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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006806 times)
1Neptune
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February 18, 2014, 07:43:15 PM
 #30121

"I would take it that KnC is providing refunds in BTC as it's cheaper than doing so in dollars."

Wrong. It's the same for them. Unless they were paying banking fees, not the receiving customer. Otherwise the customer receives the same amount of $$ he originally paid, converted into BTC at the rate the refund occurs.

"Unless they were paying banking fees, not the receiving customer."

Right. The sender pays the wire transfer fees and almost always the receiver is also charged a fee by their bank. Money changers in the temple of commerce, remember? Greedy bankers get their cut on both ends of the transaction.

Refunding in BTC being less expensive than dollars was my original point, regarding wire transfer fees and exchange fees to convert dollars into BTC. However, KnC isn't likely having to exchange any dollars into BTC, having mined 5% or much more, so RIGHT, yes, it's cheaper to refund in BTC than in dollars for several reasons.
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February 18, 2014, 10:07:34 PM
 #30122

Hi folks, time for another reality check using very conservative numbers:

Assumptions & Numbers:
1) Delivery date:  05/31/2014
2) Hash: 3 TH
4) Power: 1500  @0.15 rate
5) Start difficulty(assuming +20% per):  3,129,573,175 * 1.2^7 = 11213826512
6) Difficulty increase thereafter: 10% (0.06 profitability decline factor)
7) BTC/USD: $620
8 ) Neptune cost: $10000

Profitability after 12 month: -1792.58 USD (LOSS)

---------------
Pro:  
1) Delivered hashrate may be higher than the stated 3 TH

Con(risk):
1) End of may delivery
2) Difficulty increase may be >10% thereafter (given the massive TH boxes coming online)
3) Time resource to setup/maintain hardware
4) Power consumption may be 1500W

Conclusion:
1) You must be batsh** crazy to preorder this hardware.


Those are not very conservative numbers. I'd say a good but very plausible scenario is 3500Ghps speed, 8-10b difficulty at delivery time and on average 5% or less difficulty increase from there on out. Plus the bitcoin value is currently in a post-crash valley.

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BTC: 1Fahk2aa4NS4Qds4VDAL4mpNArDEdV2K5K
joeventura
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February 18, 2014, 10:16:34 PM
 #30123

Gee I wonder how they are refunding,

Is it in BTC if we paid in BTC,
or Fiat if we paid in BTC or
Fiat if we paid in Fiat,
or clam shells if we paid in beads....


You all sound like a bunch of old women.

If only there was a way you could get an answer to these questions............

ASK KNC

Stop postulating, and speculating. They have a phone and they actually answer emails pretty quickly.

You ALL are getting the Cloudhashing option. ALL OF YOU.

Now that you know that, make a decision.  All those who are early adopters, you are getting screwed unless you get a refund.

How could you not ask for a refund? The math is clear that you will not make back your investment and even if you made back $500 you still are screwed.

Does anyone know what Net Present value of Money is or what it means??

NPV can be described as the “difference amount” between the sums of discounted: cash inflows and cash outflows. It compares the present value of money today to the present value of money in the future, taking inflation and returns into account


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February 18, 2014, 10:20:31 PM
 #30124

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.


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joeventura
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February 18, 2014, 10:22:03 PM
 #30125

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

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February 18, 2014, 10:24:29 PM
 #30126

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

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joeventura
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February 18, 2014, 10:36:15 PM
 #30127

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.


So here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?


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February 19, 2014, 12:55:24 AM
 #30128


Well, gox price is no longer a correct mark since long ago Smiley Speaking for myself, I actually sent my bank info when I requested the refund, but I was told I'll get BTC instead because I used Bitapy to pay for my orders. The email didn't sound like an option, but was rather imperative. At first I even thought they might intend to return the exact same amount of BTC I originally sent, but I was quickly enlighten that the amount will be the $$ value of my orders at Bitstamp's rate at the moment of refund taking place. I also was more than happy to receive the refund in BTC, thus saving some banking fees Smiley

P.S. This is indeed the first positive ROI I obtained on KNC gear. Still an unrecoverable amount remaining from my Oct batch Sad

Aye - Same here

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February 19, 2014, 01:12:33 AM
 #30129

<snip>

You ALL are getting the Cloudhashing option. ALL OF YOU.

</snip>


This!  ^^^^

And it really isn't an "option" since there will not be another choice.
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February 19, 2014, 02:33:33 AM
 #30130

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.

If prices are quoted in fiat and bitcoin is only a payment option, I'd consider the fiat price to be a fair return.

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February 19, 2014, 02:36:18 AM
 #30131

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.

If prices are quoted in fiat and bitcoin is only payment option, I'd consider the fiat price to be a fair return.


but thats not the case so why are we still discussing it?

and you edited it out of your last response, so  here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?

(my money is on NO)

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organofcorti
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February 19, 2014, 02:47:50 AM
 #30132

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.

If prices are quoted in fiat and bitcoin is only payment option, I'd consider the fiat price to be a fair return.


but thats not the case so why are we still discussing it?

and you edited it out of your last response, so  here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?

(my money is on NO)

I edited it out because it's a pointless question. I also noticed that you didn't read my answer, or replied to it with a non-sequitur.

To answer your question no, I have no Neptunes on order - or any other miner. Why does that matter? I'm certainly less biased than someone who does have something to gain or lose.

Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

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1l1l11ll1l
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February 19, 2014, 03:57:50 AM
 #30133

So where did the BTC refund come from did they buy it on bitstamp, or was it sent from 1A73ExsM2doRwTLp82rv5U36QHbBFmHD1X or from 1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

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February 19, 2014, 04:01:02 AM
 #30134

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.

If prices are quoted in fiat and bitcoin is only payment option, I'd consider the fiat price to be a fair return.


but thats not the case so why are we still discussing it?

and you edited it out of your last response, so  here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?

(my money is on NO)

I edited it out because it's a pointless question. I also noticed that you didn't read my answer, or replied to it with a non-sequitur.

To answer your question no, I have no Neptunes on order - or any other miner. Why does that matter? I'm certainly less biased than someone who does have something to gain or lose.

Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

It doesn't matter, but I am a customer of KNC and I come here for INFORMATION about the company and all I have seen of late is (not just you so don't take it personal) a bunch of people whining and speculating and postulating about stuff that is old news, about the train that has left the station. And frankly like I have said earlier, This company will never see another dime of mine, but they have never seen a dime from you and the arm chair/no skin in the game comments from many here is just getting old.

Again not a personal attack but pages and pages and pages of bullsh*t is just so tedious.

Here is the reality:

People who have ordered Neptunes, you are all now KNCCLOUD.COM customers. Period. End of story.
You can stop postulating about delivery dates. There is going to be no delivery so you can stop talking about it.

Regarding refunds:
If 1 year of 3TH hashing power delivered to you on (HAHAHA) June 1st (101 days from now, or about 10 difficulty increases) is going to make you back your purchase price then by all means don't get a refund (and remind me to tell you about a bridge I have to sell)

The facts of life:

Bitcoinorama is gone, he isn't coming back because his employers LIED to him (the lie of omission) and he won't come here and face the wrath, I wouldn't ether.

If you ask KNC if they have any intention to deliver the Neptune rather than start a cloud mining company called KNCCLOUD.COM (domain already registered) they are going to LIE to you or the customer service people will just give you some crappy polite response.

In the last week of May all customers will likely get an email saying "Sorry we didn't make it in time, PLan B is what we are going with"

then in July the Neptune will populate the biggest Cloud hashing company on the planet. KNCCLOUD.com

Such short memories you all have. I told you Plan B was coming a full week before it happened as I recall.

You can buy 3TH of Antminers today for that $12k and make up the extra cost of electricity plus a huge profit and start hashing in a week or two.

This of course is all just MY Opinion. I could be wrong. (but don't count on it)

 

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February 19, 2014, 04:05:19 AM
 #30135



Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

Here is your answer, If you paid for your $12k Neptune with $12k worth of BTC, then you will get $12k worth of BTC back.


Ask someone who paid in BTC and asked for a refund what happened.


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Poor impulse control.


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February 19, 2014, 04:19:45 AM
 #30136



Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

Here is your answer, If you paid for your $12k Neptune with $12k worth of BTC, then you will get $12k worth of BTC back.


Ask someone who paid in BTC and asked for a refund what happened.



Ah, well I misunderstood you - that's what I would have expected to happen.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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arlekyn13
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February 19, 2014, 06:06:04 AM
 #30137

So where did the BTC refund come from did they buy it on bitstamp, or was it sent from 1A73ExsM2doRwTLp82rv5U36QHbBFmHD1X or from 1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

First part of your question: no idea
Second part: no

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February 19, 2014, 06:59:01 AM
 #30138

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.

If prices are quoted in fiat and bitcoin is only payment option, I'd consider the fiat price to be a fair return.


but thats not the case so why are we still discussing it?

and you edited it out of your last response, so  here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?

(my money is on NO)

I edited it out because it's a pointless question. I also noticed that you didn't read my answer, or replied to it with a non-sequitur.

To answer your question no, I have no Neptunes on order - or any other miner. Why does that matter? I'm certainly less biased than someone who does have something to gain or lose.

Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

...snip...

The facts of life:

Bitcoinorama is gone, he isn't coming back because his employers LIED to him and he won't come here and face the wrath, I wouldn't ether.

...snip...
 

Do you think Bitcoinorama is under a non-disclosure agreement and has left the company?

For what it's worth:

knccloud.com was registered 09-jan-2014

whois shows this as the registrant, admin and technical contact: samcole@hotmail.co.uk
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February 19, 2014, 07:55:41 AM
 #30139

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.



Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.

If prices are quoted in fiat and bitcoin is only payment option, I'd consider the fiat price to be a fair return.


but thats not the case so why are we still discussing it?

and you edited it out of your last response, so  here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?

(my money is on NO)

I edited it out because it's a pointless question. I also noticed that you didn't read my answer, or replied to it with a non-sequitur.

To answer your question no, I have no Neptunes on order - or any other miner. Why does that matter? I'm certainly less biased than someone who does have something to gain or lose.

Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

It doesn't matter, but I am a customer of KNC and I come here for INFORMATION about the company and all I have seen of late is (not just you so don't take it personal) a bunch of people whining and speculating and postulating about stuff that is old news, about the train that has left the station. And frankly like I have said earlier, This company will never see another dime of mine, but they have never seen a dime from you and the arm chair/no skin in the game comments from many here is just getting old.

Again not a personal attack but pages and pages and pages of bullsh*t is just so tedious.

Here is the reality:

People who have ordered Neptunes, you are all now KNCCLOUD.COM customers. Period. End of story.
You can stop postulating about delivery dates. There is going to be no delivery so you can stop talking about it.

Regarding refunds:
If 1 year of 3TH hashing power delivered to you on (HAHAHA) June 1st (101 days from now, or about 10 difficulty increases) is going to make you back your purchase price then by all means don't get a refund (and remind me to tell you about a bridge I have to sell)

The facts of life:

Bitcoinorama is gone, he isn't coming back because his employers LIED to him and he won't come here and face the wrath, I wouldn't ether.

If you ask KNC if they have any intention to deliver the Neptune rather than start a cloud mining company called KNCCLOUD.COM (domain already registered) they are going to LIE to you or the customer service people will just give you some crappy polite response.

In the last week of May all customers will likely get an email saying "Sorry we didn't make it in time, PLan B is what we are going with"

then in July the Neptune will populate the biggest Cloud hashing company on the planet. KNCCLOUD.com

Such short memories you all have. I told you Plan B was coming a full week before it happened as I recall.

You can buy 3TH of Antminers today for that $12k and make up the extra cost of electricity plus a huge profit and start hashing in a week or two.

This of course is all just MY Opinion. I could be wrong. (but don't count on it)

 

Big + 1

I think the same in the last few weeks but my Englis isn't enough good to write it down.

That sucks....

" I'm waiting for my punishment, I know it's on my way
  So cut, cut, cut me up and fuck, fuck, fuck me up"
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February 19, 2014, 11:11:59 AM
 #30140



Here's a question for you though. If the btc price had dropped to below the btc price you paid when ordering, would you still want the refund in bitcoin? Or do you just want whatever will give you the most value?

Here is your answer, If you paid for your $12k Neptune with $12k worth of BTC, then you will get $12k worth of BTC back.

Ask someone who paid in BTC and asked for a refund what happened.


I paid in bitcoin and have been refused a refund in bitcoin
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