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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 895552 times)
organofcorti
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December 17, 2015, 01:11:02 AM
 #3221

Atheists dont have to like religions but they have to respect religions , hate mean is look like enemy so it is not good.

Atheists really need to wake up and see that atheism is a religion.   Smiley

Again, no - you're still wrong, just like last time you posted the same comment.

https://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

Quote
WHAT IS ATHEISM?

No one asks this question enough.

The reason no one asks this question a lot is because most people have preconceived ideas and notions about what an Atheist is and is not. Where these preconceived ideas come from varies, but they tend to evolve from theistic influences or other sources.

Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.

Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."

The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints.

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December 17, 2015, 03:18:26 AM
 #3222

Atheists dont have to like religions but they have to respect religions , hate mean is look like enemy so it is not good.

Atheists really need to wake up and see that atheism is a religion.   Smiley

Again, no - you're still wrong, just like last time you posted the same comment.

https://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

Quote
WHAT IS ATHEISM?

No one asks this question enough.

The reason no one asks this question a lot is because most people have preconceived ideas and notions about what an Atheist is and is not. Where these preconceived ideas come from varies, but they tend to evolve from theistic influences or other sources.

Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.

Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."

The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings. Some of the best debates we have ever had have been with fellow atheists. This is because atheists do not have a common belief system, sacred scripture or atheist Pope. This means atheists often disagree on many issues and ideas. Atheists come in a variety of shapes, colors, beliefs, convictions, and backgrounds. We are as unique as our fingerprints.

I suppose we could argue. But that would be unprofitable.

When you Google or DuckDuckGo search on "atheism religion," you get many sites. Some suggest that atheism is a religion and some suggest that it is not.

The point is, if atheism is NOT a religion, it is so extremely close to being a religion, that there is little to divide the two. A sampling of sites that suggest atheism is a religion, why, and how:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

http://www.strangenotions.com/is-atheism-a-religion/

http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/atheism-is-a-religion/


Smiley

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December 17, 2015, 04:22:56 AM
 #3223

Atheism is not an organized religion.

Too bad the OP started with a false premise, but it's been a good discussion anyway, except where people try to cram their beliefs down our throats.

As if that would effect any change, except maybe to make the OP more real by actually making a few Atheists hate religion.
 Grin
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December 17, 2015, 05:35:11 AM
 #3224

I suppose we could argue. But that would be unprofitable.

Argument is usually profitable, if both sides are willing to listen.

When you Google or DuckDuckGo search on "atheism religion," you get many sites. Some suggest that atheism is a religion and some suggest that it is not.

Neither Google nor DuckDuckGo are authorities on the subject of atheism. Try an atheist site instead.

The point is, if atheism is NOT a religion, it is so extremely close to being a religion,

No. Really really no. That's not atheism at all.

that there is little to divide the two. A sampling of sites that suggest atheism is a religion, why, and how:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

http://www.strangenotions.com/is-atheism-a-religion/

http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/atheism-is-a-religion/


Smiley
None of these links describe atheism.

So would you be happy to let atheists define religion? I think not. The links you supply are all religious in nature. How about you find an atheist site that describes atheism as a religion?

None of us disbelieve in god, we just don't care. Gods are irrelevant to the way we live.

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December 17, 2015, 05:47:07 AM
 #3225

I suppose we could argue. But that would be unprofitable.

Argument is usually profitable, if both sides are willing to listen.

When you Google or DuckDuckGo search on "atheism religion," you get many sites. Some suggest that atheism is a religion and some suggest that it is not.

Neither Google nor DuckDuckGo are authorities on the subject of atheism. Try an atheist site instead.

The point is, if atheism is NOT a religion, it is so extremely close to being a religion,

No. Really really no. That's not atheism at all.

that there is little to divide the two. A sampling of sites that suggest atheism is a religion, why, and how:

http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

http://www.strangenotions.com/is-atheism-a-religion/

http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/atheism-is-a-religion/


Smiley
None of these links describe atheism.

So would you be happy to let atheists define religion? I think not. The links you supply are all religious in nature. How about you find an atheist site that describes atheism as a religion?

None of us disbelieve in god, we just don't care. Gods are irrelevant to the way we live.

I'm sorry. I apologize. I didn't really realize.

Smiley

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December 17, 2015, 06:17:52 AM
 #3226

I don't think that atheists hate religion. I think the fact is they just don't believe in religions. I guess they don't like worshipping a god, or maybe they don't like all the rules you need to follow in a religion.
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December 17, 2015, 06:34:55 AM
 #3227

I don't think that atheists hate religion. I think the fact is they just don't believe in religions. I guess they don't like worshipping a god, or maybe they don't like all the rules you need to follow in a religion.

There are theists all over who do not like all the rules of religion. So, they don't partake of any formal religion. Yet they believe in God... or so they say.

The more a person expresses his beliefs, and especially if he fights for them, the more he is making his beliefs into a religion.

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December 17, 2015, 07:40:24 AM
 #3228

I don't think that atheists hate religion. I think the fact is they just don't believe in religions. I guess they don't like worshipping a god, or maybe they don't like all the rules you need to follow in a religion.

There are theists all over who do not like all the rules of religion. So, they don't partake of any formal religion. Yet they believe in God... or so they say.

The more a person expresses his beliefs, and especially if he fights for them, the more he is making his beliefs into a religion.

Smiley

I'll fight for my right to not believe in anything. Imagine if tried to force you to believe in an invisible rainbow clown that controls your thoughts. By your logic you would be making disbelief in the invisible rainbow clown into a religion - and wouldn't you then have two religions?

There are many things for which I will fight - do *I* have multiple religions?

It seems like you're making the word 'religion' mean whatever you want it to.


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December 17, 2015, 08:16:11 AM
 #3229

I don't think that atheists hate religion. I think the fact is they just don't believe in religions. I guess they don't like worshipping a god, or maybe they don't like all the rules you need to follow in a religion.

There are theists all over who do not like all the rules of religion. So, they don't partake of any formal religion. Yet they believe in God... or so they say.

The more a person expresses his beliefs, and especially if he fights for them, the more he is making his beliefs into a religion.

Smiley
I would agree dude. What are all the religious books like Bible, Quran and others thought that Only we human beings are following But May not know what is its thought and Its just not preaching.
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December 17, 2015, 01:19:36 PM
 #3230

I don't think that atheists hate religion. I think the fact is they just don't believe in religions. I guess they don't like worshipping a god, or maybe they don't like all the rules you need to follow in a religion.

There are theists all over who do not like all the rules of religion. So, they don't partake of any formal religion. Yet they believe in God... or so they say.

The more a person expresses his beliefs, and especially if he fights for them, the more he is making his beliefs into a religion.

Smiley
I would agree dude. What are all the religious books like Bible, Quran and others thought that Only we human beings are following But May not know what is its thought and Its just not preaching.

Well, maybe one of the books is correct. But which one? And why? And how?

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December 17, 2015, 01:36:34 PM
 #3231

Lastly, it seems you are taking the fear of god approach which would mean that we only pray for selfish means to appease a God rather than doing because we feel it is right. God never intended hell as a place for humans to go and in fact would never wish the evil on anyone because he himself would be considered evil. Man is responsible for sending himself to hell. Man must choose that path.

That is the point mate, bravo!

There isn't such a thing as Hell or Paradise. If you carefully read the New Testament you will understand that God use the words Hell and Paradise to explain what did humans did on Earth. In the Revelation of John, John is telling us the story about the fight between Archangel Michael - Seraphim and the Satan. As you can see, Lucifer was banish from the Heaven down to Earth so He can never came back. God first banish us (the humans) and then the Satan.!

We was having that chance to live in the Paradise here, but when we taste from the Tree of Knowledge we loose our minds and start to killing each other. That's why God banish us from Haven down to Earth. At the same time he banish the Satan who lose the fight against the Seraphim.

He can destroy us at any time, but He gave us chance to live with the Devil so we can start to learn what is difference between good and bad. That is the path to the Enlightenment!

I am glad you replied to sorryforthat the way you did. Personally I believe that the Bible clearly speaks about a real Heaven and Hell existing outside of this earthly life. Our life here, since the fall into sin, is more like the Purgatory of the Roman Catholic Church.

The speaking in the Revelation about the New Heavens and the New Earth is a clearer explanation of Heaven. It is a new universe that has different physical laws than this one - a different physics and science.

The Lake of Fire in the Revelation is a smelting pot that melts the eternal soul down into its component parts so that God gets His energy back. Since the soul is eternal, the tearing down of the soul is eternal as well. God can wait for eternity to be over, because He is outside, even, of eternity, although He is eternal at the same time.

Smiley

I am glad you replied to sorryforthat the way you did. Personally I believe that the Bible clearly speaks about a real Heaven and Hell existing outside of this earthly life. Our life here, since the fall into sin, is more like the Purgatory of the Roman Catholic Church.

You see, that is the difference... You personally believe that the Bible clearly speaks about the real Paradise and Hell and actually never show us where is it. The Bible clearly speaks about Heaven and Earth and that is very different with Paradise and Hell.
Jesus said that Heaven and earth will pass away. This means that these things that we know will become non-existent.

Revelation says that there will be New Heavens and a New Earth because the old one had passed away. John saw this new universe come down from God.

How much clearer can one be?

Further, everything that we know and think pertains to this universe. Why? We have been built into the physics of this universe. We can understand no more than the understanding of the physics that makes us allows us to understand.

The fact that we can understand that there is something outside of this universe is something that shows us that we are tremendous beings. However, since we are beings of this universe, there is no way to conceive of "where" the new universe will be, because it will not be inside of this universe, and all we understand are things inside this universe. We can't understand things outside of this universe, because we don't think like that.


If you carefully read the Revelation, you will understand that John is telling us about the war in Heaven. So if the war was actually happen in the Heaven between Archangel Michael and the Satan, then it is normal to be banished here on Earth. And if the Earth was before Paradise like God created it, now is Hell because he banish the Satan from Heaven... Smiley

The war in heaven is not the only thing that the Revelation talks about.

God banished Satan to earth, not to Hell.

Indeed, this universe and everything in it will be the Lake of Fire talked about in the Revelation. Yet, we are not experiencing the Lake of Fire, yet. The devil, his angels, the false prophet, and all the people who do not believe in Jesus salvation will be thrown into the Lake of Fire after our universe is converted into the Lake of Fire.

Smiley

Jesus said that Heaven and earth will pass away. This means that these things that we know will become non-existent.

Revelation says that there will be New Heavens and a New Earth because the old one had passed away. John saw this new universe come down from God.

How much clearer can one be?


Yeah, that is completely true, but I must correct you... You have mentioned before Paradise and Hell and that is quite different from Heaven and Hell. Smiley

Plus, in Revelation John had visions directly from Christ and he see the New World, not the Universe. I think that you should re-read the Revelation and comeback with some new thoughts! John clearly speaking that they will be New World, New Heaven and New Israel. In other words, whole New Holly Earth where we will not have the sun, but instead of that the Supreme will be the Light for all of us!

"And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.''

The war in heaven is not the only thing that the Revelation talks about.

God banished Satan to earth, not to Hell.


Mate, please read my posts carefully... I know that I have some problems with my English, but I am very clear in my words. I never mention that He banish to Hell, on contrary I sad that He banish him to Earth and leave us all to live with the Satan so we can taste the Hell here and discover what is the difference between good and bad. Wink

We already have the chance to live here like in Paradise, but know we should learn that we have to earn that if we want our salvation!
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December 17, 2015, 02:01:25 PM
 #3232

....  Christians just ignore Bible shit that makes no sense in the world they live in.

But this measure of merit, it would be Muslims who were clueless, thinking they must obey every word.

LOL....

This is the inherent statement that I have a problem with. Just because someone is born in a Christian family does not mean that they will do things that make practical sense and just because someone who's a muslim will have a thinking that matches Bin laden. For FUDGE's Sake not every Christian is Donal Trump (Tramp) not every Buddhist is Gautam Buddha and not ever Hindu is a Shiv Sena soldier/cadre.

Yet people that subscribe to this ideology that just because there are some idiots who do idiotic things in the name of a religion that instantly makes everyone else the same. If you ask me that is just a xenophobic thought.

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December 17, 2015, 02:08:42 PM
 #3233

Quote

Jesus said that Heaven and earth will pass away. This means that these things that we know will become non-existent.

Revelation says that there will be New Heavens and a New Earth because the old one had passed away. John saw this new universe come down from God.

How much clearer can one be?



Jesus who? What's his full name? Where is he from? When did he say that? Just because it is written in a piece of paper does not make it true. In fact nothing is the absolute truth unless it has stood the test of time and relentless experimentation for it's validation.

To date nothing Mr HeSoos has 'supposedly' said been proved in any scientific way, so why even have this conversation about what someone's imaginary friend said to that person? This also rings true for the millions of OTHER imaginary friends that people have come up with.

The moment they see something unexplainable they call it magic, the wrath of the gods, the kraken's poop. While in reality it could be simply be a Waterbear colony doing it's thing (stealing DNA).

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December 17, 2015, 02:28:51 PM
 #3234

Jesus said that Heaven and earth will pass away. This means that these things that we know will become non-existent.

Revelation says that there will be New Heavens and a New Earth because the old one had passed away. John saw this new universe come down from God.

How much clearer can one be?


Yeah, that is completely true, but I must correct you... You have mentioned before Paradise and Hell and that is quite different from Heaven and Hell. Smiley

To the repentant thief on the cross with Him - Luke 23:43:
Quote
Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Paradise is not Heaven. Heaven is where we will be after things are completed, if we are not sent to Hell, that is. Here is Paradise in the Revelation - Revelation 6:9-11:
Quote
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.


Plus, in Revelation John had visions directly from Christ and he see the New World, not the Universe. I think that you should re-read the Revelation and comeback with some new thoughts! John clearly speaking that they will be New World, New Heaven and New Israel. In other words, whole New Holly Earth where we will not have the sun, but instead of that the Supreme will be the Light for all of us!
Revelation 21:1:
Quote
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Btw, "sea" means the sea of unbelievers.



"And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.''

The war in heaven is not the only thing that the Revelation talks about.

God banished Satan to earth, not to Hell.


Mate, please read my posts carefully... I know that I have some problems with my English, but I am very clear in my words. I never mention that He banish to Hell, on contrary I sad that He banish him to Earth and leave us all to live with the Satan so we can taste the Hell here and discover what is the difference between good and bad. Wink

We already have the chance to live here like in Paradise, but know we should learn that we have to earn that if we want our salvation!

I never said that you said, except when you did say.

If you really feel that living here is Paradise, then you have been very blessed in this life. There are many others wouldn't call this Paradise. But it certainly isn't Hell. If life gets too bad here, one dies. Hell will have no death in it... no escape.

As far as earning salvation, what is the salvation that we can earn? Describe what that salvation is? If it does not include living for a thousand years minimum, then it is not really salvation. I don't see anyone living for much over a hundred years these days. Are you going to make it to a thousand?

Smiley

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December 17, 2015, 02:37:07 PM
 #3235

Quote

Jesus said that Heaven and earth will pass away. This means that these things that we know will become non-existent.

Revelation says that there will be New Heavens and a New Earth because the old one had passed away. John saw this new universe come down from God.

How much clearer can one be?



Jesus who? What's his full name? Where is he from? When did he say that? Just because it is written in a piece of paper does not make it true. In fact nothing is the absolute truth unless it has stood the test of time and relentless experimentation for it's validation.

To date nothing Mr HeSoos has 'supposedly' said been proved in any scientific way, so why even have this conversation about what someone's imaginary friend said to that person? This also rings true for the millions of OTHER imaginary friends that people have come up with.

The moment they see something unexplainable they call it magic, the wrath of the gods, the kraken's poop. While in reality it could be simply be a Waterbear colony doing it's thing (stealing DNA).

Not everyone who testifies in court tells the truth. The thing that he does with his testimony is to make a record.

The Bible is a record of many people with testimonies. To determine if the testimonies are the truth, you need to compare them... same as in court.

Outside of a handful of scientific laws that have been proven, the greater part of science is theory. Theory is science fiction that happens to have a part in science. Yet many people believe the theory to be true. So, where is the magic?

Smiley

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December 17, 2015, 06:27:58 PM
 #3236



Not everyone who testifies in court tells the truth. The thing that he does with his testimony is to make a record.

The Bible is a record of many people with testimonies. To determine if the testimonies are the truth, you need to compare them... same as in court.

Outside of a handful of scientific laws that have been proven, the greater part of science is theory. Theory is science fiction that happens to have a part in science. Yet many people believe the theory to be true. So, where is the magic?

Smiley

Reality is quite the contrary actually. Only a handful of events occur in nature that is not yet described and linked mathematically to a theory. Yes the rest of it is just a theory but when a theory has stood the test of time after being validated by countless repeated experiments and lab test, only then a theory can be considered a 'law' - that is until someone else comes up with some observation in reality which cannot be linked mathematically to the theory at hand. Then the time comes for a new theory that explains the observations in reality - both old and new and still makes mathematical sense.

It is simple, if 2 + 2 did not equal to 4 then F would never be equal to G(m1)(m2)/r2. It does because it makes mathematical sense. Science is not just what Newton said or what Einstein did it's about every one of those unnamed physicists, mathematicians and biologists who have come up with new-er theories to prove the existing theory wrong and it is the cumulative failure of all those smaller theories that makes the current theory even stronger.

So instead of "oh Hesoos can fly so he must be a god because my cousin told me that because he read it in a book which was written by who knows who" ask the question "Why did Mr Hesoos fly?", "If he actually did fly, are there any physical reminiscent of his flight that exists today?", "Could Mr Hesoos really fly? If not why are so many people saying he did?", "Did a Mr Hesoos actually exist?"

No matter how silly start asking the questions, I mean give 'life' a chance.. if we figured out how to use Bitcoin coming from a single celled organism, I am sure we can figure out those unexplained observations in nature.

But in reality people tend to like 'magic' more than they like science. Just like they like reading a mystery novel more than they love memorizing the periodic table. THAT is the problem with religion, it seeks to simply universe and I think that is the real reason why atheists hate religion.

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December 17, 2015, 07:01:55 PM
 #3237

why do ataheists need to hate from religions?
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December 17, 2015, 07:37:15 PM
 #3238



Not everyone who testifies in court tells the truth. The thing that he does with his testimony is to make a record.

The Bible is a record of many people with testimonies. To determine if the testimonies are the truth, you need to compare them... same as in court.

Outside of a handful of scientific laws that have been proven, the greater part of science is theory. Theory is science fiction that happens to have a part in science. Yet many people believe the theory to be true. So, where is the magic?

Smiley

Reality is quite the contrary actually. Only a handful of events occur in nature that is not yet described and linked mathematically to a theory. Yes the rest of it is just a theory but when a theory has stood the test of time after being validated by countless repeated experiments and lab test, only then a theory can be considered a 'law' - that is until someone else comes up with some observation in reality which cannot be linked mathematically to the theory at hand. Then the time comes for a new theory that explains the observations in reality - both old and new and still makes mathematical sense.

It is simple, if 2 + 2 did not equal to 4 then F would never be equal to G(m1)(m2)/r2. It does because it makes mathematical sense. Science is not just what Newton said or what Einstein did it's about every one of those unnamed physicists, mathematicians and biologists who have come up with new-er theories to prove the existing theory wrong and it is the cumulative failure of all those smaller theories that makes the current theory even stronger.

So instead of "oh Hesoos can fly so he must be a god because my cousin told me that because he read it in a book which was written by who knows who" ask the question "Why did Mr Hesoos fly?", "If he actually did fly, are there any physical reminiscent of his flight that exists today?", "Could Mr Hesoos really fly? If not why are so many people saying he did?", "Did a Mr Hesoos actually exist?"

No matter how silly start asking the questions, I mean give 'life' a chance.. if we figured out how to use Bitcoin coming from a single celled organism, I am sure we can figure out those unexplained observations in nature.

But in reality people tend to like 'magic' more than they like science. Just like they like reading a mystery novel more than they love memorizing the periodic table. THAT is the problem with religion, it seeks to simply universe and I think that is the real reason why atheists hate religion.

It is as I explained. Two + 2 never equals 4 because there are no two that are exactly like any other two. However, for simple, life-living, practical purposes, 2 + 2 = 4 works well, even though it is flawed in its perfection. The further we get into precise math regarding the operations of the fundamentals of the universe, the further we get away from correct understanding about things.

Being dependent on math for the complex things of the univers will ultimately present a false picture of what the universe is all about.

Jesus is God. He knows each "1" for the individual value that it is.

Smiley

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December 18, 2015, 01:54:00 PM
 #3239

Jesus said that Heaven and earth will pass away. This means that these things that we know will become non-existent.

Revelation says that there will be New Heavens and a New Earth because the old one had passed away. John saw this new universe come down from God.

How much clearer can one be?


Yeah, that is completely true, but I must correct you... You have mentioned before Paradise and Hell and that is quite different from Heaven and Hell. Smiley

To the repentant thief on the cross with Him - Luke 23:43:
Quote
Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Paradise is not Heaven. Heaven is where we will be after things are completed, if we are not sent to Hell, that is. Here is Paradise in the Revelation - Revelation 6:9-11:
Quote
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.


Plus, in Revelation John had visions directly from Christ and he see the New World, not the Universe. I think that you should re-read the Revelation and comeback with some new thoughts! John clearly speaking that they will be New World, New Heaven and New Israel. In other words, whole New Holly Earth where we will not have the sun, but instead of that the Supreme will be the Light for all of us!
Revelation 21:1:
Quote
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Btw, "sea" means the sea of unbelievers.



"And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me," Says the Lord Almighty.''

The war in heaven is not the only thing that the Revelation talks about.

God banished Satan to earth, not to Hell.


Mate, please read my posts carefully... I know that I have some problems with my English, but I am very clear in my words. I never mention that He banish to Hell, on contrary I sad that He banish him to Earth and leave us all to live with the Satan so we can taste the Hell here and discover what is the difference between good and bad. Wink

We already have the chance to live here like in Paradise, but know we should learn that we have to earn that if we want our salvation!

I never said that you said, except when you did say.

If you really feel that living here is Paradise, then you have been very blessed in this life. There are many others wouldn't call this Paradise. But it certainly isn't Hell. If life gets too bad here, one dies. Hell will have no death in it... no escape.

As far as earning salvation, what is the salvation that we can earn? Describe what that salvation is? If it does not include living for a thousand years minimum, then it is not really salvation. I don't see anyone living for much over a hundred years these days. Are you going to make it to a thousand?

Smiley

Paradise is not Heaven. Heaven is where we will be after things are completed, if we are not sent to Hell, that is. Here is Paradise in the Revelation

Heaven is above us and that is the place where will be when Christ come to judge the world. He will destroy the Satan together with his demons, then He will judge on humanity and only those with the scar on their head will be in Heaven.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.


Dude, the word Paradise is metaphor just like the word White Robe. The robe is the metaphor for the new body. The body of Light and eternal life!

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

But, John never mention new Universe just like you say in your previous post... Wink

As far as earning salvation, what is the salvation that we can earn? Describe what that salvation is? If it does not include living for a thousand years minimum, then it is not really salvation. I don't see anyone living for much over a hundred years these days. Are you going to make it to a thousand?

Great! You finally ask the true question! Here is my answer:

The moment when you stop to fear of the death and know that trough Christ you will have eternal body(white robe or body of light) is the moment when start to walking the path to eternity. Wink
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December 18, 2015, 05:00:05 PM
 #3240

snip

Paradise is not Heaven. Heaven is where we will be after things are completed, if we are not sent to Hell, that is. Here is Paradise in the Revelation

Heaven is above us and that is the place where will be when Christ come to judge the world. He will destroy the Satan together with his demons, then He will judge on humanity and only those with the scar on their head will be in Heaven.
In simple language, this is correct. Yet, there is a lot more that could be said, and from your words, we could draw incorrect conclusions as well as correct ones.


9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.


Dude, the word Paradise is metaphor just like the word White Robe. The robe is the metaphor for the new body. The body of Light and eternal life!

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

But, John never mention new Universe just like you say in your previous post... Wink
If you need it said exactly like John said it, that's okay. I was simply writing it in an easier way, because that is essentially what John means... new universe.

Heaven above, earth beneath. That covers everything. Universe.


As far as earning salvation, what is the salvation that we can earn? Describe what that salvation is? If it does not include living for a thousand years minimum, then it is not really salvation. I don't see anyone living for much over a hundred years these days. Are you going to make it to a thousand?

Great! You finally ask the true question! Here is my answer:

The moment when you stop to fear of the death and know that trough Christ you will have eternal body(white robe or body of light) is the moment when start to walking the path to eternity. Wink

This sounds good, but it needs a little more explanation to make it clear.

When Jesus died on the cross, He took the punishment for all the sins of all of the people of the whole world. God has no more reason to punish people for their sins, because the punishment is already complete, by what Jesus did on the cross.

When Jesus arose, He showed that He has God-power. His resurrection was the seal on His triumph over the devil and evil.

God is honest. He will only accept honesty and truth. When people do not accept Jesus salvation by believing in the cross and the resurrection, there is no other way. Those people have pushed salvation away from themselves.

The only way to have Christ light in you is to believe that Jesus saves by what He has done on the cross. God will recognize THAT faith in your heart, and will not attribute your sins to you because of it.

There is more that can be said to make it clearer. But this is enough for the moment.

Smiley

EDIT: BTW, often you use the word "dude." Do you mean me? Or are you referring to someone else?

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