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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2031630 times)
mdude77
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March 24, 2014, 09:51:23 PM
 #8101

it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining  in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.

numbers?  I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

M

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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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smooth
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March 24, 2014, 10:58:54 PM
 #8102

it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining  in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.

numbers?  I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

I don't know his numbers but I do know eligius hasn't had great luck lately either, so that may be part of it. Last year I was consistently at around 99% of max payout on eligius but over the past couple of months it is more like 97%. I'm probably below par on p2pool as well though, but I don't have an exact number. Somebody is getting all the luck in this network, but its not me. i plan to shift a small fraction of my hashrate to ghash as well, hopefully that will help smooth things out more.
mdude77
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March 24, 2014, 11:08:14 PM
 #8103

it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining  in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.

numbers?  I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

I don't know his numbers but I do know eligius hasn't had great luck lately either, so that may be part of it. Last year I was consistently at around 99% of max payout on eligius but over the past couple of months it is more like 97%. I'm probably below par on p2pool as well though, but I don't have an exact number. Somebody is getting all the luck in this network, but its not me. i plan to shift a small fraction of my hashrate to ghash as well, hopefully that will help smooth things out more.


if p2pool.info is accurate, p2pool is at 87% for 30 days and 89% for 90 days
according to my math, eligius is at 97% for 30 days and also 97% for 90 days

throw in pool wide NMC merged mining at eligius, as opposed to essentially solo mining it on p2pool, I'm not getting how p2pool could come out ahead.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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CartmanSPC
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March 24, 2014, 11:45:47 PM
 #8104

Anyone try using CloudFlare to protect their p2pools? Would it work? Any measurable performance issues?

Thanks in advance  Cool

mdude77
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March 24, 2014, 11:57:18 PM
 #8105

I've said this before... but I'm trying it again.

I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.

Difficulty just changed.

Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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IYFTech
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March 25, 2014, 12:50:39 AM
 #8106

I used to mine here at p2pool about six to nine months ago. I'm considering coming back and I have a couple of questions. I am using Ubuntu 12.04.
4: My latency is about .3s, that seems high should I be concerned about that and start tuning a little or is that acceptable?[/b]

Thanks,
GrapeApe

BTW: The conversation going on beneath my post is the same one that was going on six months ago just different people.....BORING

+1!!  You said it dude - the same old argument, on & on, never stops. This is not a p2pool support thread anymore(?) - there is no support - just bickering about the same shit. It should be renamed the "I'm right - your wrong argument thread" instead....... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Tongue

PS: 0.3 is OK dude  Grin

-- Smiley  Thank you for smoking  Smiley --  If you paid VAT to dogie for items you should read this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1018906.0
Tegija
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March 25, 2014, 01:07:55 AM
 #8107

it will be always big discussion which pool has better payouts. if we are only "thinking" about it this discussion is senseless...
i have reference miners in different pools since 2 months and can say pretty clear that mining in eligius is for sure not more effective than mining  in p2pool. even with lots of bad luck in p2pool last few months i have better payouts in p2pool.

numbers?  I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
M

Sorry, i did not try to sell you anything.  Wink

My reference miner mined ca 3% more in p2pool (not even in my own node). to give here proofs is to much extra work for me. i had in every pool 2 BFL 60 GH Singles mining and payouts were following between 15.january and 15 march:
Ghash.io - 1.012 BTC
Eligius - 0.997 BTC
P2pool - 1.027 BTC
btcguild - 0.962 BTC
of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).

I've said this before... but I'm trying it again.

I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.

Difficulty just changed.

Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.

M

thats good idea to do it, even if 2 weeks timeframe is too short for real comparison. you need in p2pool 3 days until your miner reach full payout height, in eligius it goes much faster.
and please just change the miners in one week (elegies to p2pool and other way) to get real numbers. hash rate of miners can seem to be same, but every miner is different, so changing them guarantees that both pools have equal chances.


Enjoy your life!
mdude77
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March 25, 2014, 01:10:08 AM
 #8108

Sorry, i did not try to sell you anything.  Wink

My reference miner mined ca 3% more in p2pool (not even in my own node). to give here proofs is to much extra work for me. i had in every pool 2 BFL 60 GH Singles mining and payouts were following between 15.january and 15 march:
Ghash.io - 1.012 BTC
Eligius - 0.997 BTC
P2pool - 1.027 BTC
btcguild - 0.962 BTC
of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).

Those are good numbers.  But it doesn't prove much because luck in one month can vary quite a bit, and you didn't include NMC which is available from eligius (and btcguild).

Quote
I've said this before... but I'm trying it again.

I have 200gh/s pointed at a public p2pool node with a fresh unused address.
I have another 200gh/s pointed at eligius with a fresh unused address.

Difficulty just changed.

Let's see how things look in 2 weeks.

thats good idea to do it, even if 2 weeks timeframe is too short for real comparison. you need in p2pool 3 days until your miner reach full payout height, in eligius it goes much faster.
and please just change the miners in one week (elegies to p2pool and other way) to get real numbers. hash rate of miners can seem to be same, but every miner is different, so changing them guarantees that both pools have equal chances.

Good idea.  Let's see if I remember to do that. Smiley

I was hoping to go a whole month, or 2 difficulty cycles.. which is less than a month I guess, or longer.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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roy7
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March 25, 2014, 01:10:47 AM
 #8109

Anyone try using CloudFlare to protect their p2pools? Would it work? Any measurable performance issues?

Thanks in advance  Cool

I'm interested in that too.

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
GrapeApe
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March 25, 2014, 01:12:06 AM
 #8110

PS: 0.3 is OK dude  Grin

Thanks man.
Tegija
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March 25, 2014, 01:15:57 AM
 #8111

I used to mine here at p2pool about six to nine months ago. I'm considering coming back and I have a couple of questions. I am using Ubuntu 12.04.
4: My latency is about .3s, that seems high should I be concerned about that and start tuning a little or is that acceptable?[/b]

Thanks,
GrapeApe

BTW: The conversation going on beneath my post is the same one that was going on six months ago just different people.....BORING

+1!!  You said it dude - the same old argument, on & on, never stops. This is not a p2pool support thread anymore(?) - there is no support - just bickering about the same shit. It should be renamed the "I'm right - your wrong argument thread" instead....... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Tongue

PS: 0.3 is OK dude  Grin

everything between 0.2 and 0.5 is OK. even 0.7 is ok if efficiency is round 100%.
going lower is just contra productive: you will get less fees and don't win anything.

Low latency is not the most important thing and tuning it very much down can bring many other problems like low shares, to high memory usage etc.

Enjoy your life!
roy7
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March 25, 2014, 01:17:12 AM
 #8112

Edit: I answered my 3rd question you just append +xxx to your user name for the miner pool credentials and it adjust the difficulty accordingly...

Remember this changes pseudo share difficulty to report to node, but doesn't change the share difficulty for actual shares on the share chain. For that you need to use /DIFF.

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
roy7
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March 25, 2014, 01:18:32 AM
 #8113

of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).

I don't know Acejam, but he runs a load balancing cluster of p2pool nodes here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422242.0

RoyalMiningCo: Pools retired. Was fun!
GrapeApe
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March 25, 2014, 01:24:01 AM
 #8114

Edit: I answered my 3rd question you just append +xxx to your user name for the miner pool credentials and it adjust the difficulty accordingly...

Remember this changes pseudo share difficulty to report to node, but doesn't change the share difficulty for actual shares on the share chain. For that you need to use /DIFF.

Thanks!
Tegija
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March 25, 2014, 01:26:39 AM
 #8115

Sorry, i did not try to sell you anything.  Wink

My reference miner mined ca 3% more in p2pool (not even in my own node). to give here proofs is to much extra work for me. i had in every pool 2 BFL 60 GH Singles mining and payouts were following between 15.january and 15 march:
Ghash.io - 1.012 BTC
Eligius - 0.997 BTC
P2pool - 1.027 BTC
btcguild - 0.962 BTC
of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).

Those are good numbers.  But it doesn't prove much because luck in one month can vary quite a bit, and you didn't include NMC which is available from eligius (and btcguild).


that is exactly what i was saying: one month is not enough to get real overview.
NMC/DVC/IXC amounts are already included to my total. this "extra money" is such marginal that it was for me even not worth to mention. per 1 BTC you usually mine round 2NMC so there it makes difference of 0.01BTC. IXC and DVC bring even less.

Enjoy your life!
Tegija
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March 25, 2014, 01:36:27 AM
 #8116

of course this difference is not huge but in the end it makes some $. only advantage of big pools was that i did not have to check and restart my miners every week. in p2pool i had to check all the time how my miners were working, restart them or even change the node (there are not many stabile nodes out there - sad but truth).

I don't know Acejam, but he runs a load balancing cluster of p2pool nodes here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422242.0

i have my own very stabile and effective node and don't need to look for other one. i just used for testing purposes other public nodes to have comparison to my own node also.
if i look this node than in the first moment it looks as they have to high dead rate and their efficiency is not at this moment very high neither. for my purposes some other nodes were better.

Enjoy your life!
BG4
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March 25, 2014, 03:51:15 AM
 #8117

I run a very stable node... It runs on a Duel Quad core Xeon U1 server with 24gigs of RAM...SSD hard drive... that is a pull from data center and bought from Ebay for $190....It checks for P2pool updates and automaticly pulls from git hub. that is the only time it reboots.....also with Battery backup ....I tryed to run on Atom duel processor. That build was a major fail....also tryed an i3 low power board...also was not up to the task...So I bit the bullit and went Big...I have not regretted it ...Props to Polrpaul for the build setup..... I also have a team speak server always running on  Amazon E2C ....for live chat...Any ones welcome .. just install team speak client... and point to

174.129.116.53    teamspeak server, We dont use voice ,just typing so no mic required

StangerG.mine.nu:9332    P2pool node... its in US, east coast......

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March 25, 2014, 05:26:32 AM
 #8118

Let's posit that both pools have the same expected value for a share given infinite time.

Let's further posit that shares are proportional to time. This is not exactly true, but it is close. If you do not like this equivalence, then you may modify my original statement to be that the payout for p2pool is greater over a finite number of shares.

The payout for a share is made over at most N shares for p2pool. Once N is reached your expected payout is equal to the expected value of the share. The payout for that same share on Eligius is made over a potentially infinite number of shares (blocks). Thus for any future share > N, e(p2pool) has an expected payout value of 0 and Eligius has some expected payout value > 0. Sp when we reach N (and for any finite number of shares >=N), the expected value paid out by p2pool is greater than the expected value paid out by Eligius, because Eligius still has some remaining expected payments > 0 while p2pool does not.

For shares < N it isn't as clear. I'm ignoring that case. If your window is less than N your expected payout for Eligius may in fact be higher, I'm not sure.

I'm really not sure if this is not clear to you or if you would just like to see it stated more formally.

I think if you're assessing the expected value over time for an MPPS variant reward method then you need to formally describe the state of the pool at the time the share is assessed. If the pool is in credit, then the expected value of the share will be 1.0 in finite time. If you are assuming the pool has no credit and no debit (starting state for this type of reward method) then you need to make that an explicit assumption.



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smooth
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March 25, 2014, 06:05:35 AM
 #8119

Let's posit that both pools have the same expected value for a share given infinite time.

Let's further posit that shares are proportional to time. This is not exactly true, but it is close. If you do not like this equivalence, then you may modify my original statement to be that the payout for p2pool is greater over a finite number of shares.

The payout for a share is made over at most N shares for p2pool. Once N is reached your expected payout is equal to the expected value of the share. The payout for that same share on Eligius is made over a potentially infinite number of shares (blocks). Thus for any future share > N, e(p2pool) has an expected payout value of 0 and Eligius has some expected payout value > 0. Sp when we reach N (and for any finite number of shares >=N), the expected value paid out by p2pool is greater than the expected value paid out by Eligius, because Eligius still has some remaining expected payments > 0 while p2pool does not.

For shares < N it isn't as clear. I'm ignoring that case. If your window is less than N your expected payout for Eligius may in fact be higher, I'm not sure.

I'm really not sure if this is not clear to you or if you would just like to see it stated more formally.

I think if you're assessing the expected value over time for an MPPS variant reward method then you need to formally describe the state of the pool at the time the share is assessed. If the pool is in credit, then the expected value of the share will be 1.0 in finite time. If you are assuming the pool has no credit and no debit (starting state for this type of reward method) then you need to make that an explicit assumption.

By MPPS do you mean eligius? Eligius is not in credit, and even if it were I don't think the expected value would be 100% because the round may go on longer than the credit.
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March 25, 2014, 06:31:14 AM
 #8120

By MPPS do you mean eligius? Eligius is not in credit,

Since you're discussing the expected value and infinite time, I thought it would be better to refer to reward methods rather than specific pools - I would prefer it that a statement I make which is true now continues to be true later. If you are specifically referring to Eligius at this point in time, then of course the expected value of a share for the next round could less than B/D (although the 'filo' reward order makes that tricky to describe exactly). However your statement will not be true at some point in the future if the pool has a significant positive buffer.

and even if it were I don't think the expected value would be 100% because the round may go on longer than the credit.

It depends on how long the pool has been running. For example if the pool has solved ten thousand blocks, then there's a 1% chance that the average shares per round / mining difficulty = 0.9768837. In this case the pool is 231 block (or 5775 btc) in credit. The probability of the next block requiring 231*D shares to solve is 1 - exp(-231).

So in that case, the probability of a share not having an expected value of B/D is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000004. A very small number you'll agree.

None of this proves you are wrong, but I don't think you have proved you are correct, either. I freely admit I'm cherry picking examples, but you're doing much the same if you're not deriving a formal result.


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