Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[polrpaul]

so in essence the butterfly labs machines will be obselete by the end of this year when they actually ship?    Or is there going to be a time where no one will be building machines till the end of the year and everyone will be in the same boat?

it all depends on the competition landscape.. and there appears to be no real contenders.. which works to BFL's advantage, of course.

[1714131003]

1714131003

[1714131003]

1714131003

[creativex]

so in essence the butterfly labs machines will be obselete by the end of this year when they actually ship?    Or is there going to be a time where no one will be building machines till the end of the year and everyone will be in the same boat?

it all depends on the competition landscape.. and there appears to be no real contenders.. which works to BFL's advantage, of course.

Surely you jest.

ASICMiner has nearly 21TH online RIGHT NOW and has ALSO shipped 3x as much hardware(in GH terms) as BFL(a dedicated hardware producer). Avalon has shipped over 100x the hashing power BFL has despite beginning development of their product months later.

BFL is the drunk + stoned + handicapped turtle in this race and they're getting their clocks cleaned royal like. Get a refund or suffer the consequences.

[fernandezdec]

I also have mixed emotions on the whole BFL thing. I have two orders which I will not be cancelling because I feel that if I already waited this long, I can wait a little longer. However, we get no updates. We find out about what is going on with their products through third parties, other forums, and never through BFL. Their have very poor communication with their customers and that's aggravating the situation. I've heard of many people asking for a refund because they just keep pushing the shipping date farther and farther. WE NEED ANSWERS!

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[jordaninthesky]

I openly speculated about the integrity of the process...  (I ordered $2666 in July-August 2012).  They forced a refund upon me and booted me out of my 3xxx and 4,xxx orders of 60 gh/s respectfully just a few days ago.  

Josh said I could vote with my money, but it looks like he did the voting for me. I'm sad and I feel cheated.  They won't talk to me.  =(

Did you validate your order and accept the new terms as instructed? You probably failed to do so and got cancelled for non-compliance.

I validated my order by going to the website and accepting the terms for both.  They cancelled me anyway.  I called them up and they told me it was because I expressed dissatisfaction with "the product" on their forum and that they no longer wish to have a relationship with me.

Seriously.  Yuck.  Josh IS a terrible product.

[darkmule]

Seriously.  Yuck.  Josh IS a terrible product.

What a shitty scam company.  I'd suggest to anyone that if you want to post your experiences with this scam operation here, you do it under another name.  You might want to be able to sue these scumbags at some date in the future, such as either after they ship or when they default and run off with their stolen money. 

In either event, their illegal misconduct has probably cost you money you could sue over.  But they probably cover their ass a little bit with their new "involuntary refund" policy.  So if for whatever reason (such as having waited almost a year already) you don't just want to refund now while they're still offering refunds, you shouldn't let them know of your dissatisfaction in advance.

Wait until you get your product.  THEN sue them.  Or whatever other means of revenge you can figure out.  It's possible, of course, that if you get the device early enough and it works well enough, their customers will be somewhat mollified, since so far as I can tell, the people with pre-orders want nothing unreasonable.  They just want what they paid for a long time ago.

Josh responds by pissing in their face.

What a complete piece of shit scumbag.

[pistolslapper]

Yea, Josh needs to get some people skills.

[vhate]

Well i ordered a 5 ghash one in april, we'll see when it arrives...

[BladeIV]

Damn that is so sad and dissappointing I was saving up just to get one of those beast sounding rigs
Thanks for saving me though I am converted.

[Riukuzaki]

"The defendant shall not engage, as whole or partial owner, employee or otherwise, in any business involving loan programs, gambling or gaming activities, telemarketing activities, investment programs or any other business involving the solicitation of funds or cold-calls to customers without the express approval of the Probation Officer prior to engagement in such employment."

I emboldened the important part.  Butterflylabs is not any of those.  You might say, "Well, it's an investment program!"  You'd be wrong.  An investment program is more like, "Give us money and we'll give you more money back after some amount of time."  Butterflylabs is providing a product that you're paying for.

As for the "omg it's fake, Butterflylabs doesn't actually have the units they say they do," again you'd be wrong.  They have already shipped to roughly a dozen paying customers.  These are customers with no affiliation to Butterflylabs.  Plus, we know what the boards look like due to the videos and screenshots we've seen.

In summary, I suppose you'll have to wait and see.  However, I'll be enjoying my Jalapenos in a few months time.

[hortonelectric]

I ordered mine...I don't know about any validation but I haven't heard from them in a month. The entire thing was easy to write off to begin with.. I gambled my $300 from the start.

[AzureEngineer]

Anyone thinking about purchasing an ASIC would be better off buying one from a company that isn't quite as incompetent as BFL.

[creativex]

They have already shipped to roughly a dozen paying customers.

Already? You mean the people that ordered in June of 2012? Those things were supposed to be delivered in October of last year...and again they were supposed to consume 1w/Gh, but they instead consume over 5x that amount of power, which means they'll not remain profitable nearly as long.

[massnerder]

They have already shipped to roughly a dozen paying customers.

12 down, how many tens of thousands left to go??  lol

[BigZee]

They haven't been able to live up to any of their promises.. I feel bad for all those who ordered..

[Exoskeleton]

They haven't been able to live up to any of their promises.. I feel bad for all those who ordered..

I know people who spent what would have been $100,000 worth bitcoins today buying from BFL in Aug last year, and I used to feel so bad for them and everyone else. How could they have known right? Untill these last 2 weeks. After trying to get them to get a refund for the 2nd time this month I stopped caring. They feel locked in, and I don't blame them, but I personally would have taken pennies on the dollar back today then nothing at all.

I take a George Carlin attitude towards it now in May 2013. I think he would say something like "F#ck em'!". I mean at this point I can't afford to be emotionally invested in their loss anymore. Im getting dead to this issue as the weeks go by and they have delivered a whole... 10 jallapenos! 10 real life units! Wow! This is full scale for real guys! By the end of April just like they said.

Seriously, if you can't see the scam a year later I just don't care to try anymore. The vets here with long historys all agree. If you sunk money into this and didn't get a refund by May 1 2013, you deserve what you get. Their 2nd half of April 2013 promise to ship in full was the last straw.

"So you don't want to take the money and want to go for whats behind door number 2 instead..."
"And behind door number 2... Nothing kid. Now kick rocks."

Its a cold world and its time for some people to get a masters degree in the School of Hard Knox. Its an expensive course but you'll never forget what you learn in this class.

[firefop]

Damn that is so sad and dissappointing I was saving up just to get one of those beast sounding rigs
Thanks for saving me though I am converted.

Too bad - in a year from now you'll be deeply regretting that decision.

[psystyle]

let's just wait and see

[MooC Tals]

let's just wait and see

Yup lets wait some more, I was waiting since Oct 11 in the year 2012.

[oroboras]

They will arrive. Remember Butterfly Labs is trying to create an affordable ASIC miner.

Unlike the Avalon machines, which are also very limited editions, and cost 75BTC or $8500 (at todays price) for a 65GH/s machine (or $129 per GH/s), the 5GH/s BFL Jalapeno unit costs only $54 per GH/s, and the 60GH/s machine is only $2500, making it more than 3 times cheaper than the Avalon.

Yes I know the Avalon is being shipped right now (though all orders are filled, so they are also now, technically not available for purchase), but I'd rather wait for a machine that WILL arrive, while being affordable, than waiting for Avalon's 4th order, which will no doubt be much more expensive again.

[MooC Tals]

I'm going to put this so simple that if you don't get it, well then

Bfl has Lied to customers to scrape in pre-order money to pay for research and development.

1)They led on customers early on that a product was almost ready to ship.They knew that as soon as the customer waits a 3 month period that will tire and ask for their money back. So bfl gives their money back and creates another very optimistic update to bring in new pre-orders.

2)They priced the units extremely low to help with #1 and kill any competition. After all Avalon is China plenty of Cheep workers. Smart people too. Bad combo for bfl. Then when they finally got one working the prices shoot up. Why? well they need what really costs to build them now to actually build them.

3)They understand that a full out release of all units will kill their future business. So steady as they go as they have always done. Besides their customers have been lied to so many times and their is no competition so fuck them behind the scenes but all nice P/R in front.

Honest companies don't act like this.  There is more but I refuse to WOT