[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[MyBTT]

Any idea of when the Trezor 2 will come out? I'm super-intrested in it. I can't afford to go to Prague to test it, either. But i'm guessing early 2017?

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Any idea of when the Trezor 2 will come out? I'm super-intrested in it. I can't afford to go to Prague to test it, either. But i'm guessing early 2017?

stickac said on reddit that 2.0 will not be released sooner than the end of this year.

[coins101]

BTW, the new CORE wallet will work with TREZOR:



And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Among other things I will add 2 pretty big features that will smooth the way for both decentralized blockexplorer and decentralized exchange.

I will explain soon. (or can you guess what they are?)

Now I have a good reason to go and get me one of those.

Someone tell the Trezor guys to sell and ship a Spreadcoin version

What's the process to get SPR supported for those that don't want to hack around?

[PremiumCodeX]

I read about TREZOR before, and although I found it awesome according to its features and customer feedbacks, it was a bit too pricy for me.

Is giving some kind of discount in your intention or could it be in the close future?

PS: However, the picture in your thread seems to be invalid. You may want to review that.

[Decoded]

Any idea when the Trezor 2 will be out? I'm interested to see what it looks like. Can you finally input vanity addresses (or is this a security hazard, as the Trezor is HD)?

Thinking of upgrading to a Trezor from my Ledger. Should I wait for the 2.0 or get the original? (I read somewhere that it costs $19 for the trezor, but $100 for research and development. When the 2.0 comes out, will this $100 fee go away, making it cheaper than a Nano? *hopefull*)

[ColderThanIce]

Any idea when the Trezor 2 will be out? I'm interested to see what it looks like.

The Trezor 2 release date was discussed just a few posts above:

Any idea of when the Trezor 2 will come out? I'm super-intrested in it. I can't afford to go to Prague to test it, either. But i'm guessing early 2017?

stickac said on reddit that 2.0 will not be released sooner than the end of this year.

I also wouldn't hold my breath on the Trezor 2 being cheaper than the original Trezor either, or at least not much cheaper than the original Trezor. People are buying Trezors at the $120 pricepoint so I don't see why they would lower it. For lots of people, a $120 hardware wallet is cheap enough insurance to prevent their coins from being stolen.

[bitcapitalist]

$120 is a great price. I bought it some time ago for a lower price but anyways I think this is the best investment I made when it comes to Bitcoin wallet security. You are securing your coins for just $120 if Trezor were available some years ago it would've prevented tons of issues with people losing their coins

[vapourminer]

yeah 120 is fine.

im paying for the ongoing support, convenience, security and size. that takes a r&d budget that gets built in to the final price.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

[bitcapitalist]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

Yes, it's good. But I prefer Trezor security to be honest. I don't see much problem on paying $40 or $50 more for a device that has more reputation over the bitcoin space.

[dsattler]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

Yes, it's good. But I prefer Trezor security to be honest. I don't see much problem on paying $40 or $50 more for a device that has more reputation over the bitcoin space.

I second this. Often you must pay more if you want a better and well-tested product and that's exactly the case with trezor. Hackers tempted that thing and quite early after launch an attack was found but could quickly be closed by a firmware update. No attack vectors left for the moment but no guarantee for the future. This is the top-security device for bitcoin at the time being and other products have yet to prove itself to reach this level.

[vapourminer]

i third this opinion. i stayed away from hardware wallets for a long time just watching, with paper wallets as my goto storage.

then got the trezor.

i will get another one. other hw wallets may be available but the trezor is tried and proven. i feel safe entrusting my coins with it.

btw still have paper wallets for long term cold storage. but thats just stubberness heh

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

Yes, it's good. But I prefer Trezor security to be honest. I don't see much problem on paying $40 or $50 more for a device that has more reputation over the bitcoin space.

If you hold Ether or Ether Classic as well as Bitcoin the Nano S is your only choice for a hardware wallet for all three coins. Nano S has a significant security improvement over Trezor if you need to recover the device to a new one: unlike Trezor, the seed for Nano S is only ever displayed on the device itself, not the host computer. The seed is never leaked at all. I have been using Trezors for years but have to admit the Nano S is next generation. It will be interesting to see what Trezor 2.0 can do.

[dsattler]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

Yes, it's good. But I prefer Trezor security to be honest. I don't see much problem on paying $40 or $50 more for a device that has more reputation over the bitcoin space.

If you hold Ether or Ether Classic as well as Bitcoin the Nano S is your only choice for a hardware wallet for all three coins. Nano S has a significant security improvement over Trezor if you need to recover the device to a new one: unlike Trezor, the seed for Nano S is only ever displayed on the device itself, not the host computer. The seed is never leaked at all. I have been using Trezors for years but have to admit the Nano S is next generation. It will be interesting to see what Trezor 2.0 can do.

This argument is a moot point. From trezor's faq section:

What if I run the TREZOR recovery process on an infected computer?

During the TREZOR recovery process you are asked to enter your recovery seed into the computer with the words in a random order. By default, the TREZOR uses a 24 word recovery seed.

If your computer has a keylogger installed on it, then the randomly ordered words may be stolen. One might try to re-arrange these words, until they found the correct word ordering. They can check the order of the words, by generating a bitcoin address using each ordering and checking if the address belongs to you.

There are 24! possible orderings of a 24 word seed. That is 620448401733239439360000 possible orderings.

Each 24 word TREZOR recovery seed is verified with an 8 bit checksum . Using the checksum to eliminate invalid seeds, you can reduce the search space by a factor of 256. This gives us a search space of:

24! ÷ 256 = 2423626569270466560000

Going from TREZOR recovery seed to public bitcoin address takes 2 × 2048 iterations of PBKDF2, which in turn uses SHA-512. All in all, going from a potential TREZOR recovery seed to a bitcoin address, is slightly more difficult than running SHA-512 8096 times.

To summarise, in order to check all possible orderings in a 24 word seed, you need to run SHA-512:

24! ÷ 256 × 8096 = 19621680704813697269760000 times

The bitcoin network is capable of preforming 176 537 883 000 000 000 iterations of SHA-256 each second.

If we wave our hands a bit, we can claim that SHA-512 and SHA-256 are the same difficulty (which they aren’t but let’s pretend they are). Therefore, it should take somewhere around half of:

(24! ÷ 256 × 8096) ÷ 176 537 883 000 000 000 ÷ 60 ÷ 60 ÷ 24 ÷ 365 = 3.5 years

for the ENTIRE BITCOIN NETWORK to crack the seed. If you have that kind of hashing power, you’d make better money mining at Slush Pool than trying to steal bitcoins. :-) On a normal botnet cracking a TREZOR seed would take millenia.

[bitcapitalist]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

Yes, it's good. But I prefer Trezor security to be honest. I don't see much problem on paying $40 or $50 more for a device that has more reputation over the bitcoin space.

If you hold Ether or Ether Classic as well as Bitcoin the Nano S is your only choice for a hardware wallet for all three coins. Nano S has a significant security improvement over Trezor if you need to recover the device to a new one: unlike Trezor, the seed for Nano S is only ever displayed on the device itself, not the host computer. The seed is never leaked at all. I have been using Trezors for years but have to admit the Nano S is next generation. It will be interesting to see what Trezor 2.0 can do.

I wanted to get the Nano S but I'll wait to see what trezor brings in version 2.0 before deciding.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

Price of Trezor was increased temporarily due to short stock it seems but price is back down to $99 at https://www.buytrezor.com/ add $10 for standard shipping. With the new Ledger Nano S selling for 61.62€ (69$) with ground shipping included I doubt Trezor could ever justify charging more than $99 again, the competition is too good now. Anyone looking at both hardware wallets will see they can save about $40 and have hardware storage for both Ether and Bitcoin with the Nano S. Competition is good for the consumer.

Yes, it's good. But I prefer Trezor security to be honest. I don't see much problem on paying $40 or $50 more for a device that has more reputation over the bitcoin space.

If you hold Ether or Ether Classic as well as Bitcoin the Nano S is your only choice for a hardware wallet for all three coins. Nano S has a significant security improvement over Trezor if you need to recover the device to a new one: unlike Trezor, the seed for Nano S is only ever displayed on the device itself, not the host computer. The seed is never leaked at all. I have been using Trezors for years but have to admit the Nano S is next generation. It will be interesting to see what Trezor 2.0 can do.

This argument is a moot point. From trezor's faq section:

What if I run the TREZOR recovery process on an infected computer?

During the TREZOR recovery process you are asked to enter your recovery seed into the computer with the words in a random order. By default, the TREZOR uses a 24 word recovery seed.

If your computer has a keylogger installed on it, then the randomly ordered words may be stolen. One might try to re-arrange these words, until they found the correct word ordering. They can check the order of the words, by generating a bitcoin address using each ordering and checking if the address belongs to you.

There are 24! possible orderings of a 24 word seed. That is 620448401733239439360000 possible orderings.

Each 24 word TREZOR recovery seed is verified with an 8 bit checksum . Using the checksum to eliminate invalid seeds, you can reduce the search space by a factor of 256. This gives us a search space of:

24! ÷ 256 = 2423626569270466560000

Going from TREZOR recovery seed to public bitcoin address takes 2 × 2048 iterations of PBKDF2, which in turn uses SHA-512. All in all, going from a potential TREZOR recovery seed to a bitcoin address, is slightly more difficult than running SHA-512 8096 times.

To summarise, in order to check all possible orderings in a 24 word seed, you need to run SHA-512:

24! ÷ 256 × 8096 = 19621680704813697269760000 times

The bitcoin network is capable of preforming 176 537 883 000 000 000 iterations of SHA-256 each second.

If we wave our hands a bit, we can claim that SHA-512 and SHA-256 are the same difficulty (which they aren’t but let’s pretend they are). Therefore, it should take somewhere around half of:

(24! ÷ 256 × 8096) ÷ 176 537 883 000 000 000 ÷ 60 ÷ 60 ÷ 24 ÷ 365 = 3.5 years

for the ENTIRE BITCOIN NETWORK to crack the seed. If you have that kind of hashing power, you’d make better money mining at Slush Pool than trying to steal bitcoins. :-) On a normal botnet cracking a TREZOR seed would take millenia.

What is not easy to do today may be trivial in a few years. KeepKey made a fuss about how their rotating cipher leaked less info than Trezor on recovery. Well, Ledger just upped the ante with the Nano S which leaks nothing on recovery.

[jiijj1]

If I own 2 Trezor devices, would it be possible to connect the new Trezor device to offline PC, type in the 24 word seed & this way have 2 Trezor devices that have exactly same wallets stored in them?

I'm confident that my PC does not have keylogger, however for extra safety it would be cool to be able to move the seed to a 2nd Trezor from Offline PC, if this is possible how would it be done?

Can I access the Trezor website in offline mode?

1. If this is possible I can test and make sure the Seed is working incase Trezor device breaks down.

2. Have a strong PIN and store the 2nd Trezor device on another location (lets say my home burns down and Trezor device nr1 and seed paper is lost). From my understanding todays technology it is pretty much impossible for regular thief to steal my coins if the PIN code is strong.

[Anduck]

If I own 2 Trezor devices, would it be possible to connect the new Trezor device to offline PC, type in the 24 word seed & this way have 2 Trezor devices that have exactly same wallets stored in them?

I'm confident that my PC does not have keylogger, however for extra safety it would be cool to be able to move the seed to a 2nd Trezor from Offline PC, if this is possible how would it be done?

Can I access the Trezor website in offline mode?

1. If this is possible I can test and make sure the Seed is working incase Trezor device breaks down.

2. Have a strong PIN and store the 2nd Trezor device on another location (lets say my home burns down and Trezor device nr1 and seed paper is lost). From my understanding todays technology it is pretty much impossible for regular thief to steal my coins if the PIN code is strong.

Same seed in both devices means they both use same wallet. If you use a passphrase, it also needs to be the same, as the password is "25th" word in the seed and therefore affects the generated wallet. Pin can be different, AFAIK.

I suggest backing up everything at these as 3 copies, 3 different locations and preferably formats.

[jiijj1]

If I own 2 Trezor devices, would it be possible to connect the new Trezor device to offline PC, type in the 24 word seed & this way have 2 Trezor devices that have exactly same wallets stored in them?

I'm confident that my PC does not have keylogger, however for extra safety it would be cool to be able to move the seed to a 2nd Trezor from Offline PC, if this is possible how would it be done?

Can I access the Trezor website in offline mode?

1. If this is possible I can test and make sure the Seed is working incase Trezor device breaks down.

2. Have a strong PIN and store the 2nd Trezor device on another location (lets say my home burns down and Trezor device nr1 and seed paper is lost). From my understanding todays technology it is pretty much impossible for regular thief to steal my coins if the PIN code is strong.

Same seed in both devices means they both use same wallet. If you use a passphrase, it also needs to be the same, as the password is "25th" word in the seed and therefore affects the generated wallet. Pin can be different, AFAIK.

I suggest backing up everything at these as 3 copies, 3 different locations and preferably formats.

not sure how you mean storing 3 copies in 3 different locations and differents formats?
do you mean location 1 has passphrase only?
location 2 has 24 word seed only?
location 3 has the Trezor device only?

So from reading Trezor manual my understanding is even if I get extremely unlucky and my PC has Keylogger it would take 3.5 years for someone with the hashing power of bitcoin to get the correct order of 24 word seed?
so for regular users this would mean 100+ years?

If this is true I should be able to move the seed while online from Trezor 1 to Trezor 2 confidently?

I think the only function of the passphrase is that I can openly have the other 24 words of the seed in my home, even if someone steals my 24 word seed they still can't get to my coins in wallet that are protected by the passphrase?

so If I make sure I have a long passphrase coins are safe as long as I don't forget the passphrase.

[BitcoinNewsMagazine]

If I own 2 Trezor devices, would it be possible to connect the new Trezor device to offline PC, type in the 24 word seed & this way have 2 Trezor devices that have exactly same wallets stored in them?

I'm confident that my PC does not have keylogger, however for extra safety it would be cool to be able to move the seed to a 2nd Trezor from Offline PC, if this is possible how would it be done?

Can I access the Trezor website in offline mode?

1. If this is possible I can test and make sure the Seed is working incase Trezor device breaks down.

2. Have a strong PIN and store the 2nd Trezor device on another location (lets say my home burns down and Trezor device nr1 and seed paper is lost). From my understanding todays technology it is pretty much impossible for regular thief to steal my coins if the PIN code is strong.

You have to be online to access any website, including mytrezor.com. You can certainly restore your seed to a new Trezor but you will be online while doing so. Your 24 word seed will be displayed out of order during the restore process.