MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[BitCoinNutJob]

Thank you James very big of you to share & take the time to post over here aswell, im in UK also so may test out your SEPA method.

Cheers!

[sturle]

Page 50 of this thread iirc..

I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given.

It was given as "today" in the citation from "yesterday" in a post from August 21st.  Via some clever mathematics or a calendar, we can calculate the exact date to August 20th.  No date was given for the time of withdrawal.  This example only shows that USD withdrawals go through as well, even quite large ones, just very very slowly.  The official number is 10 transfers per day until they either manage to either find a bank willing to do their number of wires per day, or another method to serve all the small withdrawals.  International wire isn't well suited for that.  A licence to transmit money in the USSA (the main problem) will probably solve the problem as well.

[qxzn]

I just don't want to be there when the bitfloor scenario goes down again so i pulled out all my money this morning and sold on bitstamp. Fuck this.

OM NOM thank you panic sellers for your healthy haircuts lining my pockets . Wish I had more fiat already in place at bitstamp to om nom some more!

[ardana123]

I just don't want to be there when the bitfloor scenario goes down again so i pulled out all my money this morning and sold on bitstamp. Fuck this.

OM NOM thank you panic sellers for your healthy haircuts lining my pockets . Wish I had more fiat already in place at bitstamp to om nom some more!

lining your pockets with what i consider pocket change funny guy

[sturle]

Page 50 of this thread iirc..

I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given.

It was given as "today" in the citation from "yesterday" in a post from August 21st.  Via some clever mathematics or a calendar, we can calculate the exact date to August 20th.  No date was given for the time of withdrawal.   A licence to transmit money in the USSA (the main problem) will probably solve the problem as well.

A USD withdraw processed any time after July is impossible, i'd like to see you confirm that date.

August 20th 2013.  There are many conformations of USD withdrawals after July.  Why do you think it is impossible to wire money to the USSA after July?  When I buy bitcoins from people in the USSA, I send the money through a bank.  This is OK, because banks are licensed money transmitters.

Karpeles has been lying since March 28th about compliance.  The post below was 10 days after FinCEN guidance.  Registering an MSB is very easy, and he couldn't even take the time to do that.  Money transmitter licenses in all 50 states is difficult to attain in under a year, and is very expensive.

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

In Japan we discussed with the FSA ( http://www.fsa.go.jp/ ) and were told that our activity is fine as it is now. We are also working with authorities in Europe and US to ensure our activity is in line with local regulations.

Bullshit.

Why do you think this is bullshit?  They had done a few changes by then, on request from regulators.  Changes regarding AML requirements and discontinuation of redeemable codes (another popular withdrawal method I had forgotten about).  I assume this means they had actually talked to them.  This DHS seizure due to money transmitting is a bit far fetched at best.  MtGox were using Dwolla and banks as money transmitters in the USSA, and their only mistake was to use an account owned by a different company ad an intermediate when transferring funds to and from Dwolla.  This other company, Mutum Sigillum, were acting as money transmitter between MtGox and Dwolla.  This is IMHO a detail which is easy to overlook, and the DHS certainly overreacted.

Oh and problems with banks?  Seems to be a persistent excuse from Karpeles. 

We are currently experiencing delays on EUR transfers of up to two weeks for larger transfers because of the daily limits imposed by our bank in Europe. We are currently negotiating larger limits with this bank and hope to be able to finally be back to regular delays by April.

Wow, those are some really long negotiations.  Must be the incompetence of a large multinational bank right?  Definitely not Mt.Gox.

It is a smallish bank in Poland.  The large multinational banks in Europe don't want to have anything to do with Bitcoin.  They are working on getting more, but this takes time.  It is important to MtGox he new bank understand what they are doing.  MtGox do not want to risk to have their new bank account closed or restricted.

[BitCoinNutJob]

let me get this straight zeroblock is now doubting the troubles of setting up banking connections with bitcoin business?  what a troll.

check out buttercoin's troubles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTnHWGjdj8

check out the troubles of a guy who was trying to set up a UK bitcoin exchange

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30/business-finance-investing/bitcoins-digital-currency-1011408/index509.html#post39813329

I dont know how exactly bitstamp are able to provide fast withdraws but its probably "dodgy"..... & BTC-e dont need any verification details, wouldn't be surprised if US customers are blocked from these 2 sites within months.

You have all the facts & no idea how to process them zeroblock.

[sturle]

let me get this straight zeroblock is now doubting the troubles of setting up banking connections with bitcoin business?  what a troll.

check out buttercoin's troubles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTnHWGjdj8

check out the troubles of a guy who was trying to set up a UK bitcoin exchange

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30/business-finance-investing/bitcoins-digital-currency-1011408/index509.html#post39813329

Don't forget when MtGox lost it's first bank in France.  In the case that followed MtGox won a very important victory for Bitcoin in Europe: Bitcoin isn't an e-currency.  If it was, it would be strongly regulated.  Fortunately no money were lost, but MtGox had to find another bank.  This wasn't easy.

Intersango have had their share of problems as well.  They got their accounts in the UK closed.  I don't know if Intersango got their money back yet, or even a list of the most recent deposits.  Intersango found a new bank in Poland, which is the same bank MtGox is using after getting a tip from Intersango.  One thing is certain: There are not many Bitcoin friendly banks around.

[ardana123]

It's a real problem, the conversion from fiat to bitcoin and vice versa. In the near future we will have few banks willing to deal with bitcoin anymore...

[bernard75]

This is just like Prism. Suddenly everybody is saying "I knew it!".

[Nagle]

let me get this straight zeroblock is now doubting the troubles of setting up banking connections with bitcoin business?  what a troll.

That's because everybody who's tried to do a "Bitcoin exchange" has tried to claim they're something they aren't, or aren't something they are. That comes apart when you're moving millions of dollars a week. Or have millions of dollars in customer funds on deposit. "Money transfer" firms don't usually hold customer balances, except briefly while funds are in transit.

Probably the way to go at this is to become a broker/dealer. That requires capital, insurance, audits, and is heavily regulated. For good reason - a broker is well positioned to steal customer funds. But once you're a broker/dealer, you can sign up customers and trade for them and with them in any tradeable commodity, from soybeans to Bitcoins.

Mt. Gox is in trouble because they got big without growing up. 

[Zarathustra]

In Japan we discussed with the FSA ( http://www.fsa.go.jp/ ) and were told that our activity is fine as it is now. We are also working with authorities in Europe and US to ensure our activity is in line with local regulations.

Bullshit.

Oh and problems with banks?  Seems to be a persistent excuse from Karpeles.  

We are currently experiencing delays on EUR transfers of up to two weeks for larger transfers because of the daily limits imposed by our bank in Europe. We are currently negotiating larger limits with this bank and hope to be able to finally be back to regular delays by April.

Wow, those are some really long negotiations.  Must be the incompetence of a large multinational bank right?  Definitely not Mt.Gox.

Yes, others (Bitcoin.de / Bitstamp) are able to negotiate with banks. Gox is not.
Check the 'actual' 'informations' on the website of this company, the 'news feed' and the support page and you know immediately what kind of business they are doing. The information policy is clearly misleading the old and potential new customers as well and therefore criminal.
Nevertheless, the pawlow'ian zombies here are not only defending this criminal behavior, they are pushing it. Very bad for bitcoin.
A currency with such friends doesn't need enemies.

[bernard75]

bitcoin.de? they just recentlly signed a cooperation deal with a bank.
not that i would trade there, but there is no need to hide that gox is incompetent.

[sturle]

Yes, others (Bitcoin.de / Bitstamp) are able to negotiate with banks. Gox is not.

Bitcoin.de does not handle fiat.  It is more similar to Localbitcoins than MtGox.

Bitstamp can not have been entirely honest with their bank, since some of what they are doing is illegal.  Bitstamp has put all their eggs in one basket.  Any problems with that bank, and their customers will be quite deep in it..

MtGox are negotiating with the same bank that Bitstamp is using.  It is very important to MtGox that their bank understand what they are doing, and to ensure that MtGox and their bank operate safely within all regulations (contrary to Bitstamp).  According to MagicalTux this takes longer than expected.

You could have mentioned Bitcoin-Central as an example.  Bitcoin-Central was headed in the right direction by basically getting lisenced to operate as a bank themselves.  Customers were about to get their own IBAN at Bitcoin-Central when they had to close due to a security breach at their hosting provider.  I hope they'll open again soon.

[Serpens66]

You could have mentioned Bitcoin-Central as an example.  Bitcoin-Central was headed in the right direction by basically getting lisenced to operate as a bank themselves.  Customers were about to get their own IBAN at Bitcoin-Central when they had to close due to a security breach at their hosting provider.  I hope they'll open again soon.

sry for offtopic, but on the website of bitcoin-central is nowhere written that it's closed and no information about anything happend. So I have no clue if they are back or when they will be back, do someone know something about them?

[Zarathustra]

http://www.coindesk.com/germanys-bitcoin-de-and-fidor-bank-ag-form-partnership/
http://www.bitcoin-exchange-berlin.com/2013/07/bitcoin-mit-haftungsdach.html

[joesmoe2012]

Page 50 of this thread iirc..

I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given.

Looks like people are reporting June 17th transfer still pending. What is that now, 8 or 9 weeks. A far cry from the 2 weeks which Gox support will claim in their initial response to inquiries about this matter.

While I agree that ongoing withdrawals in other currencies argue against insolvency, this is not the behavior of a responsible business.

I suggest you check your math...June 17th to August 17th would be a full 2 months.

[bernard75]

Page 50 of this thread iirc..

I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given.

Looks like people are reporting June 17th transfer still pending. What is that now, 8 or 9 weeks. A far cry from the 2 weeks which Gox support will claim in their initial response to inquiries about this matter.

While I agree that ongoing withdrawals in other currencies argue against insolvency, this is not the behavior of a responsible business.

I suggest you check your math...June 17th to August 17th would be a full 2 months.

Which is 8 or 9 weeks.

[smoothie]

Page 50 of this thread iirc..

I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given.

Looks like people are reporting June 17th transfer still pending. What is that now, 8 or 9 weeks. A far cry from the 2 weeks which Gox support will claim in their initial response to inquiries about this matter.

While I agree that ongoing withdrawals in other currencies argue against insolvency, this is not the behavior of a responsible business.

I suggest you check your math...June 17th to August 17th would be a full 2 months.

Which is 8 or 9 weeks.

Their initial announcement to delay all fiat withdrawals (well supposedly just USD) for two weeks turned into 5 weeks for me and that was it. I honestly believe that it was a tactic to buy time.

If any business needs to buy time with such tactics they are operating on BORROWED TIME. Simple as that.

[joesmoe2012]

Page 50 of this thread iirc..

I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given.

Looks like people are reporting June 17th transfer still pending. What is that now, 8 or 9 weeks. A far cry from the 2 weeks which Gox support will claim in their initial response to inquiries about this matter.

While I agree that ongoing withdrawals in other currencies argue against insolvency, this is not the behavior of a responsible business.

I suggest you check your math...June 17th to August 17th would be a full 2 months.

Which is 8 or 9 weeks.

haha sorry i need to check -my- math. Just woke up, head not working correctly yet.

I stand corrected.

[sturle]

I think you should not spread, that SEPA transfers are solved, until you saw it with your own eyes.. And even if no one here is lying it could be the same as usual, that it's just luck which transfer is fast and which not.
Fact is that there are thousands of undone withdraws pending or "confirmed" since weeks or months. Only if these undone transfers were done, they can say "it's solved".

You have to document your claim of thousands of withdraws pending.  I count a total of three recent SEPA withdrawals in this thread which have been pending for more  than two weeks.  Each one reeported over and over.  Standard international withdrawal is very slow.  We know that.  There is a huge backlog from the middle of June.

I'll try a four digit SEPA withdrawal next week, and report back.

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

So nothing is solved for open transfers... and I doubt it's solved for new transfers, but we will see.

Edit: ah and one withdrawl about 150€ from 2013/07/23 I got after a few days.

Edit2: just because there are not many people reporting delayed transfers, u can't say there are no. Because at the moment it's "normal" and normally no one cares about it anymore.
Today I made a new SEPA transfer about 300€, I will report back, if I get them next week.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.