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 Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3031296 times)
Biodom
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 February 15, 2014, 11:36:27 PM

I have analyzed some available data re Boden center:
http://www.thelocal.se/20140213/bitcoin-giant-to-open-new-mega-swedish-hub
and
http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/1.2276893-datorhall-for-bitcoin-byggs-i-boden

Initial parameters: 5500 sq. meters
This is approximately 70x80m
Assuming that shelfs with modules are 90% of space or ~5000 sq meters with 70X70 am dedicated to hashing units.
By looking at the pictures in detail and guesstimating some parameters it looks like that the are at least 35 vertical units with each unit being ~1.0-1.5 wide (has to accept 5 hashing units). Analysis of the video provides more precise estimate of ~40 vertical units in a row because there are about ~20 vertical units before the middle column which is most likely central, hence i am comfortable with ~40 vertical units in each row. Next parameter-distance between rows: by the photograph in thelocal.se it looks like about 1m between rows with hashing units and about 1.5m between backsides (where wires are).  Shelfs are about 1m wide. Therefore, each double sided hashing row is approximately 4.5 meters wide=0.75 (half of service row)+1 (shelf)+1 (narrow row where Kinnemaar is standing)+1 (another shelf)+ 0.75 (another half of service row). Therefore, there are 70/4.5=15-16 such double rows. With 2X40X30=2400 hashing units per each double row, this facility has (or will have) ~36000-38400+/-10-15% hashing units. I assume that each hashing unit is ~0.16th/s (I am not sure about this-please correct if I am wrong here).

If so, then total hashing capacity of this facility is ~5.76-6.14Ph/s or 1920-2048 Neptune-equivalents at 3th/s. Batch zero and batch 1 together were ~2700 Neptunes. If 25% were refunded (pure quesstimate=675), then all current batch zero and batch 1 customers could be covered by this facility, but, interestingly, batch 2 customers would NOT be.

Edit: yes, it is 6 units, not 5 (video clearly shows 6-kudos to davebodger for correction), so 36 in a column, hence total comes down to 7-7.4ph/s or 2300-2460 Neptune equivalents (3th/s)
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ncs0ne
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 February 16, 2014, 12:58:29 AM

You could have it easier.
http://thenodepole.com/2014/02/06/knc-miner-to-build-10-mw-datacenter-in-the-node-pole/

10MW = 10.000.000W => 1W per GH/s => 10.000.000 GH/s = 10.000 TH/s = 10 PH/s

3TH/s*3Batches*1200units=10.800 TH/s = 10.8 PH/s.
Those 800TH/s (~260 Neptunes) are whether canceled or they have somewhere else (current location?) ~125*4 boards (28nm) available.

Enough to cover all 3 batches I'd say.
And that's maybe the reason why the hosting is limited to 3TH/s even with the announcement they made 11% improvement on the chip-design.

*edit:
Can remember that there was some info about another 2 locations they will build as soon as this one has been finished.

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 February 16, 2014, 01:09:31 AM

Nice analysis both ones!

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 February 16, 2014, 01:19:50 AM

then all current batch zero and batch 1 customers could be covered by this facility, but, interestingly, batch 2 customers would NOT be.

Only means they would need to get batch zero out the door to clear out capacity before batch 2 are entitled to hash rate compensation.
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 February 16, 2014, 01:51:35 AM

I have analyzed some available data re Boden center:
http://www.thelocal.se/20140213/bitcoin-giant-to-open-new-mega-swedish-hub
and
http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/1.2276893-datorhall-for-bitcoin-byggs-i-boden

Initial parameters: 5500 sq. meters
This is approximately 70x80m
Assuming that shelfs with modules are 90% of space or ~5000 sq meters with 70X70 am dedicated to hashing units.
By looking at the pictures in detail and guesstimating some parameters it looks like that the are at least 35 vertical units with each unit being ~1.0-1.5 wide (has to accept 5 hashing units). Analysis of the video provides more precise estimate of ~40 vertical units in a row because there are about ~20 vertical units before the middle column which is most likely central, hence i am comfortable with ~40 vertical units in each row. Next parameter-distance between rows: by the photograph in thelocal.se it looks like about 1m between rows with hashing units and about 1.5m between backsides (where wires are).  Shelfs are about 1m wide. Therefore, each double sided hashing row is approximately 4.5 meters wide=0.75 (half of service row)+1 (shelf)+1 (narrow row where Kinnemaar is standing)+1 (another shelf)+ 0.75 (another half of service row). Therefore, there are 70/4.5=15-16 such double rows. With 2X40X30=2400 hashing units per each double row, this facility has (or will have) ~36000-38400+/-10-15% hashing units. I assume that each hashing unit is ~0.16th/s (I am not sure about this-please correct if I am wrong here).
If so, then total hashing capacity of this facility is ~5.76-6.14Ph/s or 1920-2048 Neptune-equivalents at 3th/s. Batch zero and batch 1 together were ~2700 Neptunes. If 25% were refunded (pure quesstimate=675), then all current batch zero and batch 1 customers could be covered by this facility, but, interestingly, batch 2 customers would NOT be.
You may want to cross-reference with the prospectus: http://www.business-sweden.se/en/Invest/Industry-Opportunities/ICT/The-Data-Center-Initiative/Available-Data-Center-sites/Existing-buildings/The_node_pole_Boden-_Industrial_Buildings/
I think they are in "Building 1", by looking at the big red doors.
Looking it up on Google maps and measuring the building sizes directly from that gives Building 1 as 130m x 44m.
I suspect the area within that they are using is roughly 120m x 42m, as some of the space is used by internal offices.
I agree the shelf size looks like 1m x 1m and I think the gap between rows in the cold aisles is more like 2m because they are using ambient air cooling which needs wide rows to work well as there does not appear to be any air-handling equipment to supply the cold air to those aisles (other than the heatsink cooling fans themselves sucking it in).
The cooling efficiency of this setup is not great because of all the local air re-circulation but as they are not paying for the cold air I doubt they care too much.
A consideration would be the humidity of the air which at sub-zero could be very dry and data centres of this type would usually have an external air handling/conditioning unit to remove dust and re-humidify the air before injecting it into the cold aisles, to prevent static build-up. Let's hope those shelves are properly earthed.
The prospectus shows that long-term they are not limited to 10MW, and initially they would have "only" had 3MW available.
I think it's fair to guess that the hashing units they are using are based on the November Jupiter ones which are 0.17TH/s each (well, my ones are anyway).
I see 6 hashing units per shelf width (i.e. a fully populated Jupiter controller board) and 6 occupied shelves vertically (they are not currently populating the top shelf), so 36 per veritical column.
I agree with 40 columns deep in the rows they have shown, as you say.
Looking at the video, I think they have only racked 1/4 of the available floor space at the time the video was made, but this judgement is made difficult because they never show a shot across the opposite direction of the shed.

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 February 16, 2014, 01:52:40 AM

You could have it easier.
http://thenodepole.com/2014/02/06/knc-miner-to-build-10-mw-datacenter-in-the-node-pole/

10MW = 10.000.000W => 1W per GH/s => 10.000.000 GH/s = 10.000 TH/s = 10 PH/s

3TH/s*3Batches*1200units=10.800 TH/s = 10.8 PH/s.
Those 800TH/s (~260 Neptunes) are whether canceled or they have somewhere else (current location?) ~125*4 boards (28nm) available.

Enough to cover all 3 batches I'd say.
And that's maybe the reason why the hosting is limited to 3TH/s even with the announcement they made 11% improvement on the chip-design.

I don't think the 10MW will do it, per my calculations a while back:

--snip--
If it were (not IS) 1kw per nov jup, then they could power probably 9500 Nov Jupiters (ISH, factoring in other equipment and losses etc).

9500x650GH = ~ (< engineering symbol for "roughly") 6000TH

KNC have sold 3600x3TH machines, which is 10800TH

Which is why I think they need another building.

They will also want to have some cloud hashing power for themselves/shite-minr to sell, so they might actually need one even larger building or even 2 additional buildings to cover it all.

*edit:
Can remember that there was some info about another 2 locations they will build as soon as this one has been finished.
This?
http://www.globalsecuritymag.com/KnC-Miner-to-build-10-MW,20140206,42773.html
Quote
"KnC are also already in discussions with local authorities regarding the establishment of even larger facilities in the local area already later this spring, which would then bring even more business to the local community."

"I am not The Avenger"
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joeventura
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 February 16, 2014, 08:53:41 PM

Ok I am auctioning off my KNC controller board.  Link is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467568

I'll post this message one more time tomorrow in case this message gets buried.

Have a great weekend all!

Amazing how interest went to ZERO

LOL

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The Avenger
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 February 16, 2014, 09:53:40 PM

Amazing how interest went to ZERO

LOL
Why would anybody want a controller for boards no longer being sold to the public?

Also, you shot yourself in the foot with the remark you'd ignore any offers under 1BTC.

Someone who likes bitcoin memorabilia etc might have made a bid if you'd left it open to a bit of free market price discovery

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 February 16, 2014, 10:06:40 PM

Ok I am auctioning off my KNC controller board.  Link is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=467568

I'll post this message one more time tomorrow in case this message gets buried.

Have a great weekend all!

Amazing how interest went to ZERO

LOL

I'd say the starting price is too high, i'd give you 0.5BTC for it shipped to NL
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 February 17, 2014, 03:39:35 PM

Did everyone sold out their last bitcoin on MtGox for \$220 yesterday and now pulling out their last hair?
The last two weeks had shown that bitcoin is characterized by the following:
1. it is a beta level technology (at the most) despite 5 year testing phase and assurances from core developers
2. bad actors are in play (MtGox management)
3. there are no decent parties involved, including manufacturers, exchanges, large players (someone had shorted a lot)
or all of the above-this is the winner!

As such, what makes bitcoin better than the rest of the financial system?
I know the theoretical answer, but...

Still waiting on a word from KnC.
Interestingly, they did not post the video of their datacenter and local.se writeup with pictures on their twitter account, pretending that the datacenter does not exist.
Selective informational flow?
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 February 17, 2014, 04:20:54 PM

They've turned into scumbags.
soy
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 February 17, 2014, 05:03:34 PM

What's happened to the network hashrate?

It looks like blockchain.info says the hashrate is 912175GHS while Slush has a hashrate of 749586GHs!?

 ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████ ██ ████████▄▀█▄█ ███████▄▄ ▌ ▄▄▄ ▀██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ████ ██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ▄▄▄▄ ▀█████ ██ █████████ ▌ █████ █████ ██ █████▄▀▀  ▌ ▀▀▀▀ ▄█████ █▀█▄▀███████ ██ ████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀ .JINBI.. │││ merges gold’s investmentholding value withblockchain technology │ ....T H E   G O L D E N   I C O....────────     WHITEPAPER     ────────. │ JOIN ICO          2 1 s t  J U N E ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████ ██ ████████▄▀█▄█ ███████▄▄ ▌ ▄▄▄ ▀██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ████ ██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ▄▄▄▄ ▀█████ ██ █████████ ▌ █████ █████ ██ █████▄▀▀  ▌ ▀▀▀▀ ▄█████ █▀█▄▀███████ ██ ████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀
Biodom
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 February 17, 2014, 05:17:17 PM

What's happened to the network hashrate?

It looks like blockchain.info says the hashrate is 912175GHS while Slush has a hashrate of 749586GHs!?

Ha, this is probably zeroblock app glitch. My phone shows:
Blocktime:205.71min
Hash rate: 912,175
Next difficulty:296 days.

I think that we probably should just ignore it since bitcoinwisdom shows OK numbers
However, this is bizarre:
https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Edit: stats back to normal at 12:45pm eastern
pedrosoft
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 February 17, 2014, 05:24:44 PM

and so... Neptune refund or not ... ? what do you think ?
Biodom
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 February 17, 2014, 05:26:41 PM

and so... Neptune refund or not ... ? what do you think ?

Not with next difficulty in 296 days, LOL
soy
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 February 17, 2014, 05:29:17 PM

The malibility fix implemented.  It was P2P mining that used the changed address but with that drop in hashrate I suspect most aren't registering.  So, tho Slush shows typical hashing speed for its pool, whether the blocks are counting is a question.  MtGox said it was rebuilding its blockchain.  If blockchain.info is rebuilding its blockchain then maybe they have diverted processing power to that rather than registering hashrate?

Bitcoin-QT is still syncing.

Okay, blockchain.info is back to normal.

 ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████ ██ ████████▄▀█▄█ ███████▄▄ ▌ ▄▄▄ ▀██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ████ ██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ▄▄▄▄ ▀█████ ██ █████████ ▌ █████ █████ ██ █████▄▀▀  ▌ ▀▀▀▀ ▄█████ █▀█▄▀███████ ██ ████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀ .JINBI.. │││ merges gold’s investmentholding value withblockchain technology │ ....T H E   G O L D E N   I C O....────────     WHITEPAPER     ────────. │ JOIN ICO          2 1 s t  J U N E ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████ ██ ████████▄▀█▄█ ███████▄▄ ▌ ▄▄▄ ▀██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ████ ██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ▄▄▄▄ ▀█████ ██ █████████ ▌ █████ █████ ██ █████▄▀▀  ▌ ▀▀▀▀ ▄█████ █▀█▄▀███████ ██ ████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀
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Don't let the nam-shub in your operating system.

 February 17, 2014, 07:17:04 PM

They've turned into scumbags.

It's funny I just found this quote from June 27, 2013:

“The standard thing in your house should be a microwave, a fridge, and a bitcoin generator.”
--Sam Cole

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

I wonder how the Boten facility fits into that statement.....

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 February 17, 2014, 07:19:57 PM

They've turned into scumbags.

It's funny I just found this quote from June 27, 2013:

“The standard thing in your house should be a microwave, a fridge, and a bitcoin generator.”
--Sam Cole

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

I wonder how the Boten facility fits into that statement.....

i don't have a microwave. i want my money back.

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Biodom
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 February 17, 2014, 08:38:29 PM

Whoever this is, they increased hashing rate ~10% in the last 4 days. Now up to ~1ph or 20% of eligius pool (4% of the whole network).
The other account (http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX) is dropping a little bit.
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 February 17, 2014, 08:58:51 PM

i cant run my microwave anymore...

day 16 after requesting a refund for batch 2...

kurt says 3-10 more business days as the funds 'left their account' on friday the 14th

A post earlier in the thread showed dates and emails regarding a refund.  The salient points were they do refunds on Thursdays and it arrives in the bank account on Tuesdays.  That's after they have all the needed information.

 ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████ ██ ████████▄▀█▄█ ███████▄▄ ▌ ▄▄▄ ▀██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ████ ██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ▄▄▄▄ ▀█████ ██ █████████ ▌ █████ █████ ██ █████▄▀▀  ▌ ▀▀▀▀ ▄█████ █▀█▄▀███████ ██ ████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀ .JINBI.. │││ merges gold’s investmentholding value withblockchain technology │ ....T H E   G O L D E N   I C O....────────     WHITEPAPER     ────────. │ JOIN ICO          2 1 s t  J U N E ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████████████▄▀█▄▄█▀▄███████ ██ ████████▄▀█▄█ ███████▄▄ ▌ ▄▄▄ ▀██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ████ ██████ ██ █████████ ▌ ▄▄▄▄ ▀█████ ██ █████████ ▌ █████ █████ ██ █████▄▀▀  ▌ ▀▀▀▀ ▄█████ █▀█▄▀███████ ██ ████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▀███████████▀▄█▀▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀
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