Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[soy]

There's got to be more to the decision to build and release or not to build more Jupiters than whether to keep KnC workers busy or the effect on Neptune sales.  How often has the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences been awarded to a Scandinavian?  Often.  The rise in bitcoin value this last year will be studied closely for its applicability to future well known profitable investments in general.  KnC's production decisions will effect the ongoing evolution of economic theory.  Just a thought.

[1714048971]

1714048971

[soy]

The problem with capitalism is that an economy can have too many capitalists.  The same goes for bitcoin mining.  The stock market fixed this for themselves with mutual funds for retirement rather than the older retirement plan method of selling the company's stock to the employee.  It hurts to screw a former loyal employee so let them get their retirement in mutual funds.  This change allows for a class of successful capitalists and a class of mutual fund holding capitalists - thus you can have at the same time a successful capitalist class and an unsuccessful capitalist class.  Then the problem that an economy can have too many successful capitalists is solved.  Bitcoin mining will evolve to big farms in cold climates.  The mutual fund equivalent will be the sale of GHs of those farms but the farms owners will be making the good money.

[soy]

So a commercial bitcoin farm will be like a mutual fund comprised of any number of assets.  The addition or removal of miners from the farm will be like the mutual fund dropping or adding assets.  In the case of mutual funds if the fund has to pay kickbacks to a major brokerage house (Edward Jones) in order to be listed among the offerings shown/sold to "Preferred" clients and in retribution the fund (The Hartford Fund) removes valuable assets from the fund, the Security Exchange Commission has demonstrated its ability to step in and require a compensation be paid to the ripped off Preferred clients holding the fund.  Bitcoin has no SEC.

[matthewh3]

So a commercial bitcoin farm will like a mutual fund comprised of any number of assets.  The addition or removal of miners from the farm will be like the mutual fund dropping or adding assets.  In the case of mutual funds if the fund has to pay kickbacks to a major brokerage house (Edward Jones) in order to be listed among the offerings shown/sold to "Preferred" clients and in retribution the fund (The Hartford Fund) removes valuable assets from the fund, the Security Exchange Commission has demonstrated its ability to step in and require a compensation be paid to the ripped off Preferred clients holding the fund.  Bitcoin has no SEC.

There's no need to do three posts in a row consecutively and rapidly IMHO.  Have you never seen the edit button  

[soy]

Pools are all playing with the same blockchain.  How can one or another pool be very much more profitable than the others?  Online one could read of brokers describing the rich rewards Edward Jones *brokers* were getting.  It was said in amazement because other companies just couldn't reward their brokers that way.  Perhaps the posters were deliberately giving a clue under the radar.  It's amazing how quickly a corrupt broker can make an estate dwindle.  If all pools are hashing the same blockchain and the rewards from one are so much better, it can't be legit.

[timmmers]

Looking recently at dwindling returns, and although the return is less than what would have been after the attacks on Slush and Eligius the other night, but that not withstanding, the issue of increased difficulty and increasing network hashrate, the decline for a fixed hashing power is enough to make me wonder if it will continue so rapidly down that soon inefficient miners will stop paying their own way.

But the large degree that return will drop isn't effecting the sale of inefficient miners to noobs.  They will keep their inefficient miners online come hell or high water because they've paid so much and the chance the mined pittance will become fabulously valuable one day - completely ignoring that buying the btc outright is the smarter move.

Maybe the n00bs see articles with polls like the Coinbase one where the majority expect bitcoins to hit 5k by end 2014, look at the past year and think it will pay long term? It's risky, but not as risky as a pre-order from a company which never produced a rig, or that other one which takes a while to deliver what they promise.

Sooner or later there will be Jups available too (or modules), unless the KNC datacentre is going to mine at a loss they'll want to dump them (or the hosted folk will as their costs will hurt a lot by then). TBH that was what I thought their "watch and keep some coins free" was going to be about, them selling their kit while it could fetch a decent price? No idea how many rigs they have, but it's got to be a good few.

[The Avenger]

So a commercial bitcoin farm will like a mutual fund comprised of any number of assets.  The addition or removal of miners from the farm will be like the mutual fund dropping or adding assets.  In the case of mutual funds if the fund has to pay kickbacks to a major brokerage house (Edward Jones) in order to be listed among the offerings shown/sold to "Preferred" clients and in retribution the fund (The Hartford Fund) removes valuable assets from the fund, the Security Exchange Commission has demonstrated its ability to step in and require a compensation be paid to the ripped off Preferred clients holding the fund.  Bitcoin has no SEC.

There's no need to do three posts in a row consecutively and rapidly IMHO.  Have you never seen the edit button  

Also, most of this would be better suited to other areas of the forum - Bitcoin Discussion, Economics, Politics & Society + Off-topic. What the &*^$ has chat about mutual funds or the SEC got to do with knc hardware?

[ASIC-K]

soy, edit button is your friend.

[r1senfa17h]

Datacenters will not accommodate any device with an external PSU

external PSUs are on many SANs and some other things...   you won't see a computer PSU but there are many rank mounted power units

Good point, I'd be perfectly happy if they made their devices compatible with rack-mounted PSUs. They'd probably have to give up the PCI-E connectors though.

[DPoS]

Datacenters will not accommodate any device with an external PSU

external PSUs are on many SANs and some other things...   you won't see a computer PSU but there are many rank mounted power units

Good point, I'd be perfectly happy if they made their devices compatible with rack-mounted PSUs. They'd probably have to give up the PCI-E connectors though.

yes, or at least provide an internal distributed harness that you just plug in.  And those rack mounted PSUs could power multiple neptunes

[Ytterbium]

The answer is really easy.  They just need to keep selling Jupiters every month until they are done with the Neptune and then switch over.  3000 units a month would keep us in competition with CEX.io and any behind the scenes mining ops.  Not selling Jupiters is surrendering the future of mining to non-KNC customers.  It doesn't make sense.  If they want to take their time with the Neptune, they need to give us some hashing power in the meantime.

If they did that the difficulty would just go up even faster and it would mean even less money for miners. Why would you want KnC to flood the network with hashrate?  If you want more hashpower now, there are a number of places where you can order it and have it delivered immediately, with no waiting and very little risk. *ahem*

[rolling]

The answer is really easy.  They just need to keep selling Jupiters every month until they are done with the Neptune and then switch over.  3000 units a month would keep us in competition with CEX.io and any behind the scenes mining ops.  Not selling Jupiters is surrendering the future of mining to non-KNC customers.  It doesn't make sense.  If they want to take their time with the Neptune, they need to give us some hashing power in the meantime.

If they did that the difficulty would just go up even faster and it would mean even less money for miners. Why would you want KnC to flood the network with hashrate?  If you want more hashpower now, there are a number of places where you can order it and have it delivered immediately, with no waiting and very little risk. *ahem*

There are no miners for sale right now that will ROI and I don't mean break even.  I mean make a profit that is worth my investment. 

[padrino]

There are no miners for sale right now that will ROI and I don't mean break even.  I mean make a profit that is worth my investment. 

All depends on how you speculate on the price of BTC, and if you can manage to find decent deals but they sure are there..

[wasubii]

There are no miners for sale right now that will ROI and I don't mean break even.  I mean make a profit that is worth my investment. 

All depends on how you speculate on the price of BTC, and if you can manage to find decent deals but they sure are there..

Queue argument about ROI in BTC terms against fiat and righteous indignation regarding the speculation of BTC price not affecting mining calcs...

aaaaaand GO!

[DimensionsOfHell]

Well I don't know if this will make profit or not, but I am hoping so since KnC most likely won't be shipping anymore Jupiters, I've decided to invest elsewhere, as I've gotten tired of waiting on them to make a simple

decision; I've ordered 6 Bitmain AntMiner S1's today for a total of 1080Gh/s base (1200gh/s OC) for a total of 11.4BTCs. Hopefully I can mine with them for a month, and sell them on ebay for close to what I paid for

them (at least $1500 each). I'm hoping that should make a little bit of money.


Hopefully they at least sell some upgrade modules that work with Oct orders. I still have 3 slots left in my Saturn :-)

[DPoS]

Well I don't know if this will make profit or not

We are now at the part of this gen's mining phase where finding really cheap electric will make a difference on miners received today.
There will be a rash of stories in 2014 of people stashing miners at their work/college or other ways to get someone else to pay the costs since it will become a bigger % of the potential profits

Creative tax write-offs will also apply going forward as well

[soy]

What's going to happen this summer?  KnC has the best machines so far in my opinion and hopefully the Neptune will will live up to same standard of reliability and profitability.  We look at how long it will take a machine to return the btc it costs.  

We know the unknown dark competition putting hashing power on the net probably uses relatively inefficient ASICs.  A problem is that we don't know what they are paying for their miners.  If they have their own ASICs and their own design boards and are fielding their own machines in their farms, they get them cheap and their lesser efficiency isn't as big an issue.  If they are getting them cheap then this summer the total of what they can field might be a real problem.

[ASIC-K]

yup, just bought an antminer.

[newguy05]

Well I don't know if this will make profit or not, but I am hoping so since KnC most likely won't be shipping anymore Jupiters, I've decided to invest elsewhere, as I've gotten tired of waiting on them to make a simple

decision; I've ordered 6 Bitmain AntMiner S1's today for a total of 1080Gh/s base (1200gh/s OC) for a total of 11.4BTCs. Hopefully I can mine with them for a month, and sell them on ebay for close to what I paid for

them (at least $1500 each). I'm hoping that should make a little bit of money.


Hopefully they at least sell some upgrade modules that work with Oct orders. I still have 3 slots left in my Saturn :-)

fyi just so you know, selling on ebay is very dangerous same as russian roulette. Don't be fooled by all those sold auctions at high prices, i would say only <50% of those sold are actually successful.  If you are lucky you get a nonpayment, if you are not, you get a scammer, ebay/paypal always side with the buyer. I have had this happen to me twice already 1 for an asic miner card back when it was going for $4000, and another for an avalon.

I have been selling on ebay for over 15 years and know every trick in the book, but there is nothing you can do if you want to sell, just rolling the dice. Both scammers had high feedback rating and looked very legit, they just break something on the miner after a month like bending some metal or cooling fan wires, take a photo and file for claim or direct chargeback within 45 days. They then change their ebay id after a month or so, and since ebay doesn't allow you to search their id history (without knowing their new id) nor leave anything but positive feedbacks as seller, they cannot be blacklisted, and move on to the next victim with their perfect feedback.

There is nothing you can do but take the loss,  that's why i have stopped selling on ebay altogether.  

So make sure you factor that into your calculation the expectation of losing at least 1 miner out of that 6.  In addition to the risk of paypal limiting your account that will take months to get your money out (if it is under your name, if it's a stealth account kiss your money good bye), nothing gets your paypal account limited faster than selling multiple bitcoin hardware / casascius coins that's above $500.  Add insult, they take 10% in final value fee for everything you sell.

just saying...

[CYPER]

Well I don't know if this will make profit or not, but I am hoping so since KnC most likely won't be shipping anymore Jupiters, I've decided to invest elsewhere, as I've gotten tired of waiting on them to make a simple

decision; I've ordered 6 Bitmain AntMiner S1's today for a total of 1080Gh/s base (1200gh/s OC) for a total of 11.4BTCs. Hopefully I can mine with them for a month, and sell them on ebay for close to what I paid for

them (at least $1500 each). I'm hoping that should make a little bit of money.


Hopefully they at least sell some upgrade modules that work with Oct orders. I still have 3 slots left in my Saturn :-)

fyi just so you know, selling on ebay is very dangerous same as russian roulette. Don't be fooled by all those sold auctions at high prices, i would say only <50% of those sold are actually successful.  If you are lucky you get a nonpayment, if you are not, you get a scammer, ebay/paypal always side with the buyer. I have had this happen to me twice already 1 for an asic miner card back when it was going for $4000, and another for an avalon.

I have been selling on ebay for over 15 years and know every trick in the book, but there is nothing you can do if you want to sell, just rolling the dice. Both scammers had high feedback rating and looked very legit, they just break something on the miner after a month like bending some metal or cooling fan wires, take a photo and file for claim or direct chargeback within 45 days. They then change their ebay id after a month or so, and since ebay doesn't allow you to search their id history (without knowing their new id) nor leave anything but positive feedbacks as seller, they cannot be blacklisted, and move on to the next victim with their perfect feedback.

There is nothing you can do but take the loss,  that's why i have stopped selling on ebay altogether.  

So make sure you factor that into your calculation the expectation of losing at least 1 miner out of that 6.  In addition to the risk of paypal limiting your account that will take months to get your money out (if it is under your name, if it's a stealth account kiss your money good bye), nothing gets your paypal account limited faster than selling multiple bitcoin hardware / casascius coins that's above $500.  Add insult, they take 10% in final value fee for everything you sell.

just saying...

Good points.
Don't use Paypal: I sold 3 Jupiters on Ebay so far in 2 seperate transactions (2 before Christmas and one 3 days ago and all went smooth).
But I always opt for cash on delivery. The 1st guy was from the Czech Republic who drove all the way to London to pick up 2 of them, while bringing £18500 in cash.
The 2nd was a local indian guy

And btw Ebay take 10% up to £75, which is reasonable when you make a sale for thousands of pounds.