[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[sugarfly]

he didn't use the name TREZOR though… he just called it "this little device"…  

So sadly, no free promotion for you guys.

But we who know, know.

-sf-

[sugarfly]

haha, it gets even better… joe rogan "mocking" TREZOR calling it "little goophy f*cking bitcoin thing"

https://youtu.be/1sOxtBiBpE4

2:08:13

LMAO!  

-sf-

[Anon136]

haha, it gets even better… joe rogan "mocking" TREZOR calling it "little goophy f*cking bitcoin thing"

https://youtu.be/1sOxtBiBpE4

2:08:13

LMAO! 

Pay close attention. He wasnt calling it a goofy fing bitcoin thing. He was speculating that andreas' mom calls it that.

[sugarfly]

Pay close attention. He wasnt calling it a goofy fing bitcoin thing. He was speculating that andreas' mom calls it that.

Ehm yes, I was trying to make a joke. I'm sorry it flew over your head like that.  
Anyway, I find it funny that they talked about the TREZOR for about 10 minutes without mentioning it by name.

-sf-

[mrsky]

Hi guys, I believe I'm as much hyped and "in love" with my Trezor as most of the guys around here.
One thing that stills puzzles me is if I can trust that there is no backdoor in these wallets? There is any resources of security experts that audited the product?
I understand Satoshi Labs is not a small BTC player and as miners they have interest that people feel secure in order to mine and buy BTCs without problems.

Just asking, real noob here. Cheers!

[Anon136]

Hi guys, I believe I'm as much hyped and "in love" with my Trezor as most of the guys around here.
One thing that stills puzzles me is if I can trust that there is no backdoor in these wallets? There is any resources of security experts that audited the product?
I understand Satoshi Labs is not a small BTC player and as miners they have interest that people feel secure in order to mine and buy BTCs without problems.

Just asking, real noob here. Cheers!

This guy, Jochen Hoenicke, must have taken a pretty good run at trying to exploit it considering he succeeded.  That vulnerability has since been patched and now hes listed as a team member.

[xbach]

Hi guys, I believe I'm as much hyped and "in love" with my Trezor as most of the guys around here.
One thing that stills puzzles me is if I can trust that there is no backdoor in these wallets? There is any resources of security experts that audited the product?
I understand Satoshi Labs is not a small BTC player and as miners they have interest that people feel secure in order to mine and buy BTCs without problems.

Just asking, real noob here. Cheers!

The firmware running in Trezor is fully open-sourced, so everyone can audit the device. If we decided to implement a backdoor into the device, someone would notice it immediately (especially now, given that there is competition on the market).

Speaking from ideological point of view, it would be against our values to put a backdoor into Trezor. More importantly though, it would surely taint something that everyone in the team has worked so hard to build. The founders of SatoshiLabs are not some unknown peeps, but, I dare to say, are quite well-respected, so it would hurt them the most.

Of course, questions like these are welcome. You should not blindly trust someone!

[aamarket]

What if it hurts a little, but brings loads of BTC ?

[bitcapitalist]

When will the new trezor be available? Any idea?

[Anon136]

I was just thinking about something the other day that I can't seem to stop thinking about. Imagine a world with wide spread trezor adoption. And really this vision has nothing to do with crypto currency so to speak. At least it doesn't because it needn't and since everyone here is so cryptocurrency focused it I think it is useful, in making my point, to pretend like no such thing exists.

Imagine that each check out line at the store has a socket that ones trezor can be inserted into. It then proceeds to ask a question. Any question it likes. Example, transfer 50 USD from bank account UVW to account XYZ? Yes or no? Or would you like to transfer 0.01 ounces of gold from vault id ABC to vault id DEF. To which you can reply yes in exchange for the groceries the cacheer has just rung up for you. The cashier can then relay the digitally signed instructions to your bank to be validated. Imagine the same device can be used to securely authenticate on any website. Imagine it is used to sign a contract when you take out a loan or request that a service be provided in the future. Imagine your credit score is tied to that public key. Imagine you can request your craigslist partner to digitally authenticate before wasting your time to dive out to see him for nothing.

One device could securely manage every single identity related aspect of our lives. Which is every aspect of reputation and commerce. Its not just the money that would be saved in fraud prevention, that benefit would be in the TRILLIONS and it would only be the tip of the ice berg. More benefits still would come in the tearing down of archaic fraud prevention infrastructure. Even that is the smaller portion still. The biggest benefits would come in the form of eliminating transaction friction. The scope and scale of this benefit is beyond comprehension. All benefits combined I wouldn't be surprised to see a +10% increase in the net productivity of the human species. It would be like materializing a half dozen new Dubais and a half dozen new Hong Kongs out of the ether for the price of like $10 per human being (maybe less im not sure just how cheap trezors could be if produced at massive scale).

Can you even imagine.

Maybe I'll become wealthy enough to buy this company someday and push forward this vision. If the satoshi labs heroes ever could be compelled to sell

*edit* I'm constantly trying to explain why I'm such a ridiculous nerd for these little devices. Maybe this will go further than any of my other posts towards explaining why.

[xbach]

What if it hurts a little, but brings loads of BTC ?

Oh, I really don't think cheating out on the BTC world would only hurt "a little."

When will the new trezor be available? Any idea?

Work is in progress, quite diligently I must say, but no ETA  (Hackathon is coming up though!)

I was just thinking about something the other day that I can't seem to stop thinking about. Imagine a world with wide spread trezor adoption. And really this vision has nothing to do with crypto currency so to speak. At least it doesn't because it needn't and since everyone here is so cryptocurrency focused it I think it is useful, in making my point, to pretend like no such thing exists.

Imagine that each check out line at the store has a socket that ones trezor can be inserted into. It then proceeds to ask a question. Any question it likes. Example, transfer 50 USD from bank account UVW to account XYZ? Yes or no? To which you can reply yes in exchange for the groceries the cacheer has just rung up for you. The cashier can then relay the digitally signed instructions to your bank to be validated. Imagine the same device can be used to securely authenticate on any website. Imagine it is used to sign a contract when you take out a loan or request that a service be provided in the future. Imagine your credit score is tied to that public key. Imagine you can request your craigslist partner to digitally authenticate before wasting your time to dive out to see him for nothing.

One device could securely manage every single identity related aspect of our lives. Which is every aspect of reputation and commerce. Its not just the money that would be saved in fraud prevention, that benefit would be in the TRILLIONS and it would only be the tip of the ice berg. More benefits still would come in the tearing down of archaic fraud prevention infrastructure. Even that is the smaller portion still. The biggest benefits would come in the form of eliminating transaction friction. The scope and scale of this benefit is beyond comprehension. All benefits combined I wouldn't be surprised to see a +10% increase in the net productivity of the human species. It would be like materializing a half dozen new Dubais and a half dozen new Hong Kongs out of the ether for the price of like $10 per human being (maybe less im not sure just how cheap trezors could be if produced at massive scale).

Can you even imagine.

Maybe I'll become wealthy enough to buy this company someday and push forward this vision. If the satoshi labs heroes ever could be compelled to sell

*edit* I'm constantly trying to explain why I'm such a ridiculous nerd for these little devices. Maybe this will go further than any of my other posts towards explaining why.

EDIT: Clicked Post too early.

Sounds like utopia maybe one day we will get there I'd love to use my Trezor for everything too

[Anon136]

Sounds like utopia maybe one day we will get there I'd love to use my Trezor for everything too

Yea. You know how history always has funny visions about the future? And in reality it turns out things have progressed a lot except in weirder ways than people expected. Like how we got the iphone instead of the flying car. Its sort of just as amazing if you think about it but VERY few people predicted it when people were envisioning flying cars.

That is what cryptographically secure, open source, intuitively operated and widely adopted identity management will be like. It will be so much bigger than bitcoin. Bitcoin was just devices like these first killer app. The first application that was so blindingly obvious that it was on the margin for first ever reason for creating devices like these. However, the whole rest of the entire world economy yet awaits.

If we (or someone) can manage to foster adoption of this type of product more broadly in the economy, it really could really be a next level development for the species of man.

[xbach]

Sounds like utopia maybe one day we will get there I'd love to use my Trezor for everything too

Yea. You know how history always has funny visions about the future? And in reality it turns out things have progressed a lot except in weirder ways than people expected. Like how we got the iphone instead of the flying car. Its sort of just as amazing if you think about it but VERY few people predicted it when people were envisioning flying cars.

That is what secure, open source, intuitively operated and widely adopted identity management will be like. It will be so much bigger than bitcoin. Bitcoin was just devices like these first killer app. The first application that was so blindingly obvious that it was on the margin for first ever reasons for creating devices like these. However, the whole rest of the entire world economy yet awaits.

If we (or someone) can manage to foster adoption of this type of product more broadly in the economy, it really could really be a next level development for the species of man.

You're mentioning open source.. I still remember when open source was frowned upon, now it is quite a common standard, and becoming even more common. Especially for security.

There is always room for improvement and we never know what awaits us

[xbach]

Talking about open source....

Here are 5 Reasons Why There Is No Secure Element in TREZOR

https://blog.trezor.io/is-banking-grade-security-good-enough-for-your-bitcoins-284065561e9b#.hgk9bbw74

[cor]

Can you even imagine.

steering towards..

[Dabs]

Imagine a world with wide spread trezor adoption.

I'd probably be in the minority when I say this, but if that becomes true I would get rid of my trezor. Privacy and such stuff.

Reality would be, I'd keep one for regular stuff, for convenience, but for everything else I don't want the world to know, it will be offline / off-the-grid.

What you described looks like a database of everything you do attached to a device. Whoever owns the company behind these devices would be rich with data (which they can sell.)

[Anon136]

Imagine a world with wide spread trezor adoption.

I'd probably be in the minority when I say this, but if that becomes true I would get rid of my trezor. Privacy and such stuff.

Reality would be, I'd keep one for regular stuff, for convenience, but for everything else I don't want the world to know, it will be offline / off-the-grid.

What you described looks like a database of everything you do attached to a device. Whoever owns the company behind these devices would be rich with data (which they can sell.)

You could put an endless series of unique identities on the BIP 32 tree structure. Its personal identity management we are talking about here. This is identity freedom. Identity empowerment.

Right now we are forced to use almost one identity for everything due to technological limits. If you want to get a loan for a house you have to give unfettered access to the entirety of your personal identity. This is the tyranny. Not the freedom that trezor would afford by empowering its users with the capacity to authenticate with the identity of their chossing, without reveling other identities or even if they have other identities.

You could literally have "rep" as a trustful drug dealer. Verify your rep before a client even talks to you so that he knows you arent a cop. Then hand your trazor to a cop and he would have no way of using it to identify you as mr drug dealer. That is like the least Orwellian thing I have ever heard.

What do you guys think. Do you think I could make a living as what andreas antonopoulos is to bitcoin except for trezor?

[Dabs]

You could put an endless series of unique identities on the BIP 32 tree structure. Its personal identity management we are talking about here. This is identity freedom. Identity empowerment.

Since you put it that way, it is probably a convenient way to carry your entire wallet with different identities with you on a small device. I'll wait till it evolves a little further or the price drops some more. (I don't have a trezor, or any other hardware wallet for that matter.)

For regular world "credit rating" you would need to consolidate everything into one identity though. There's just no way around that. One social security number / tax identification number / social insurance number / driver's license number / passport number. If you're a normal average person who would go through a normal average life, you need to stick to one identity for your home, your credit, your car and any loans from a normal bank.

We do that already anyway. The rest, like you say, can have as many identities as you require, effectively making it like electronic cash, and you simply ignore any "points" or "miles" or whatever. If it's a new identity per new transaction.

[Carlton Banks]

You could put an endless series of unique identities on the BIP 32 tree structure. Its personal identity management we are talking about here. This is identity freedom. Identity empowerment.

Right now we are forced to use almost one identity for everything due to technological limits. If you want to get a loan for a house you have to give unfettered access to the entirety of your personal identity. This is the tyranny. Not the freedom that trezor would afford by empowering its users with the capacity to authenticate with the identity of their chossing, without reveling other identities or even if they have other identities.

You could literally have "rep" as a trustful drug dealer. Verify your rep before a client even talks to you so that he knows you arent a cop. Then hand your trazor to a cop and he would have no way of using it to identify you as mr drug dealer. That is like the least Orwellian thing I have ever heard.

Unfortunately, the highly creative slave-masters who use the criminal alias "government" are several steps ahead. Not only are they full of talk about "no absolute right to privacy", but the "pre-crime" concept is actually beginning to get talked up by their degenerate criminal associates (a.k.a by their criminal moniker "policy think-tanks").

Won't give up your keys? "Thought crime" will put a stop to that. These "just-following-orders" types need to actually realise that everyday people can secure their own rights, that rights are not always something that someone bigger and stronger allows you to do.

What do you guys think. Do you think I could make a living as what andreas antonopoulos is to bitcoin except for trezor?

What makes you think Andreas makes a living doing what he does?

For regular world "credit rating" you would need to consolidate everything into one identity though. There's just no way around that. One social security number / tax identification number / social insurance number / driver's license number / passport number. If you're a normal average person who would go through a normal average life, you need to stick to one identity for your home, your credit, your car and any loans from a normal bank.

Why are you creating an association between those different data sets? What is the common factor between them that determines the benefit of associating them?

[Anon136]

Won't give up your keys? "Thought crime" will put a stop to that. These "just-following-orders" types need to actually realise that everyday people can secure their own rights, that rights are not always something that someone bigger and stronger allows you to do.

This is just a variant of the $5 wrench attack. You could selectively reveal some identities but not others. Thats the nice thing about the bip32 tree structure. You have no way of knowing whether or not a given node is at the top of the tree or not.

What makes you think Andreas makes a living doing what he does?

Well yea by talking his book. Don't know how that would work with trezor.