Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[soy]

The controller cards are FPGA cards with BBB mounted?  Power hungry 228MHs FPGA zTex cards are getting retired now from Bitcoin mining.  Perhaps a programming wiz could find a way to use an FPGA zTex card in conjunction with a BBB to run modules.

[kendog77]

I'm interested in seeing how Knc will manage to cool a ~3000W Neptune beast.

Jupiter heatsinks are very large, and they are only able to cool ~300W each. Obviously, there is not enough room for 10 Jupiter type heatsinks in a Neptune unless the case is twice as large.

[DimensionsOfHell]

so final yes or no
for the upgraded module?
will be for november only jupiter?

I'm curious about the upgrade module as well.  I understand the Nov Jupiters have the yellow tagged VRMs and take different programming than the Oct. Jupiters/Saturns/Mercurys.  In such a case if the upgrade modules are for the November Jupiters then if one has a Saturn one might buy 4 or 6 modules and pull the Oct cards to resell so all 4 or 6 are running the same programming.

I am curious about this as well. Hey 'Orama, would you say its possible to replace the Oct modules with Nov modules and just reflash the E firmware?

Also, can you tell us at least which modules will be sold? Oct/Nov/Both?

[arlekyn13]

so final yes or no
for the upgraded module?
will be for november only jupiter?

I'm curious about the upgrade module as well.  I understand the Nov Jupiters have the yellow tagged VRMs and take different programming than the Oct. Jupiters/Saturns/Mercurys.  In such a case if the upgrade modules are for the November Jupiters then if one has a Saturn one might buy 4 or 6 modules and pull the Oct cards to resell so all 4 or 6 are running the same programming.

I am curious about this as well. Hey 'Orama, would you say its possible to replace the Oct modules with Nov modules and just reflash the E firmware?

Also, can you tell us at least which modules will be sold? Oct/Nov/Both?

I can answer your 1st question: yes, it is possible as long as you don't mix them on the same controller board. Keep in mind that Nov type will need more power than Oct ones, for a Nov Jupiter a 1200W PSU was recommended if I remember right.
Also interested about what type of modules will be sold

[eiliant]

Orama, any word on whether hosting will be provided?

[soy]

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week.

So February is the more likely if at all?

[Tehfiend]

I'm not sure we will be selling upgrade modules as close as a week. My previous comment regarding Jupiter sales was accurate at that point in time. Sam had mentioned frequently to people in Vegas prior to Christmas we were going to be opening for sale. Those in attendance there that spoke to him will vouch for this. I only just set foot back in Stockholm this week, I was hoping to have positive news on that front for you. There is however an immediate problem in the supply chain sourcing certain components, which due to the current competitive landscape would not be wise to dwell further upon, other than we are obviously looking at means to overcome this. It is however likely now to be upgrade modules, and not complete units. Understand that may be disappointing for some, but that's all I have to share currently and it's not something I've had prior knowledge of. Will let you know more as, and when. If you want to spend your cash elsewhere we're not stopping you, but I'm not going to sugar-coat the situation in the hope we can open for orders immediately, just giving you a realistic overview of the situation.

With respect to Neptune we are where we intended to be at this stage and are still contemplating aspects of the design. Understand that the approach is not the same as that of Jupiter. 28nm was extremely disruptive at the time, of which the effect can plainly be seen. Hashrate was given priority to power consumption, and safety and speed to market even more so, but going forward and acknowledging that power consumption becomes more a critical factor the Neptune has to be created as more a long term solution. We will not skimp or rush the design here. This does not mean I'm indirectly verbalising a delay, so don't go looking for hidden meanings, there aren't any to find, just rest assured I'm stressing we value the integrity of the design more which is why Q1/Q2 was given to ensure that margin is present so we commit the best foot going forward in what is uncharted waters within bleeding edge silicon. We're not rushing the design at the cost of it's ability to function, and function well. The sha-256 implementation is actually relatively simple, but there is still quite a bit we can optimise to remain competitive for you and us.

With respect to casing design, that only takes approx. 3 days, the inclusion of space for PSUs has been passed on and acknowledged, and is being considered. Such design does obviously affect shipping costs that are dictated by dimensional sizing and weight, but you will need to source PSUs your side. This is not an oversight on our part, but the regulations for importing products with power supplies varies significantly country to country to the extent by which entry of electronic goods that have not met the prior approval of specific countries. If you have been on this forum long enough you would be well aware of the complications and denial that some have experienced, as such we will not provide an internal PSU so as not to limit access to those customers. Keep it simple and ensure everyone has a fair chance of receiving their items. Power supplies are easily available internally anyway. It worked well for Jupiter so we're sticking to that.

Thanks for the honest update Bitcoinorama. Since it sounds like KNC is no longer focused on speed to market I will most likely be dumping my Neptune pre-order as I'm not in the business of financing their next gen miner at a BTC loss which this is starting to look like from my POV. I think it's pretty safe to say Q1 delivery is now completely out of the question and a May/June delivery is quite possible so I will probably be better off buying back my BTC directly unless the difficulty acceleration magically flat-lines. I really appreciate that you are upfront about their goals instead of sugar coating things and misleading us to expect a possible Q1 delivery, many kudos to KNC.

I think before I pull the plug I will redo all of my forecast calculations one more time and see what a day 1 Neptune pre-order is selling for ATM...

[Biodom]

I am a newbie here, but it seems that restrictions have been lifted. I have 2 Neptunes on preorder. I was thinking to run them off the dryer 240V socket, but "family" is adamantly against it, hence I would be able to barely run just one.

Bottom line: is anybody interested in ONE public batch #1 Neptune preorder (154##)? Please PM me if interested, but be reasonable as I don't have to sell. I will only deal in BTC. As of now, batch#2 is gone as well (for the second and, probably, last time).

[soy]

I too am frustrated by not right now having new KnC gear hashing.  Thing is I look at my Neptune pre-order and look at the present relative superiority of Jupiters over the competition and the Jupiter profitability track record, and I expect the Neptune will have a similar relationship to the competition when it fields.  

That's not to say all of us might not get screwed, KnC machine owners somewhat less than others.  Screwed if dark horse mining farms get super cheap gear of their own manufacture in an overwhelming way.

So, what would be the alternative?  Leave mining and buy btc for its appreciation?  We know the banks aren't going to quit scamming the general public with currency expansion.  We know peace isn't going to reign on into the far foreseeable future, Syria and the Sudan not withstanding, and that would mean money movement into Bitcoin.  Some questions are: a) how long do we have to wait for KnC gear, b) will all the KnC gear made available be sold to pre-existing customers or will the numbers of miners be such that it will be open to the general public.  Like those dark horse mining farms turning their btc into Neptune purchases, c) how bad will the network hashrate get and how soon?

[dimaze]

Neptunes all gone now - again.

[greenbtc]

I too am frustrated by not right now having new KnC gear hashing.  Thing is I look at my Neptune pre-order and look at the present relative superiority of Jupiters over the competition and the Jupiter profitability track record, and I expect the Neptune will have a similar relationship to the competition when it fields.  

That's not to say all of us might not get screwed, KnC machine owners somewhat less than others.  Screwed if dark horse mining farms get super cheap gear of their own manufacture in an overwhelming way.

So, what would be the alternative?  Leave mining and buy btc for its appreciation?  We know the banks aren't going to quit scamming the general public with currency expansion.  We know peace isn't going to reign on into the far foreseeable future, Syria and the Sudan not withstanding, and that would mean money movement into Bitcoin.  Some questions are: a) how long do we have to wait for KnC gear, b) will all the KnC gear made available be sold to pre-existing customers or will the numbers of miners be such that it will be open to the general public.  Like those dark horse mining farms turning their btc into Neptune purchases, c) how bad will the network hashrate get and how soon?

Lots of speculation in here!

[kendog77]

By my estimation, Knc has around two months to start delivering Neptunes before folks that pre-ordered start losing BTC.

Antminers can be purchased right now, and ship immediately, for around $9 per GH. Neptunes sold for between $3 and $4 per GH. Once the difficulty triples, which will occur in around 2 months, Knc Neptune preorder pricing should be close to the price of hardware that ships immediately.

Power efficiency will make the Neptune more valuable than less efficient hardware, but not significantly more valuable.

I'm also a bit discouraged by what what seems to be a Knc shift from minimizing time to market to aiming for a more "perfect" design.

Bitcoinorama also said that Knc was meeting it's internal schedule, but Knc hasn't really announced what their internal schedule is beyond providing a 6 month Q1/Q2 delivery window, which is an eternity in Bitcoinland!

The clock is ticking...

[timmmers]

I don't see why I can order a boxed PSU from just about anywhere and have no problem with customs, yet people are reluctant to include them that way with rigs? KNC could simply buy in bulk (as they did for the hosted rigs and their own) and get a bulk discount and chuck them in the box. AFAIK no power supplies are manufactured in Sweden and the ones we've all got now got past customs with no problems so why would including a brand new 3rd party PSU to run each rig be a problem? One that isn't certified and loose in the box would be, a bulk bought 3rd party PSU would just be another item sold which happens every day worldwide.
That way they would be sure everyone had the PSU most suitable and avoid issues and returns?

[RickJamesBTC]

They are heavy as hell to ship, and shipping costs money.  I don't want them to include power supplies, I've got plenty of them already. Why spend more on something you can easily change.

[padrino]

I don't see why I can order a boxed PSU from just about anywhere and have no problem with customs, yet people are reluctant to include them that way with rigs? KNC could simply buy in bulk (as they did for the hosted rigs and their own) and get a bulk discount and chuck them in the box. AFAIK no power supplies are manufactured in Sweden and the ones we've all got now got past customs with no problems so why would including a brand new 3rd party PSU to run each rig be a problem? One that isn't certified and loose in the box would be, a bulk bought 3rd party PSU would just be another item sold which happens every day worldwide.
That way they would be sure everyone had the PSU most suitable and avoid issues and returns?

Did you not read the earlier statements, it's not about YOUR experience, rather some customers in countries that have more of an issue importing full systems. Given how easy it seems to be for you why are you sweating it anyway? It's been discussed before so I am not going to reiterate, for a little insight look back maybe a page or so for mention of one specific country...

[RickJamesBTC]

They are heavy as hell to ship, and shipping costs money.  I don't want them to include power supplies, I've got plenty of them already. Why spend more on something you can easily change.

Difference between 10 kilo or 15 kilo is not much on shipping cost at all.
You mostly pay more on the size of the box you are shipping.

I ship hundreds of packages a week, including a lot of international. Weight matters.

[soy]

Interesting ringing effect:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

[JimmyJams]

I too am frustrated by not right now having new KnC gear hashing.  Thing is I look at my Neptune pre-order and look at the present relative superiority of Jupiters over the competition and the Jupiter profitability track record, and I expect the Neptune will have a similar relationship to the competition when it fields.  

That's not to say all of us might not get screwed, KnC machine owners somewhat less than others.  Screwed if dark horse mining farms get super cheap gear of their own manufacture in an overwhelming way.

So, what would be the alternative?  Leave mining and buy btc for its appreciation?  We know the banks aren't going to quit scamming the general public with currency expansion.  We know peace isn't going to reign on into the far foreseeable future, Syria and the Sudan not withstanding, and that would mean money movement into Bitcoin.  Some questions are: a) how long do we have to wait for KnC gear, b) will all the KnC gear made available be sold to pre-existing customers or will the numbers of miners be such that it will be open to the general public.  Like those dark horse mining farms turning their btc into Neptune purchases, c) how bad will the network hashrate get and how soon?

Sorry but KNC miners gear is vastly inefficient compared to some other devices out there. A good 28nm chip design should take anywhere from 1-2 years not 7-8 months. But as Bitcointalk is mostly a marketing forum the idea of having the first 28nm is was better than actually having an efficient well designed machine.

Also, I very much doubt KNC will be hosting in the future as there previous design in terms of thermodynamics etc. was woefully lacking, thats why there were delays for the hosted miners.

[Paladin69]

damnit knc, why did you have to remove ports 5 & 6 from the Nov Jups.  

Some of the Oct Jupiters were shipped with only 4 ports as well. Not really fair for those that planned to upgrade them.

$2 in parts, a little soldering skills....

No soldering skills here, but can you link me to the parts?

+1 on that request.

I solder.  It is not a simple as it sounds.  The odds are higher that you'll make your controller board non-functional than succeed in adding sockets - unless you are an experienced technician with a lot of soldering time.  Get an old motherboard, remove a connector with .1" spacing between the pins even if it has many more pins than the socket  you wish to add to the controller board.  Try putting  one of those sockets into the motherboard.  You'll see it's more difficult than you expect.  Anyone who would tell a novice to try such a thing to a controller board is looking to reduce the net hashrate by killing your machine.

Saying "I solder" is like saying "I Drive"  you can be good at it or bad.

With a $10 desoldering pump and a decent iron this is (on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being surface mount technology)  a 3 at the worst.
Its 10 huge holes that need to be cleared and a socket installed.

If the thread weren't 1430 pages, I'd find the post with photos of a user who 'successfully' accomplished the feat.

I remember that photo, it was a scary job done by someone who did NOT know how to solder.
He didnt clear the holes first

How do you "clear" the holes?  Apparently he couldn't heat them hot enough.

Thanks for the ebay link earlier btw.

[squish]

Since it sounds like KNC is no longer focused on speed to market I will most likely be dumping my Neptune pre-order as I'm not in the business of financing their next gen miner at a BTC loss which this is starting to look like from my POV. I think it's pretty safe to say Q1 delivery is now completely out of the question and a May/June delivery is quite possible so I will probably be better off buying back my BTC directly unless the difficulty acceleration magically flat-lines.

I feel the same way.  Right now I can get 14.6 bitcoins for my Neptune order if I refund ($12174 inc VAT / $830), and bitcoinwisdom says if it is delivered on April 1st with a 25% increase each time (no pool fees, no electricity costs) it will recover about 13.2 bitcoins.

I think i'll wait another two adjustments and then make a decision.  If the price of bitcoin goes down it'll be a no-brainer to refund and buy BTC directly.