MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[Squeaker]

about the only thing that keeps pushing bitcoin prices up, is the cost of the hashpower to find each coin, and as more people keep adding more, it'll just keep going up.

So would you argue that if you spend $5mil creating a bronze bust of Mark Karpeles that you will be able to sell it for at least $5mil?

I don't think supply and demand works that way.

Are you going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on mining gear to add hashpower to the network, to constantly lose money? You're not going to sell your coin at a loss if you can help it, and like it or not, the costs involved in mining, do have an impact on the prices that people are willing to buy and sell coin at.

So yes, supply and demand is still in effect.

It isn't all about the exchanges...

=squeak=

[1715032046]

1715032046

[1715032046]

1715032046

[1715032046]

1715032046

[1715032046]

1715032046

[1715032046]

1715032046

[Squeaker]

about the only thing that keeps pushing bitcoin prices up, is the cost of the hashpower to find each coin, and as more people keep adding more, it'll just keep going up.

So would you argue that if you spend $5mil creating a bronze bust of Mark Karpeles that you will be able to sell it for at least $5mil?

I don't think supply and demand works that way.

It "works that way" IF all the involved people are acting rationally.
i.e. if you know that you will be likely able to sell it, then you create it, and not the other way around.

Exactly! We saw an example of this a couple(few?) years ago when over the summer, the trading price dropped below 3 USD per BTC, and miners were turning off their gear as it wasn't profitable to keep mining at the time.

Fewer miners, made each coin cheaper to mine.

When the price rose again above that break-even point, most of that mining power came back online... and the smart miners, took the opportunity of the downtime, to rebuild and upgrade their rigs to be more efficient, bringing their own costs to mine down, and were better positioned to capitalize on the price rise again.

=squeak=

[tvbcof]

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

Mt gox was taking new signups up until the eve of going dark freaking criminals.

They were also paying out according to some reports.

If Mt. Gox were under orders to maintain business operations in a somewhat normal manner then it is not cut-n-dried that they would be defined as criminals.  Either in a court of law, or by a reasonable definition of the term IMHO.  I'm still reserving judgement on a specific label for Karpeles until more facts are in.  But I've pretty much ruled out defining Karpeles as whatever Ladar Levison is.

[donk4u]

We first express our most sincere regrets and apologies for this situation and for causing so much inconvenience to all our users and other interested parties. We will fully respect the above orders and maintain our assets with all the necessary care.

It is so blood boiling to have these asshats refer to theft of bitcoins as an inconvenience. I hope someone inconvinently   *******     Karpleses throat. Some people have had their life savings frittered away by these incompetent bungling boobs and oh its an inconvenience.

[tvbcof]

...
Some people have had their life savings frittered away by these incompetent bungling boobs and oh its an inconvenience.

Anyone who had their 'life savings' in Mt. Gox either didn't have more than they cannot earn it back by flipping burgers for a month or two, or they are so stupid that they were likely to lose it anyway before long even if Mt. Gox had never existed.

[donk4u]

...
Some people have had their life savings frittered away by these incompetent bungling boobs and oh its an inconvenience.

Anyone who had their 'life savings' in Mt. Gox either didn't have more than they cannot earn it back by flipping burgers for a month or two, or they are so stupid that they were likely to lose it anyway before long even if Mt. Gox had never existed.


 lolz its the victims fault they got fleeced you dumb troll knew i shouldn't have hit unignore to see what your dumb self had to say you probably know more then anyone about flipping burgers and mopping lavratory floors

[exocytosis]

A very simple point over all this, that I think sumarizes Karpeles and MtGox positions:

Once MtGox suspended all withdrawals due to missing BTC etc. they DID NOT suspend deposits or trading, that way attracting a whole lot of NEW money to sink into the bankruptcy.

If that is not a criminal, on purpose, act, I dont know what is.

Exactly. I've been repeating this as well, but now Karpeles is increasingly being painted as a goofy, incompetent good guy who just happened to "lose" hundreds of millions worth of BTC and fiat, while also continuing to receive new fiat and BTC deposits right until the very end. (Even after the site was gone, actually.)

The guy is a criminal. We know that much.

[itsunderstood]

[...]

If Mt. Gox were under orders to maintain business operations in a somewhat normal manner then

[...]

Yep.  But whom could give such an order?

[chocomav]

"yep – and in fact I actually wire transferred $15,000 the same day the website was shut down. Fuck me."

Ouch...!

A couple of interesting articles:

http://gawker.com/does-mt-goxs-ceo-have-a-secret-history-of-online-payme-1534752110

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/03/mt-gox-source-code-leaked-by-hackers-along-with-team-information-customer-data/

Looks like Empty Gox's 20GB database of customer info (along with bank/passport scans) has been hacked...

Talk about adding insult to injury....

[mayax]

Of course the late coming money was gambling.

What makes MtGox absolutely not less criminal when allowing it to happen.

That, is not crime. This, yes, it is.

BTW: BTC is "sky rocketing" again right now, back to 700. Karpeles spending the "stolen" money? ;-)

You should ask the geishas   )

Nobody will see any money from Mtgox. I didn't lose anything so that's why I am detached. Just move on if you can...very easy for me to say, very hard for you to do it....

[soy]

[14:17] <MagicalTux> It's up to the US govt when we can access the cold storage
[14:17] <MagicalTux> We never got it back after they confiscated it last summer
[14:18] <MagicalTux> I'm gonna be frank here
[14:18] <MagicalTux> They let us keep running the exchange but they did freeze all our assets in relation to the SR to investigation

So I was right then.

The FBI ran it as a honeypot and kept the deposit window open.

I knew it.  That's why he said "Things could not be better" because he was a captured piece and is glad for the relief and final truth.  The FBI stole everyone's coin from the moment they stepped in.

What other sorts of sites have they taken over and run in a criminal fashion?  Hmm?  Hhaha, I knew that this was what happened.

Some might argue that honeypots have a way of backfiring.  If one were to suppose the root cause of the JFK assassination was tweaking of US politics by European diplomats and intelligence to punish J Edgar Hoover's attempt to control UN voting by NYC tracking and recording personal failings of UN diplomats, al la Bobby Baker and control of congressional voting so it goes the 'the right way', we'd say that FBI honeypot scheme didn't work out well for the US.

If in the final analysis a honeypot via MtGox was a stupid move like the above possibility, maybe Putin is doing an invasion of Ukraine against best intelligence.

[silvermario]

[14:17] <MagicalTux> It's up to the US govt when we can access the cold storage
[14:17] <MagicalTux> We never got it back after they confiscated it last summer
[14:18] <MagicalTux> I'm gonna be frank here
[14:18] <MagicalTux> They let us keep running the exchange but they did freeze all our assets in relation to the SR to investigation

So I was right then.

The FBI ran it as a honeypot and kept the deposit window open.

I knew it.  That's why he said "Things could not be better" because he was a captured piece and is glad for the relief and final truth.  The FBI stole everyone's coin from the moment they stepped in.

What other sorts of sites have they taken over and run in a criminal fashion?  Hmm?  Hhaha, I knew that this was what happened.

Some might argue that honeypots have a way of backfiring.  If one were to suppose the root cause of the JFK assassination was tweaking of US politics by European diplomats and intelligence to punish J Edgar Hoover's attempt to control UN voting by NYC tracking and recording personal failings of UN diplomats, al la Bobby Baker and control of congressional voting so it goes the 'the right way', we'd say that FBI honeypot scheme didn't work out well for the US.

To itsunderstood: this faked chat is a fucking rickroll you dumbass.
Don't bother to reply, had you on ignore for weeks.

[chocomav]

Here is the complete "fake chat":

http://pastebin.com/LPm3jBG7

2.[14:13] <xiando> I'm surprised you actually answer me for once. I did not expect that. I'm just wondering if you have a timeframe for when the "temporary unavailable" bitcoins will be available?
3.[14:15] <MagicalTux> I never thought it would come to this but here we are
4.[14:15] <MagicalTux> I'm gonna give a public statement later
5.[14:16] <MagicalTux> I give you my word
6.[14:17] <MagicalTux> For you see there is a lot of things we have to deal with now
7.[14:17] <MagicalTux> It's up to the US govt when we can access the cold storage
8.[14:17] <MagicalTux> We never got it back after they confiscated it last summer
9.[14:18] <MagicalTux> I'm gonna be frank here
10.[14:18] <MagicalTux> They let us keep running the exchange but they did freeze all our assets in relation to the SR to investigation
11.[14:19] <MagicalTux> So you see it is really not our fault
12.[14:19] <MagicalTux> So down to the deep truth
13.[14:13] <xiando> truth?
14.[14:19] <MagicalTux> It never accrued to us that we would have to access the cold storage
15.[14:20] <MagicalTux> I'm gonna have
16.[14:20] <MagicalTux> to run out shortly
17.[14:21] <MagicalTux> hang around for a while so
18.[14:21] <MagicalTux> you and I can talk some more
19.[14:21] <MagicalTux> after desert
20.[14:21] <MagicalTux> Now you should read the second word of everything I wrote

Entertaining, just wish the actual underlying song could be embedded here...

[Squeaker]

... maintain our assets with all the necessary care.

Why do I not feel reassured by this statement... .. .

=squeak=

[chocomav]

It appears that Karpeles may have had similar problems in the past:

http://gawker.com/does-mt-goxs-ceo-have-a-secret-history-of-online-payme-1534752110

In the wake of Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox announcing that it lost $473 million worth of the virtual currency, many people who saw their money disappear have called for CEO Mark Karpeles to be imprisoned. Well, funny thing: it wouldn't necessarily be the first time Karpeles has been arrested for fraud.

As pointed out to Gawker by a tipster who wishes to remain anonymous, Karpeles seems to discuss a past arrest concerning "payment systems on the internet" in a 2006 post on his blog Magical Tux. The post, like all on the blog Karpeles links to in his Twitter bio, is in French, but the tipster translated the relevant section on his personal Tumblr:

"Indeed, during my misspent youth, I made a huge, huge mistake. Enough silliness that I found myself locked into custody and brought temporarily placed in the "mousetrap" (souricière: possibly "n.f. (pol.): 'Baited trap' laid by the forces of law-and-order."). This was followed by an investigation of more than a year, which eventually ended in a trial.

I will not give too much detail about what I did wrong, just say it concerns payment systems on the Internet. I spent two years taking risks becoming larger, perhaps because it was an exciting side … whatever, I ended up getting arrested (in rather bizarre circumstances, noting that when I was arrested, I was just in a police station to file a complaint for something else). Anyway, I was released four days later and placed under "judicial review". Basically I did not have the right to leave France and I had to go regularly to the courthouse to speak to someone who was going to see if I lived in "the right way".
...
In the end, the trial was not concluded too bad for me (3 months suspended sentence disappearing after 5 years, and nothing in the criminal record)."

According to Karpeles' blog post, the fallout from this "huge, huge mistake" is why he eventually migrated to Japan, where he now lives. There is almost no evidence of Karpeles' possible past arrest on the internet, perhaps because, as the blog post claims, his sentence would have been wiped from records somewhere around two years ago.

But a recent story in the French paper Le Journal de Sâone et Loire, that includes quotes from Karpeles' mother Anne, says that after starting an IT company in Paris, Karpeles left the city after being caught committing "computer fraud." This small tidbit was noticed by Reddit's Bitcoin forum, but has not yet trickled up to the media until now.

If Karpeles does have a history of committing fraud, it doesn't necessarily mean that he did anything wrong legally or morally with Mt. Gox's Bitcoins. But it probably won't make the people out $473 million sleep any easier.

[itsunderstood]

To itsunderstood: this faked chat is a fucking rickroll you dumbass.
Don't bother to reply, had you on ignore for weeks.

It's common practice to front-run an actual truth.  As to who did the rickroll, sure, it's cute, but you are a fucking idiot to drop it there.  God damn what are you 12 years old?  Rick roll is not only not funny, its a poor distraction meant to make dumbshits start sniffing elsewhere.  I don't give a fuck about shitty rickroll jokes, god damn, how old is the Internet FFS?  STFU idiot.

[soy]

Learned a new word.  Rickroll.  First encounter.

[itsunderstood]

I don't even care about WHY data gets sent into the memespace, I was just waiting for it.  Once it is floated in the forum, even if it is just some silly user trolling (whop the fuck does rickroll?  Not me, ever not once), it is still confirmation.

Now sure, there's sooooo many super smart people, I know that.  But since the coins are "gone" and he won't talk, then that means: Gag order.  Just because some user trolls the world with some bullshit chat, hey good for him, his chanbuddies can suck his dick later.  Me, I am simply watching for what I already understand to be true.  You know, like, differential diagnosis on Dr. House MD?  I mean, I am just waitng for the gag order to be explained, and as the heat increases, this will be more than just another rickroll.

He is smug, because he is protected by his partners-invisible.  The mannerisms and look on him (imo as a amateur psychologist) are those of a nerd who is a captured pawn.  How many other captued pawns can you name and did they fuck their techbuddies over?  And who puppeted them?

Sure, he could just be one lone dummy stealing people's coins, or losing them.  But, that's the simpler explanation, and many people fail in applying occam's razor, it only applies when all other things are equal.  Well, the simplest answer doesn't apply when SR money coinbag got taken by the FBI. That fact disallows occam's razor.  SR was surely bankrolled from wallets inside Gox at least during the years in question.

Damned lawyers gagging everyone.  I am just saying, ignore the children who are trolling, and focus on the ball.  Capturing a website and then running it, is what they do, I'm not guessing, I'm saying that's how they operate.

edit

The only question is who kept the deposit window open, because that is inducement to fraud.  But, if it was LEOs who said keep it open, then it is they who are at fault.

[itsunderstood]

(my rickroll)

So I was right then.

If in the final analysis a honeypot via MtGox was a stupid move like the above possibility, maybe Putin is doing an invasion of Ukraine against best intelligence.

Very interesting to see you guys use the rickroll I wrote (I use "xiando" on IRC) in it's entirely as a credible source.  

I knew I should have put something about aliens and illuminati in there too

I noticed it later, but it didn't make me hesitate for one second.

Forums are for trolling, there are fake user account all day.  I am known on glp and ATS and LOP, believe that.

So yeah I mean, it's cool to have fun.  But if I had to guess, I would say you probably opened your mind and channeled truth.  I think you wrote what is mostly true.  And if NOT, then the only explanation can only be known, once the lawyers exit their private discussions.  In the case of market default like the potato collapse, it can take years.

So, lawyers, can anyone tell us how to get around a gag order and force a person to testify?  Can they press Mark K. with stones as did old French courts and also US ones?  LOL, that'd tell you real quick who his buddies are.  But don't hurt him, just get him to testify.  Haha.

Anyway, yeah dude, what do you really think about what your mind typed out?  Do you also believe in Aliens and the Illuminati?  Because I do.

[itsunderstood]

http://digital.community-journalism.net/blog/what-do-when-your-judge-issues-gag-order

[...]

Prior restraint was at the heart of the Pentagon Papers case in 1971, when the Nixon administration tried to stop The New York Times and Washington Post from publishing portions of top-secret documents related to the Vietnam War.  

In a later case in Nebraska in 1979, the U.S. Supreme Court threw out a gag order that had imposed prior restraint on the media, saying such censorship was a violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I am simply guessing that some puzzle piece which connects to all this, is the stolen bag of coins from SR.

I gotta say, I liked SR, tho just as a citizen, ahem.  Frankly it was full of counterfeit silver bars and wack shit --I mean hey, do what you want caveat emptor but do we REALLY appreciate fraudulent metals or coins?  So, some part of SR were bad.  However the KEY is to understand that the FBI in it's creation, is paired with the mafia, as it was the 18th Amendment that made them both.  Neither the mafia nor the FBI, are Constitutional.  And every Constitution is fundamentally a debt document.

Anyway, the FBI sees itself as Jesus'-like, defending the children of the world, or whatever, by finding bad people.  Sure, they do find bad people.  But, they also foster crime in their ranks, due to the power, and the nature of a bag of money so easily stolen as the SR bag.

That bag, is like the coins in the Pirates' movie.  It is a tar baby, if you get my meaning.  So, the tar is coming home to roost, I would say, LOL.

Basically when I think back to how this could have been handled better, I might have wanted someone to stand outside Gox and when Mark comes up, just grab both his titties and twist them until he tells you what you need to know: That the deposit window is fully stealing your deposits.  Just twist them titties, I think it is even legal in french law to twist a man's titties if he has falsely dealt with you.

Anyway, we got people in here ascribing asperger's to the guy.  Probably he is just a puppet caught up in the tarbaby of our age.