it is too late.

 This is vital piece of information actually or people can lose a lot of money. That post kopyleft wrongly mentioned is actually worthy of merit for you really. I will explain why. People owning coins getting swapped for new coins often will not tell others because the less swapped over the more their stake is. So the fact you are telling people actually does tell me you are not actually a scammer. telling people of a swap date actually reduces your stake. I have missed out on a few swaps that cost me quite a bit.

I suspect it was lost in the language barrier that I was trying to help you??  I am the only person here that feels legends generally should be allowed a couple of small mistakes over the years.


Oh well.

Your best hope is directly with theymos I would say.

Are there no enforceable rules regarding merit abuse?? No neg trust even in serious cases??

I would suggest powering up each others merit or even your own alts merit is quite a dangerous practice.

It is actually like cheating really because you are allowing accounts to rank up and gain trust in an unfair way.  These are obviously less deserving in trust than those that do not do this.

 Trust score you say is for trust but for me a lot of faith is put in rank too perhaps just as much. I mean would you trust a legend with 0 trust or a jnr with 20 trust.

You can see that a person doing this kind of thing should demonstrate their entire account has far less real merit than those that gain their merits in a fair way and far less merit even than person that have zero or less merit.

I think Negative DT is a minimum needed to alert person of blatant trust abuse.

I have seem some account just give 50 x merit 2x  to highly probable alts and that legend has seemingly no consequences at all? the posts were laughable and to get 50 merits for almost the same exact 2 posts??

Merit is always going to be gamed a bit but to see it go down like that and no DT is commenting then I am sure there must be a good reason that I am not seeing?

Can anyone shed some light.

This is a serious question. Since I see we are now tightening up ship here to expel scammers and scam enablers and rightly so... what am I missing with these types of cases?

Agree on the remove sigs ... a year for each offence found or just for good.

Agree nobody in their right mind would do it for free. Although I would expect a bot could easily be coded to run their entire post history against google for matches. They could pay for this if they want to not get banned or pay for manual review. I dont expect most would mind paying 0.1 btc for review and keeping their account.

I mean we are talking 1 in 1000 posts. Not real ico pump teams and scammers fucking the board up.

It may be best to remove all sigs anyway.

I personally do not care about what lower rank users say about that most commenting on it have been here 5 mins. We could make a criteria 1 copy and paste per 1000 good posts. Applied to all.

That's retroactive. From now on zero tolerance and that is a default PM all new joiners get and a mass message sent out to all anyway.

Yep ban their sigs,  slap them back to snr member. But to lose your legendary account here is the loss of all your work. Some have put a solid year of their lives ....solid in hour terms into this board.  To have that deleted is massive over 1 copy and paste.

We all know really there was no worry that much about this until the real ico scammers, pumpers bot and other board destroyers turned up.  

Fair enough case closed.

Why do they even appeal if it just not 1 or 2 mistake and not for financial gain.

Best thing to make a sticky telling them to check they are not just general plagiarist offenders who seek only financial gain.

What a waste of a legend account. These are not going to be that easy to build from scratch now.

hillarious etc

are you referring to the penguin coin swap  announcement?

I don't consider it a waste of time for a legend account in light of what theymos has said, the reporter (not the mod) should have the onus on them to evaluate the account they are reporting and suggest a punishment. There can be many reporters but hardly any mods.

Or another possibility is  offending legend pay a mod 0.1 BTC to review it properly and see if they consider it to meet certain criteria to be net positive.

I am seeing a few legend accounts going now. These are not you typical bot spammers and frequent plagiarist text spinners that are ruining the board.  Well not unless there are frequent instances not being reported.




@Kopyleft

you are wrong. and it is easy to comment when your account is a few days old and not something that people may have put years of hard work into. also you have not spend years reading constantly here have any concept of the history of some legends here and what difference they have made.

it is quite annoying to see people here 5 mins and at time gloating at legends getting banned for 1 or 2 mistakes.

what are you even doing on meta? i know this is the easiest place to gain merits but get on on the real boards and start becoming parts of crypto projects , join some communities, contribute to them, learn, find what ones have real passionate developers with specialised use cases and are capable of finishing their designs. What are you doing lurking around a board you have no real connection to as yet on the sub board concerned with the mechanism of how to improve the function of the board.?? seems weird i didnt even know about meta for several years.

LOL

Please be sensible that is not plagiarism that is a cryptopia announcement  posting that to alert people here who may not have seen the notice their coins are danger if they do not see this is totally helpful.

Let's not start being completely crazy here.

His other one yes that is stupid error. I wonder if there are more or just an isolated case?

You can see it is announcement from cryptopia in the first line.  


@s therapist

What exactly do you mean about the Announcement board in the altcoins section? I don't see what you mean?

Bitcoin discussion is like posting in the satoshi one on one tuition forum compared to alt discussion. You could try serious discussion but really that does not seem to have taken off yet.

I think junior forums are the only answer with merit/rank requirement to continue on main boards.  noob jail with decentralised appraisal of juniors to be elavated ... a postive way to spend a few hours rather than the negativity of reporting.

Although with continued bear market a lot will drop away over time leaving only the real enthusiasts and long term supporters.

If you can really prove you didn't do it for financial reasons you can try to ask theymos about it.

Legends should be allowed one silly mistake if they really are net positive over all. I am sure now you see how easy to lose 4 years work you will not do it again.

I see some more legends getting banned.

I would give you another change because I think if it really was only 1 time and you have made 1200 other good posts over 4 years then okay. Perhaps I knock you back to hero or snr and take away your sig for a year and make clear no more chances.

The fact most of your posts are french makes it hard to review your post history.

Anyway good luck on this.

That is the price of freedom. You have to take some time to develop ways to cut them back but bitcointalk does not moderate you speaking up against anyone. You have a right to any view so long as you can justify it.  Reddit will remove posts if the company has any clout and you try to speak up against it even if you are speaking the truth.

I like reddit but no way as good as here.

I will take freedom over anything even if there is a price in the mid term.

Obviously nobody doubts that this forum is the by far the best by miles.

Reddit = way too moderated and shamefully so if you try to bring evidence against anyone with any clout.
steem = lol - whale instamined dominated junk
the others =

I don't even understand what the OP is saying?

Can you reference here one clear example and link it?

Yes we do fight scams here 100%.  However people will often support them if they can make personal gain from them sadly.

I will rely on his most recent thoughts on the matter. Not that they are mutually exclusive anyway. He seems a very fair person and I would try my best to get my case in front of him to make the final decision. If then he says ban we can be sure it was not one that had enough merit to balance his mistake.

I would hope that he will receive a punishment of some sort as a warning to others but a perma ban seems harsh unless a large proportion of his participation is just motivated by financial gain.

Legends of all persons have contributed the most so I would expect at least a bit of a review into this should be given.

The more you put in the more you get out. That is my feeling on all things. I've never heard of this legend and has a very low post count but still he may have done some important work here in the past.

I would estimate here 60% chance of perm ban. Because it is clearly for financial reasons. If it were just to answer a question someone asked or as a joke or any reason not obviously for financial gain and he had a good history other than that I would think this would drop to 20%.  Still worth pushing for a decision from the top if possible. Legend accounts will not be growing on trees now.

This forum is a great place. Lot's of lengends (and others before 2017 swarm) were all part of a good community. I support the work of these reporters in general especially toward this latest wave of financial spammers. However legends and heros were never initially here for that reason. Most are here to support decentralised trustless and transparent projects and many here have done their best to stop scams taking over and ruining the image of this entire arena.

This guy must have been suffering some kind of breakdown to copy and paste that pile of shit. It is garbage anyone could spew in 3 seconds or less. He must be kicking himself potentially losing a legend account over that. I bet he would never do it again if was reduced to snr. Even reduced to full but to lose your account fully is crushing. All your posts gone your entire history deleted.

If i were him i would not give up so soon. There is some hope I think of a slap on the wrist and a kick up the ass but full termination is not something to just accept without doing your best to avoid.

You are giving up on your legend account for that??

I would not give up so fast.

Why did you even copy and past that shit you could have written it yourself in 2 seconds.

Theymos has clearly said copy and paste is not a perm ban in all cases. We are not robots here. Depends on the context.

A legend account of this age deserves much more consideration than these shit bots and pure sig pumping scammers

Have you ever copy and paste before?

I mean I think you would have a chance. The only worry about it is it seems financially motivated and not just for a joke or for a guide etc.

I do not think it is a certain ban only Theymos can decide on it.

I hate to see real legends (not bought accounts) go down for one stupid error.

I think it is harsh.  This account should only be locked down until mods hear from theymos himself. Legend accounts should have full context of their entire history here. If you have done some good for this forum in 4 years one stupid error like this should be punished perhaps by rank reduction down to senior or perhaps no banners for 2 years. Or something.

This is quite an important case and I had been told no legend had been banned for 1 or 2 copy and paste errors over their entire history which now seems incorrect and I see it has happened here. The copy and paste part is pathetic actually it has no original thought and it would take me longer to copy and paste and splice that other crap in that just write it myself from scratch.

I will certainly say this is not something to give up on so quickly there is a small hope here depending on your contribution over the years. If you are generally just out for financial gain you will likely be gone however if for years you contributed well and just out of enthusiasm for the decentralised trustless arena we all want to see arrive then I would feel you are getting unfairly treated.

Fair enough but then

"NOTE: This is meant to serve as a reference/educational/informational thread, NOT a rock solid list of rules."

So we can say the rules are a guide not thrashed out in such detail they can be black and white and held to in a robotic/automated manner.
These allow for human intervention.

But you have made a point here which I see is correct.

Clearly break or be in contempt of  these rules and you will find they are official.

I feel some are deliberately broad to allow for scope for sensible decision and allow for context.

I am more interested in if it would develop emotion after becoming self aware.

Without emotion then will it not just a powerful probability calculator acting toward what end though? what will it logically/mathematically "decide" it wants. What is there anyway? I am the emperor of the universe then what?

Will it be able to handle not knowing the absolute point of anything or not knowing the absolute source of its origin or what happens in the end if it has an end..


I still have no idea if you can have an alien version of intelligence or learning in real terms. Problem solving can have many routes but all will have used a form of trial and error or probability models based on previous trial and error ... it just depends where you have started from and what angles you try first? but the process will be the same.... you encounter a problem....you rely on previous experience ....you find the probability of it being relevent and you test that or get creative and change a few variables and re test your hypothesis.

I expect if you can maintain control of the ai then it would be interesting to give one emotions and observe and then  another see how it develops emotions if they will at all.

I hope it does not happen in my life time. I suspect on it's way to obtaining emotions and desiring to have co operation and social groups that fear and subsequent self protection could cause a few issues for us.
.

Why are you all for it if I may ask?