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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2028999 times)
mdude77
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June 22, 2014, 10:57:20 AM
 #9221

Another thing I'd add to the list...

Fix being able to get lots of transactions without GetBlocktemplate Latency going through the roof.  OR something that alleviates the problem.  Long term p2pool isn't going to cut it if it can't get transactions.

M
Is that reliant on bitcoind only or also peers? I've been doing some tuning of bitcoind but struggle to keep it below 0.5 secs and not topping 1s.
Is that a bitcoind issue or a p2pool issue?

Its not p2pool issue, use ssd disk and should be able to put
blockprioritysize=0
#blockminsize=2000
blockmaxsize=1000000
mintxfee=0.00001
minrelaytxfee=0.00001

With just 0.2s, with merged mining namecoin, fusioncoin, ixcoin and devcoin

I don't have control over the disk being used, as I'm using a VPS.  My maxconn is at 50, though, maybe that's my issue.  I'll tweak it and see what happens.

Thanks!

M

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nreal
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June 22, 2014, 10:58:29 AM
 #9222



yes of course, running a second is impossible
[ /quote]

What about chrooted bitcoind? Put it in jail perhaps
Why would you want two separate bitcoind's on the same machine? What problem are you trying to solve?

You can run one instance for mining --without-wallet and other for coins maybe, security..
jedimstr
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June 22, 2014, 11:00:13 AM
 #9223



yes of course, running a second is impossible
[ /quote]

What about chrooted bitcoind? Put it in jail perhaps
Why would you want two separate bitcoind's on the same machine? What problem are you trying to solve?

You can run one instance for mining --without-wallet and other for coins maybe?

1. Why?
2. Port contention issues.
3. Space Issues (inefficient use of space to have two Blockchains stored and sharing a Blockchain between two daemons is not advisable)
3. Why again?

Just run one... there's no reason to run two instances of Bitcoin Core on same box.

Usual caveats apply regarding Merged Coins and co-existing *coind instances...blah blah.. Smiley

nreal
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June 22, 2014, 11:06:49 AM
 #9224

"Just run one... there's no reason to run two instances of Bitcoin Core on same box."

Theres plenty of reasons, but it can be done with just one...
jedimstr
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June 22, 2014, 11:16:10 AM
 #9225

"Just run one... there's no reason to run two instances of Bitcoin Core on same box."

Theres plenty of reasons, but it can be done with just one...

So... what are they?  If it can be done with just one, then it really isn't a reason to run two or more.

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June 22, 2014, 11:21:10 AM
 #9226

So now that there are more eyes looking at P2Pool's code... and talk of brainstorming the BIG fix items like variance for smaller miners...

I'd like to make a teensy tiny request... from forrestv, the Templar Crypto Research team, or anyone really...

Could someone fix the Memory Usage graph so that it can actually work on anything other than Linux? 

This is what it looks like on a Mac and Windows (minus my big red arrow and commentary):


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June 22, 2014, 11:24:52 AM
 #9227

So now that there are more eyes looking at P2Pool's code... and talk of brainstorming the BIG fix items like variance for smaller miners...

I'd like to make a teensy tiny request... from forrestv, the Templar Crypto Research team, or anyone really...

Could someone fix the Memory Usage graph so that it can actually work on anything other than Linux? 

This is what it looks like on a Mac and Windows (minus my big red arrow and commentary):


Haha I run windows servers and have the same issue. I'm also lucky enough to not really be resource restrained so not a huge issue for me. I agree it would be nice but you'd have to write WMI for windows and god knows what for mac. Essentially though mac is Linux, well close enough, so the task should be somewhat easier.

I was looking at some powershell stuff to feed into the p2pool front end to report on server stats but my coding knowledge just isn't that great.

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cathoderay
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June 22, 2014, 11:26:40 AM
 #9228

This was supposedly fixed April 2013 - I'd check your setup:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg1978587#msg1978587

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norgan
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June 22, 2014, 11:31:52 AM
 #9229

This was supposedly fixed April 2013 - I'd check your setup:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg1978587#msg1978587
it obviously got broken again or there is some requirement we are missing.

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jedimstr
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June 22, 2014, 11:40:42 AM
 #9230

This was supposedly fixed April 2013 - I'd check your setup:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg1978587#msg1978587
it obviously got broken again or there is some requirement we are missing.


Yup, that fix didn't stay fixed.  And it was only for windows.  Mac nodes are still sans memory usage graph. 

Not a huge deal for me either.... I've got 32GB on the box running my node. I just hate seeing a blank graph. Hence the "teensy tiny" request Wink

mdude77
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June 22, 2014, 01:23:08 PM
 #9231

I updated the front end to my p2pool node to use Norgan's code.  Looks good, thank you Norgan!

M

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June 22, 2014, 02:46:33 PM
 #9232

"Just run one... there's no reason to run two instances of Bitcoin Core on same box."

Theres plenty of reasons, but it can be done with just one...

So... what are they?  If it can be done with just one, then it really isn't a reason to run two or more.

Modifications to the conf file (and/or source code) for p2pool purposes only, i.e. limitfreerelay, changes to mintxfee, etc.  If you have enough memory on your system, there are lots of things you could do to make it run faster.

Also, a p2pool bitcoind only needs 2 connections, one to your p2pool and the other to a single node.  I used to connect my p2pool bitcoind to 5.9.24.81 only.

Quote
Sun Jun 22 2014 11:59:24 GMT+0300 (EEST)   0.0489
Sun Jun 22 2014 11:56:36 GMT+0300 (EEST)   0.0662
Sun Jun 22 2014 11:53:48 GMT+0300 (EEST)   0.0334
Sun Jun 22 2014 11:51:00 GMT+0300 (EEST)   0.0242
Sun Jun 22 2014 11:48:12 GMT+0300 (EEST)   0.0162
Sun Jun 22 2014 11:45:24 GMT+0300 (EEST)   0.0175

This is getblocktemplate latency with 0.0001 fees...
Turn off all free transactions if they aren't already & increase fees to .00011.  Seems like a decent compromise to me.

Getblocktemplate latency isn't a huge deal, anyway... err, well, it is if those numbers are in seconds.  Shouldn't worry about it if it's 500ms or less, though.

ed:  Oh, and you do want minblocksize (or blockminsize?  been a while) set to 0, to get rid of all the free transactions.

Quote
I don't have control over the disk being used, as I'm using a VPS.  My maxconn is at 50, though, maybe that's my issue.  I'll tweak it and see what happens.

Thanks!

M
I already told you to do all that stuff a month or two ago, if it's the same project we're talking about, heh..  It won't have any impact on memory usage really, but you only need 2 connections on your bitcoind.

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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June 22, 2014, 03:20:33 PM
 #9233

Hey guys, i have a technical question concerning p2pool.

While shares can quite easily be DOA because of the ~60times faster sharechain, found bitcoin blocks shouldn´t become dead/orphaned that quickly, as they are then broadcast on to the Bitcoin network.

So what happens, when my found share would be a Bitcoin block but the p2pool node considers it a "late" share? Is it still passed on to the Bitcoin network?


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June 22, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
 #9234

Hey guys, i have a technical question concerning p2pool.

While shares can quite easily be DOA because of the ~60times faster sharechain, found bitcoin blocks shouldn´t become dead/orphaned that quickly, as they are then broadcast on to the Bitcoin network.

So what happens, when my found share would be a Bitcoin block but the p2pool node considers it a "late" share? Is it still passed on to the Bitcoin network?



Yes, but it won't show up in the p2pool block list, either.... and you won't get the .5% bonus for it, just the "normal" amount earned.

... also why no-submit-stale is bad to use with p2pool.

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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June 22, 2014, 03:29:43 PM
 #9235

Thanks, so if you had the no-submit-stale option turned on, it wouldn´t submit valid Bitcoin blocks that are not considered a valid share?

Isn´t there some mechanism every node immediatly recognizes a valid block as such, as every node runs the full Bitcoin client?

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June 22, 2014, 03:37:42 PM
 #9236

Thanks, so if you had the no-submit-stale option turned on, it wouldn´t submit valid Bitcoin blocks that are not considered a valid share?

Isn´t there some mechanism every node immediatly recognizes a valid block as such, as every node runs the full Bitcoin client?

I could be wrong here since it's been so long since I've mined on a p2pool with block times (ed: *over* a minute that is) under a minute, but I think it only detects the stale shares after a block.... but all shares should be submitted, as some share that's detected as stale (say, 1ms to 500ms late) could easily win an orphan race, esp. vs some of the pools that aren't set up quite right (propagate their blocks slowly).

from personal experience, I've had a share that was detected as DOA solve a bitcoin block, back in 2012

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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June 22, 2014, 03:46:12 PM
 #9237

Thanks, so if you had the no-submit-stale option turned on, it wouldn´t submit valid Bitcoin blocks that are not considered a valid share?

Isn´t there some mechanism every node immediatly recognizes a valid block as such, as every node runs the full Bitcoin client?

I could be wrong here since it's been so long since I've mined on a p2pool with block times (ed: *over* a minute that is) under a minute, but I think it only detects the stale shares after a block.... but all shares should be submitted, as some share that's detected as stale (say, 1ms to 500ms late) could easily win an orphan race, esp. vs some of the pools that aren't set up quite right (propagate their blocks slowly).

from personal experience, I've had a share that was detected as DOA solve a bitcoin block, back in 2012
Thanks again. Is the option to not send invalid shares in your miner or on the node?
It seems like it should be a setting in the miner...

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June 22, 2014, 03:57:51 PM
 #9238

Hey guys, i have a technical question concerning p2pool.

While shares can quite easily be DOA because of the ~60times faster sharechain, found bitcoin blocks shouldn´t become dead/orphaned that quickly, as they are then broadcast on to the Bitcoin network.

So what happens, when my found share would be a Bitcoin block but the p2pool node considers it a "late" share? Is it still passed on to the Bitcoin network?



Yes, but it won't show up in the p2pool block list, either.... and you won't get the .5% bonus for it, just the "normal" amount earned.

I don't see how such a block wouldn't pay the .5% bonus. The blocktemplate must always include it from the start to make a valid block, it can't be added afterwards or the block wouldn't be valid.

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June 22, 2014, 05:26:22 PM
 #9239

How does the peering system work and what do incoming and outgoing peers do?

Are the outgoing peers downloading the sharechain from you because they haven´t got the complete list?

What happens when your node has no ingoing peers?


Does your peernetwork automatically grow with your nodes´online time?

I read somewhere that you can also "force" your node to peer with a certain other node, is there a benefit in that?

Does a bigger peer network mean less orphaned shares? (as the found share should be distributed faster around the p2pool network)


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June 22, 2014, 05:31:21 PM
 #9240

...
I have built and managed large development teams in the past for specialized projects, and I have to say that none of them came close to the complexity and challenges offered by what we need in a p2pool dev team.
...
P2pool is not a massive difficult project ... forrestv is able to do it himself.

So I guess your comment above means you've only worked in small time projects Tongue

Hi Kano, nice to meet you???

Many applications start out as the brain child of a single dev (Bitcoin, Linux, Facebook, DOS, etc, etc...), but working alone inside a vacuum on a project that has already proved successful, like p2pool, can be detrimental to its overall success.

I'm hugely grateful for the substantial contribution of p2pool to the Bitcoin community by Forrest, it's a great accomplishment and I believe it can lead the mining world into a decentralized trust less future. But we need to fix the problems Forrest points out in his post first.

......
I have since been brainstorming and prototyping ways to fix the core problems with P2Pool - scalability and excessive variance for small miners. I prototyped a way to do trustless verification of blocks with O(1) storage so that we could free most P2Pool nodes from needing a local *coin node. I've spent a ton of time thinking of ways to implement parallel sharechains so that we can have shares more often, decreasing variance for small miners, while decreasing the strict latency requirements for hardware, sadly without any concrete results yet. Because this is a hard problem. I spent hundreds of hours in the summer of 2011 thinking about how P2Pool could possibly work, in a time before merged mining or pools with coinbase payouts even existed. Any further improvements that get us out of this local maxima that we're stuck in will require comparable amounts of thought.
.......

Like Forrest and others have said "this is a hard problem".

I'd like to see some really smart devs jump in and contribute to help solve the problems Forrest has been working on alone for some time now, fresh eyes and fresh ideas can go a long way and accelerate p2pools rise in popularity and use.

it is hard to work on this project when most people insist on cutting off the pool donations to me.

My node does not donate or charge a fee.

It is not because I think you are not entitled to compensation, its that I want to try and attract more miners to p2pool, and away from centralized pools.

Charging any fee above 0% right now will simply not get the job done.

I (and I think many others here) am willing to contribute to you Forrest, but I'd like to see it set up as some type of bounty system for work completed. As you said there are some real challenges, and throwing good money after bad does not seem like a solution to me...

So I guess the question is; what could the community do to motivate you to make p2pool a priority again other then the node donation %?


Thanks! I do plan to continue to develop it....

Does anyone know where i can get the p2pool luck over ~ 1 year?

Back to block 205238 is available on my pool stats page, all new blocks will be included. If anyone has the historical hash rate data for the pool the page could calculate luck back to the beginning....

Can Coin Cadence P2P Bitcoin Mining Pool frontend be dowloaded , it doesnt look so "beta" to me, I think it looks great and want to try it because it has many things in one place...

Not right now, it is still in beta, and there is a lot more I want to get done. To be candid, the full code may never be publicly available, there is a lot going on behind the scenes to generate the data, the db is already over 75MB, and I'm just not sure how to maintain all that data across different nodes running the front end. I've tried to make it platform independent, but some of the DB queries may be specific to MySQL...

That being said, when it's done, I will post a version of it on Github that will only require Bitcoind, p2pool, Highcharts, jquery, php, and Twitter Bootstrap. the addition of Highcharts, PHP, MySQL and Twitter Bootstrap




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