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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2082516 times)
jdot007
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June 16, 2014, 11:52:30 AM
 #9021


Was that 99xGH total or accepted?   I saw both lower total hashrate and very high rejects from dragon rentals from BetaRigs and LeaseRigs.


The P2Pool node that I was using reported between 800-1000 gh and the payouts were very similar/tad bit higher than 1t of ants running on Eligius. I'd like hear from other owners as YMMV may apply here though.

J

 
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IYFTech
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June 16, 2014, 12:09:10 PM
 #9022

Is anyone using Dragon 1Th on p2pool? Care to share your experiences? Thinking of getting a few if they're compatible...... Tongue

Worse than the S2's on p2pool.  You'd be lucky to get 800gh per dragon pointing it to a p2pool node. At least that's what I've experienced from rentals. So far the avoid for p2pool list for me includes: S2, dragons, and Cointerra.

The goto list for rentals/physical p2pool compatible (full hashrate) include: S1's, KNC and Spondoolies.  

Haven't seen what the Rockminers (R or Box) do with p2pool yet.

Thanks jedimstr, more bad news then.........I gotta say, it absolutely wrecks my f*cking head that there is so much incompatibility with p2pool & most mining hardware due to a complete lack of development work by the invisible dev here - which brings me on to another point:

I invite forrestv to please post here on his own thread with an update on what is happening with regards the development of p2pool & p2pool.info so as to stop everyone having to guess what is going on & put an end to all the childish name calling being done by certain individuals. It's about time you spoke up.

It seems pretty obvious that we are not going to hear from him, so why the hell don't we change the code in p2pool to donate to miners instead of him? Donating to a dev who doesn't/can't/won't either develop the software or comment on this thread is not only pointless, but a waste of everyone's hard earned satoshi & doing this would only encourage more miners to p2pool. Frankly, I'm sick of him receiving donations for doing & saying f*ck all. If this means forking or whatever - so be it. At least that way it will be the miners who benefit from using p2pool. Maybe even a new thread, that way we can start looking for a dev who is willing to take a look at the p2pool code to make it more user friendly & hardware compatible? I don't know, it's up to the p2pool community of course, but it's about time something was done.
The ghash situation has caused many miners to look for alternative pools, I see so many people saying p2pool is the perfect option, decentralize, etc etc - but they can't use it! We are missing a massive opportunity here to make p2pool THE pool & safeguard the network for the future of Bitcoin - but once again we are missing it by a mile.

It just makes me so angry.


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murdof
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June 16, 2014, 12:34:50 PM
 #9023

I updated my guide to install P2Pool with 2 commands only (after you install Ubuntu 14.04 LTS).

I hope this helps people with little Linux knowledge to move to P2Pool...

jonnybravo0311
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June 16, 2014, 12:40:00 PM
 #9024

Quote
Thanks jedimstr, more bad news then.........I gotta say, it absolutely wrecks my f*cking head that there is so much incompatibility with p2pool & most mining hardware due to a complete lack of development work by the invisible dev here - which brings me on to another point:
The failure is not on the part of p2pool, but on the drivers for cgminer in the hardware itself.  Kano has been working to try to get the S2 playing nicely, but hasn't yet been able to solve the problem because of the closed-source nature of Bitmain's driver.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
IYFTech
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June 16, 2014, 12:45:55 PM
 #9025

I'm aware of this.

The S2 (and others) work fine on any other pool - it's been like this ever since asics came out. If they all work on every other pool but this one - it is arguably a p2pool problem. However, as there is no dev here to look into it, it's not going to change in a hurry - that is my point.

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
murdof
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June 16, 2014, 12:48:56 PM
 #9026

I'm aware of this.

The S2 (and others) work fine on any other pool - it's been like this ever since asics came out. If they all work on every other pool but this one - it is arguably a p2pool problem. However, as there is no dev here to look into it, it's not going to change in a hurry - that is my point.

SP10 was working with P2Pool but then it had an issue.
They issued a new version (1.4.4) that works with P2Pool. I think they updated to latest cgminer.

So maybe it is not always P2Pool problem and things can be fixed by others.
Maybe ckolivas can enlighten us...

IYFTech
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June 16, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
 #9027

I'm aware of this.

The S2 (and others) work fine on any other pool - it's been like this ever since asics came out. If they all work on every other pool but this one - it is arguably a p2pool problem. However, as there is no dev here to look into it, it's not going to change in a hurry - that is my point.

SP10 was working with P2Pool but then it had an issue.
They issued a new version (1.4.4) that works with P2Pool. I think they updated to latest cgminer.

So maybe it is not always P2Pool problem and things can be fixed by others.
Maybe ckolivas can enlighten us...

Again, you miss my point. Even if the problem can be fixed by the devs at cgminer, it would make their work so much easier if p2pool had an active dev who would work with ckolivas  & kano to iron out any issues. The cgminer devs do this out of kindness & donations - the dev here gets donations for doing sod all.

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
jonnybravo0311
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June 16, 2014, 01:14:51 PM
 #9028

I'm aware of this.

The S2 (and others) work fine on any other pool - it's been like this ever since asics came out. If they all work on every other pool but this one - it is arguably a p2pool problem. However, as there is no dev here to look into it, it's not going to change in a hurry - that is my point.
Your point is very valid, and one with which I agree.  It might make the miner developers' lives easier if they had some input from the p2pool developer.  For example, the SP10 stopped working on p2pool when they released firmware version 1.4.2.  I reported it, and worked with the Spondoolies guys (Zvisha and Remo) so they could address it.  They had it addressed and fixed within a day or so and released 1.4.4.  Not only is that responsive, but it's a pretty nice turnaround time as well.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
murdof
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June 16, 2014, 01:49:25 PM
 #9029

Again, you miss my point. Even if the problem can be fixed by the devs at cgminer, it would make their work so much easier if p2pool had an active dev who would work with ckolivas  & kano to iron out any issues. The cgminer devs do this out of kindness & donations - the dev here gets donations for doing sod all.

I fully get your point.
I'm just saying if you have no support from P2Pool and we have no immediate support on it, maybe cgminer can provide workaround for P2Pool to work properly.
It is as I say a workaround not a solution.

PatMan
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June 16, 2014, 03:44:15 PM
 #9030

At the risk of repeating myself, I suggested this over a year ago....

I totally agree that the payments that the dev are getting should be directed at the miners instead - there is far more development being put into p2pool by it's users than the non-dev - which is zero & has been for many months.

I suggest everyone start using p2pool with the syntax "--give-author 0" in the command line. It's a temporary fix but will at least ensure that the non-dev stops getting paid for doing nothing until a more permanent solution is found. We need to get p2pool moving forward again - too much time has been wasted already.

Peace  Smiley


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June 16, 2014, 06:05:23 PM
 #9031

What newcomers to p2pool usually don't immediately grasp is there are two types of shares in p2pool.

Thanks for the explantion but I did know that. I was explaining that my miners were seeing accepted shares so my local pool was accepting them to demonstrate I didn't think there was a problem with the miner. I was asking if I can still get the same payout over a longer period of time, or if something was broken and I needed to fix something. I'm going multiple blocks found by p2pool before even a single share is found by me, doesn't that mean I may as well have had my miner turned off during that period? So I know the mechanics of p2pool but I'm a bit fuzzy on the statistics science involved, and if over a longer period of time can it even out even if you have little hash rate compared to everyone Can I somehow get the same payouts as I do on normal pools, if I wait long enough?
This kind of kills the appeal of smaller miners, though I don't know what is more, all the smaller miners (under 1TH) added up vs entities that command larger hashrates. If its only the bigger miners that matter in the 51% threat, then I guess its just a matter of convincing them. I fell for the rhetoric on /r/bitcoin on reddit, about saying everyone should switch to p2pool, but I didn't they were only talking to > 1TH people only.
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June 16, 2014, 09:05:15 PM
 #9032

net-misc/cgminer-4.3.5 doesnt work with p2pool stratum, not here anyways - it falls to longpoll
CartmanSPC
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June 16, 2014, 09:12:19 PM
 #9033

Been seeing the following error lately:

Code:
No bitcoind connection when block submittal attempted!

Restarting the coin daemon seems to resolve it temporarily but I still see the following error sometimes:

Code:
Block submittal result: False (u'rejected') Expected: True

Anyone?

Is it possible to have a backup coin daemon running with p2pool?

norgan
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June 16, 2014, 09:15:27 PM
 #9034

At the risk of repeating myself, I suggested this over a year ago....

I totally agree that the payments that the dev are getting should be directed at the miners instead - there is far more development being put into p2pool by it's users than the non-dev - which is zero & has been for many months.

I suggest everyone start using p2pool with the syntax "--give-author 0" in the command line. It's a temporary fix but will at least ensure that the non-dev stops getting paid for doing nothing until a more permanent solution is found. We need to get p2pool moving forward again - too much time has been wasted already.

Peace  Smiley



This is my point. If you are donating to the dev and are not happy about the lack of development then its your own silly fault. Set donation to 0.

I agree we need to try and fix the issue with larger miners but I've rented some rigs and they've been quite good.

Miner, tech geek, operator of NorgzPool - Sydney Australia P2Pool Node creator of p2pool fancy front end

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jonnybravo0311
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June 16, 2014, 09:20:43 PM
 #9035

What newcomers to p2pool usually don't immediately grasp is there are two types of shares in p2pool.

Thanks for the explantion but I did know that. I was explaining that my miners were seeing accepted shares so my local pool was accepting them to demonstrate I didn't think there was a problem with the miner. I was asking if I can still get the same payout over a longer period of time, or if something was broken and I needed to fix something. I'm going multiple blocks found by p2pool before even a single share is found by me, doesn't that mean I may as well have had my miner turned off during that period? So I know the mechanics of p2pool but I'm a bit fuzzy on the statistics science involved, and if over a longer period of time can it even out even if you have little hash rate compared to everyone Can I somehow get the same payouts as I do on normal pools, if I wait long enough?
This kind of kills the appeal of smaller miners, though I don't know what is more, all the smaller miners (under 1TH) added up vs entities that command larger hashrates. If its only the bigger miners that matter in the 51% threat, then I guess its just a matter of convincing them. I fell for the rhetoric on /r/bitcoin on reddit, about saying everyone should switch to p2pool, but I didn't they were only talking to > 1TH people only.
The mechanics are that every share you find is added to the share chain.  That share will pay out for 8640 found shares and it drops off the payout list.  One share every 30 seconds, 2 a minute, 120 an hour, 2880 a day, 8640 per three days.

The expected time to share is just an educated guess by the software.  Based on your hash rate, you have a very high probability of finding a share every 12.6 hours.  Does that mean it's going to happen like clockwork?  Not at all.  I had an S1 go for over a day before finding a share.  Once you find that share, though, every block the p2pool network finds within the 3 day window you'll be paid.  Even if your miner is shut down.  

With lower hash rate, you'll notice the variance quite a lot.  Firstly, you'll see it just to get a share on the chain.  Then you'll see it from the p2pool network finding blocks.  When you mine on the larger pools, you see less variance because they're solving blocks faster.  You also get smaller rewards per block because your contributions count less.

So... if you're more comfortable getting a slow, steady payout, go with one of the larger pools.  If you don't mind the variance, stick with p2pool.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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June 16, 2014, 10:21:33 PM
 #9036

How many of you try to find nodes close to you and add them to your nodes when you run your node with --p2pool-node?
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June 16, 2014, 11:03:50 PM
 #9037

How many of you try to find nodes close to you and add them to your nodes when you run your node with --p2pool-node?

I've got my own nodes doing that, I have a couple nearby that I have added also. how advantageous is it exactly to do so do you think? does it make a huge difference?

Miner, tech geek, operator of NorgzPool - Sydney Australia P2Pool Node creator of p2pool fancy front end

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ratty
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June 16, 2014, 11:25:46 PM
 #9038

The mechanics are that every share you find is added to the share chain.

Thanks for the info.
What I'm unable to figure out, and nobody gets what I'm asking, is if blocks are discovered by the pool without me finding a share during that "round", since as far as p2pool is concerned I didn't do anything. Do I just lose out in the long run, or does it somehow magically average out over the course of a month I'll get comparable payouts from a centralized pool in the long run?
Again, this is in the case of getting 0 pool shares, I realize that once my miner finds a real share, its all good, I am talking about the case where the hash rate is too low to find even a single share after many blocks go by. When I do find a share, I'm only credited for a few hours of mining, my miner finally found one, and if I had been mining at a normal pool I would have gotten 3x that amount. So if I just stuck with it in p2pool for a month, would it average out even though I am not finding any shares for multiple blocks?
bitdigger2013
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June 16, 2014, 11:27:17 PM
 #9039

How many of you try to find nodes close to you and add them to your nodes when you run your node with --p2pool-node?

I've got my own nodes doing that, I have a couple nearby that I have added also. how advantageous is it exactly to do so do you think? does it make a huge difference?

I don't know. I just added a few that I found near me under 30ms and set the default nodes to 4.

Posted here to see if others have noticed a difference to see if it is worthwhile. Will give it more time to see.

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June 17, 2014, 12:15:46 AM
 #9040

So if I just stuck with it in p2pool for a month, would it average out even though I am not finding any shares for multiple blocks?

That's right, but while block difficulty is rising fast, it's more of a gamble than a centralised pool if you're using hashrates where the statistically expected time to share is more than the statistically expected time to a block for the pool. But it depends on how long your window of opportunity is while your equipment is still competitive.

Here's the most extreme way to illustrate the risks. If you get all your best luck with shares early on in the useful life of the miner, and p2pool does too with the network blocks, then you will comfortably do much better than with a centralised pool. If it were the opposite extreme, and you get your worst luck with shares and p2pool has it's worst luck with blocks, then you may end up with uneconomic mining hardware before you have a chance for the luck to rebalance.

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