Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Lambie Slayer]

https://www.atr.org/biden-capital-gains-tax-we-should-raise-tax-back-396-percent?amp

Biden made the remarks on Wednesday, August 21 during an interview with Iowa Public Television:

“I believe we should, in fact, the capital gains tax should be at what the highest minimum tax should be, we should raise the tax back to 39.6 percent instead of 20 percent,”

"Households subject to Obamacare’s 3.8 percent Net Income Investment Tax end up paying a 23.8% rate. And under Biden’s cap gains scheme, such households will face a 43.4 percent rate."

I dont think anyone brought this up yet on WO, and the media has hardly discussed it, but this is some serious shit if you are an American Bitcoiner like me. This would seriously affect my wealth when I cash out coins at key numbers like 100k and 1 million.  Trump is "no fan of Bitcoin", but holy shit, at least he would never double my tax rate.

My future ex Tulsi is out of the upcoming debate so Yang is the next best (ultra slim) hope for a true Crypto friendly candidate. Any tax crazy lefty gets nominated and Im team Trump. Mayor Pete I would predict is unlikely to make a major tax hike so he wouldnt be to bad for a dem nominee. Luckily after watching most of Grandpa Joe's interviews and debates I can confidently say that he has early dementia setting in fast and his brain would turn to mush in a grueling election. Hillary's past stumbling and feinting on the election trail looks competent to what Joe is starting to manifest.

TLDR: Fuck Grandpa Joe.

Bitcoin is the true candidate for 2020, everyone else is a pretender.

[Syke]

Hodlllllllllllllll / StrongHats

I need something a little more...substantial to HODL on to.

[SuperTA]

https://www.atr.org/biden-capital-gains-tax-we-should-raise-tax-back-396-percent?amp

Biden made the remarks on Wednesday, August 21 during an interview with Iowa Public Television:

“I believe we should, in fact, the capital gains tax should be at what the highest minimum tax should be, we should raise the tax back to 39.6 percent instead of 20 percent,”

"Households subject to Obamacare’s 3.8 percent Net Income Investment Tax end up paying a 23.8% rate. And under Biden’s cap gains scheme, such households will face a 43.4 percent rate."

I dont think anyone brought this up yet on WO, and the media has hardly discussed it, but this is some serious shit if you are an American Bitcoiner like me. This would seriously affect my wealth when I cash out coins at key numbers like 100k and 1 million.  Trump is "no fan of Bitcoin", but holy shit, at least he would never double my tax rate.

My future ex Tulsi is out of the upcoming debate so Yang is the next best (ultra slim) hope for a true Crypto friendly candidate. Any tax crazy lefty gets nominated and Im team Trump. Mayor Pete I would predict is unlikely to make a major tax hike so he wouldnt be to bad for a dem nominee. Luckily after watching most of Grandpa Joe's interviews and debates I can confidently say that he has early dementia setting in fast and his brain would turn to mush in a grueling election. Hillary's past stumbling and feinting on the election trail looks competent to what Joe is starting to manifest.

TLDR: Fuck Grandpa Joe.

Bitcoin is the true candidate for 2020, everyone else is a pretender.

There are many countries you could move your residence adress to. We gave you a list of alternative countries with no tax and many commented about their country tax situation. So if you have 1 million, there shouldn't be a big problem for you.

[SuperTA]

There is a higher probability that bitcoin will outperform gold in the next crisis. This chart shows you gold price vs gold production from 1900 to 2019. In the previous financial crisis the gold production started to decline and demand for gold started to go higher so there was a shortage for gold in this period. In that time gold went up in price. Today the gold production is at the higher level. We can still expect the growth of gold in the next financial crisis but bitcoin will be the one who's in a shortage of supply. Bitcoin was made after 2008 financial crisis and may become the new digital gold. The Picture is from Mark De Mesel.

[Cryptotourist]

Hodlllllllllllllll / StrongHats

I need something a little more...substantial to HODL on to.

Just hodl BTC there buddy.
You have to look at it from another perspective:

[Lambie Slayer]

https://www.atr.org/biden-capital-gains-tax-we-should-raise-tax-back-396-percent?amp

Biden made the remarks on Wednesday, August 21 during an interview with Iowa Public Television:

“I believe we should, in fact, the capital gains tax should be at what the highest minimum tax should be, we should raise the tax back to 39.6 percent instead of 20 percent,”

"Households subject to Obamacare’s 3.8 percent Net Income Investment Tax end up paying a 23.8% rate. And under Biden’s cap gains scheme, such households will face a 43.4 percent rate."

I dont think anyone brought this up yet on WO, and the media has hardly discussed it, but this is some serious shit if you are an American Bitcoiner like me. This would seriously affect my wealth when I cash out coins at key numbers like 100k and 1 million.  Trump is "no fan of Bitcoin", but holy shit, at least he would never double my tax rate.

My future ex Tulsi is out of the upcoming debate so Yang is the next best (ultra slim) hope for a true Crypto friendly candidate. Any tax crazy lefty gets nominated and Im team Trump. Mayor Pete I would predict is unlikely to make a major tax hike so he wouldnt be to bad for a dem nominee. Luckily after watching most of Grandpa Joe's interviews and debates I can confidently say that he has early dementia setting in fast and his brain would turn to mush in a grueling election. Hillary's past stumbling and feinting on the election trail looks competent to what Joe is starting to manifest.

TLDR: Fuck Grandpa Joe.

Bitcoin is the true candidate for 2020, everyone else is a pretender.

There are many countries you could move your residence adress to. We gave you a list of alternative countries with no tax and many commented about their country tax situation. So if you have 1 million, there shouldn't be a big problem for you.

Yeah no big problem, I can pickup a new language and build a new life for myself in just a week or two. Thanks buddy, what was I thinking  .....

Yes, actually moving to another country is a big problem for me. Not to mention the second you give up your American citizenship you are responsible for paying the full capital gains tax on property you are taking with you, whether you sell it or not. This would incur a huge tax on me for my Bitcoins, the vast majority I have been holding for 5 years. I would be forced to sell a large chunk of my coins prematurely as I moved to pay taxes. Also I have no interest in leaving and would much rather stay in the US for many reasons I wont get into, most of which are obvious to anyone who doesnt just make a habit of moving away to a foreign land. 

Grandpa Joe is not running me out of America bc he wants to raise my taxes. We will defeat Grandpa Joe and send him to the nursing home where he belongs.

[HairyMaclairy]

Making the CGT rate the same as the top marginal rate is just stupid.

People claiming CGT by definition (a) are retail punters, (b) do not claim investment losses.

If you make the CGT rate the same as the top marginal rate, no one will claim CGT and everyone will just classify it as trading income, making their investment losses deductible.

Retail investors are dumb as a stick, therefore they lose more than they put in.  

If retail suddenly start deducting 100% of their tax losses, this would result in a net tax expenditure.

Putting the CGT threshold up would reduce government tax revenue in net terms, accordingly will never happen

Tell Joe he is dreaming

[HairyMaclairy]

Yeah no big problem, I can pickup a new language and build a new life for myself in just a week or two. Thanks buddy, what was I thinking

That’s pussyfoot talk.  If you aren’t agile, you are a sitting duck. 

[gallianooo]

KEEP SIMPLE.

More and more in a vise now.

Soon huge impulsion for new high, or more down ! 

[Lambie Slayer]

Yeah no big problem, I can pickup a new language and build a new life for myself in just a week or two. Thanks buddy, what was I thinking

That’s pussyfoot talk.  If you aren’t agile, you are a sitting duck. 

Meh to me it would be pussyfooting to leave your home and people behind bc some gibbering dementia patient is trying to steal your money. I understand the agile sentiment, and I could move to another country with ease, but I dont typically look to run from problems anyway. Also some of the countries on that list look to be a few regulatory clarifications away from taxing crypto, PR is not a country and as Jbreher said not tax free for Crypto, and Liberland is a joke.

Hopefully Republicans maintain control of at least one branch and this doubling of cap gains never happens. If it does happen I would sell all coins and realize profits, pay taxes, then buy most of the coins back at a new cost basis before the law went into effect. This would alleviate a lot of the problem, then Id have to consider my options.

[Lambie Slayer]

Making the CGT rate the same as the top marginal rate is just stupid.

People claiming CGT by definition (a) are retail punters, (b) do not claim investment losses.

If you make the CGT rate the same as the top marginal rate, no one will claim CGT and everyone will just classify it as trading income, making their investment losses deductible.

Retail investors are dumb as a stick, therefore they lose more than they put in.  

If retail suddenly start deducting 100% of their tax losses, this would result in a net tax expenditure.

Putting the CGT threshold up would reduce government tax revenue in net terms, accordingly will never happen

Tell Joe he is dreaming

I think you are conflating retail investors with retail traders. Retail traders yes lose more than they put in and imo even most of the dumbest ones are using software or tax preparers who deduct losses from gains so they pay no income tax on their trading losses.

Retail investors represent the majority of investors, active traders are a minority. The retail investors are afaik (retired people and workers saving for retirement, etc)  mostly making more than they lose.  

Capital losses are deductible just like trading losses are deductible. Trading losses are a form of capital loss and trading gains are a form of capital gain and just taxed under short term cap gains rates which are the same as normal income tax rates. Joe wants to make short and long term rates all the same max rate so there would be no more distinguishing between long and short term rates and trading income would be a moot point. Joe would effectively be raising the rate of taxes on short term traders and long term hodlers.

But yes, I agree he is dreaming.

[Lambie Slayer]

https://www.atr.org/biden-capital-gains-tax-we-should-raise-tax-back-396-percent?amp

Biden made the remarks on Wednesday, August 21 during an interview with Iowa Public Television:

“I believe we should, in fact, the capital gains tax should be at what the highest minimum tax should be, we should raise the tax back to 39.6 percent instead of 20 percent,”

"Households subject to Obamacare’s 3.8 percent Net Income Investment Tax end up paying a 23.8% rate. And under Biden’s cap gains scheme, such households will face a 43.4 percent rate."

I dont think anyone brought this up yet on WO, and the media has hardly discussed it, but this is some serious shit if you are an American Bitcoiner like me. This would seriously affect my wealth when I cash out coins at key numbers like 100k and 1 million.  Trump is "no fan of Bitcoin", but holy shit, at least he would never double my tax rate.

My future ex Tulsi is out of the upcoming debate so Yang is the next best (ultra slim) hope for a true Crypto friendly candidate. Any tax crazy lefty gets nominated and Im team Trump. Mayor Pete I would predict is unlikely to make a major tax hike so he wouldnt be to bad for a dem nominee. Luckily after watching most of Grandpa Joe's interviews and debates I can confidently say that he has early dementia setting in fast and his brain would turn to mush in a grueling election. Hillary's past stumbling and feinting on the election trail looks competent to what Joe is starting to manifest.

TLDR: Fuck Grandpa Joe.

Bitcoin is the true candidate for 2020, everyone else is a pretender.

There are many countries you could move your residence adress to. We gave you a list of alternative countries with no tax and many commented about their country tax situation. So if you have 1 million, there shouldn't be a big problem for you.

Yeah no big problem, I can pickup a new language and build a new life for myself in just a week or two. Thanks buddy, what was I thinking   .....

Nobody said to move out from your country, buddy. I said you can move your residence address.

Wait so just stay in the US and tell the gov I live in another country and Uncle Sam wont be receiving any monies. Thats a one way ticket to Federal Prison my friend. No thank you.

[SuperTA]

My residence is in one country but i'm most of the time traveling. If you speak english you can communicate in many places around the world.

[bkbirge]

The fallacy with Biden's statement to his base is that the assumption is that only (or mostly) rich people invest. There is a large amount of the middle class that realize between the looming social security/medicaire bankruptcy and the lack of any sort of pension from the workplace that the only way to have a chance at surviving into retirement we need to invest. Taxing those people at max capital gains destroys their futures.

But Biden still lives in the past where there were strong unions and pensions and a large part of the dem base is very young and haven't figured out yet how screwed they are about their later years (or are just completely hopeless about them and aren't even planning).

Caught between the GOP gutting social security and medicaire, and the DNC wanting to tax the rich with ill thought plans that effect everyone, the middle class is getting squeezed as usual from both parties. The poor are pretty much the same as always, poor.

[d_eddie]

Indeed the middle class has a hard time finding some inspired leader to voice their issues. That's not only the USA, as far as I know (admittedly not that far).

By the way, I just caught up, with unsuitable equipment and a spotty connection! I had to skip some, or fly over the longest posts (nothing personal, amigo).

[gembitz]

sex is pumping!     Lol!!

[STT]

There is a higher probability that bitcoin will outperform gold in the next crisis.

Its a fair point, BTC does have this dynamic and it creates sharp rises that will not occur (as much) with conventional commodities.    The reply from the mainstream will be the source of crypto is infinite and there is no unique element BTC has and so greater demand will produce greater supply from the ability to create alt coins and tokens.  
  In fact we did really see this on the last big rally, we had the demand and an incredible surge of ICO I saw from many different sectors not related to crypto normally.    In a way that was quite natural and of course everyone does it for a profit but thats fine as that is an open market and it fell back as growth was not delivered in the main unfortunately or at least immediate returns were not there, I hope some of those projects succeed at least.

   So that infinite variety of crypto already happened under demand and we seem to continue to have demand and the main choice of BTC is increasing its market dominance.   I dont think its going to be so simple as BTC must now be the only choice, I still think the market demands innovation for success and BTC has to be as easy to use as a remote control if you want a wider section of the population to use it.   Whatever criticism gold has, its as simple as pie what it is and how it will proceed and I have no doubt there is demand there for it to rise over decades as a monetary standard relative to failed FIAT standards.


BTC still bullish above the last low 9755 but I've not had a positive outlook since we left the April uptrend.   50 day MA caps the upside


RE:  supply and demand, central banks 'giving away' money I think is unbelievable but so are many things true now beyond imagination a few years ago.   Pretty sure I dont disagree with this guy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBXjlNNNFus

[Biodom]

Things are becoming more and more chaotic.
My preference would be for flat equities and for bitcoin to appreciate against this background.
It does not look this way at the moment.
Dow is actually below its Jan 22, 2018 value, some bull market we have. Oh, well.

I am still of the opinion that bitcoin needs at least a flat market to grow.
If stocks would get seriously smashed, btc would decline as well, at least initially.

Carney's libra-like ideas are meaningless without multiple major countries backing it and I don't see anyone even acknowledging it (so far).

You are surely coming off as a weak hand, Biodom.... like you are easily scared into doing something crazy, like selling on the way down (or worse at the bottom)...    

you are projecting...I am hodling btc, selling a bit of equities (including GLD, which was just a profitable trade).
I will sell some, though, if Biden would look like winning. I paid 39.6 % before during a good year in the internet "bubble" and it was brutal.

Some people don't know these facts, but for US citizens there are two-three relevant rules:
1. If you have capital gains, you pay 15-20% for long term (more than 12 mo) plus additional 3.8% (NIIT) on gains when you have above 200K AGI and up to maximum rate (37%) for short term trades. Biden suggests that we should pay up to max tax on ALL trades, long or short. Maximum is 37% plus, maybe 3.8=40.8%.
2. It does not matter where your address is, as US citizen, you are still responsible for these taxes. The only exception is Puerto-Rico, but you have to actually LIVE there 183 days each year.
3. The way they truly get you is by taxing gains, but allowing only $3000 per year in losses. This way, you could be in a situation where you pay large gains one year, but are allowed only limited recourse (3K) when you have a large loss. I find this very unfair.

[Torque]

3. The way they truly get you is by taxing gains, but allowing only $3000 per year in losses. This way, you could be in a situation where you pay large gains one year, but are allowed only limited recourse (3K) when you have a large loss. I find this very unfair.

Yes, but any losses that exceed $3K you can roll over YoY.

[THX 1138]

Relaying response:

There is a higher probability that bitcoin will outperform gold in the next crisis.

Its a fair point, BTC does have this dynamic and it creates sharp rises that will not occur (as much) with conventional commodities.

Unfortunately not. Well the legacy Bitcoin will, but we will likely be stripped of our ability to cash out of it. Legacy Bitcoin will only be legal to cash out for those are loyal to the globalist, bankster bastards.

You guys ostensibly don’t understand what is really going on in terms of the Big Picture:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157901.msg52251343#msg52251343

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5147618.msg52247973#msg52247973
(read also my follow-up post, where I make a price and timing prediction from now to May 2020)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5157964.0

The May 2020 halving event is likely when the diehard Bitcoin maximalists get (according to one Goldman former Treasury official) “their fingertips burned up to their armpits” aka fleeced. After a nosebleed ATH before the halving, Core Bitcoin may crash to below $1000 and the blockchain may slow to one block per week.

Again note I am not a BSV-shill. BSV is likely a decoy employed by Craig to obscure that he is really reinstating legacy, immutable Bitcoin.