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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2032074 times)
eleuthria
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July 12, 2014, 02:46:21 AM
 #9601

The bigger you are, the more likely you are to confirm your own block/share in an orphan race.

This is a valid point, but I would offer 2 counterpoints:

1. How often could this really occur, there are hundred(s) of p2pool nodes, the best connected are more likley to have the longest chain at 30 second shares, and there is only a 72 hour share chain window to play around with before it's vanished to the either... I imagine it could occasionally accidentally happen, but we are not strangers to orphaned shares as it stands Wink

2. A big operation joining the pool, let's say 1PH/s, would cut our variance by more then 50% from were we are now, this would attract other miners to the pool who were held back by < 1 block per day... Those other miners would most likely remove a 51% advantage pretty quickly...

Again, you are right, but I just don't see it as a big threat, in fact I would welcome and encourage large mines to join p2pool!

Just my BTC0.02...



Don't get me wrong, in this case I don't think there is much threat of the "accidental 51%", or even much chance of any noticeable edge towards PetaMine, though there would be a very slight one.  It's just funny that like I posted earlier, how much of an advantage actually increases the worse their connectivity to p2pool is (assuming fully benign operators).

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July 12, 2014, 04:51:36 AM
 #9602

You still have the catch 22 problem if you bring in big mining operations like petamine: The bigger the p2pool hashrate, the harder it becomes for small miners. In precisely the opposite way from regular pools, the bigger p2pool is, the more it starts resembling solo mining for every miner. If the entire bitcoin network mined on p2pool, it would be like solo mining at 1/20th of the network hashrate (so like mining at a diff of almost 1 billion).

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errkal
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July 12, 2014, 11:05:01 AM
 #9603

I have a question about fees.

Basically I want to know how they work.

I have a pool that has been running for a few days and 2 payouts have gone out of 0.002 each to the wallet address that is my BTC address.

I have a set a 5% pool fee as a maintenance fund, but nothing has gone to the p2pool address, how do fees actually work? I can seem to find anything documentation wise that actually explains how it works and how the payments are made, or more importantly when the payments are made.

I haven't set a p2pool address in the config in p2pool but it has picked one up from bitcoin as it connected using bitcoin.conf. Do I need to manaully say an address to use? in the p2pool config or is this address ok?

Thanks.

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windpath
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July 12, 2014, 11:33:43 AM
 #9604

...how much of an advantage actually increases the worse their connectivity to p2pool is (assuming fully benign operators).

This is an interesting one, had to give it some thought... My assumption at his point would be that any latency to p2pool would also be reflected in bitcoind and perhaps remove any advantage they might have gained by causing orphan race losses for themselves on actual found blocks?

Also, its notable that there are a bunch of active nodes in China now, however this still might work in South America or Africa (Rio or Cape Town?) as I have not seen nodes there yet...

You still have the catch 22 problem if you bring in big mining operations like petamine: The bigger the p2pool hashrate, the harder it becomes for small miners. In precisely the opposite way from regular pools, the bigger p2pool is, the more it starts resembling solo mining for every miner. If the entire bitcoin network mined on p2pool, it would be like solo mining at 1/20th of the network hashrate (so like mining at a diff of almost 1 billion).

Agreed, but again, this is a problem I'd love for p2pool to actually have (on a bigger scale)...

The lower threshold for getting a payout in ~most~ blocks seems to be around 40 GH/s right now. Would bumping that to 80-100 GH/s by adding 1 PH/s to the network impact that many miners? It looks like under 2% of pool miners right now...

It is a very real challenge/problem, but I don't think it impacts that many miners, and the ones it is currently impacting would really not be contributing that much to the pool to begin with (I know poor excuse, I'd like to include everyone...).

Actually making the problem worse (by growing the pool speed and increasing the minimum effective hash rate per-miner) might also prompt more active work on a solution... Or slower miners could join together and simply create an alternate share-chain (I don't think this is the best long term solution, but it would work today...)

Again, agree its a real problem, but one I'd love for us to have it on a larger scale so that it might "force" a solution...

windpath
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July 12, 2014, 11:39:53 AM
 #9605

I have a question about fees.

Basically I want to know how they work.

I have a pool that has been running for a few days and 2 payouts have gone out of 0.002 each to the wallet address that is my BTC address.

I have a set a 5% pool fee as a maintenance fund, but nothing has gone to the p2pool address, how do fees actually work? I can seem to find anything documentation wise that actually explains how it works and how the payments are made, or more importantly when the payments are made.

I haven't set a p2pool address in the config in p2pool but it has picked one up from bitcoin as it connected using bitcoin.conf. Do I need to manaully say an address to use? in the p2pool config or is this address ok?

Thanks.


There are 2 types of fees you can set, one for forrestv (--give-author), and one for an address you designate (-f). If you do not set -f it will pull an address from bitcoind, this is not a good practice in my opinion as you don't want to keep any Bitcoin on a public p2pool node for security reasons.

Both fees work the same way, they are a % of found shares by the node, not an actual % of earnings... So in your case 5% of found shares would go to the address you designate with -f.

mdude77
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July 12, 2014, 12:07:37 PM
 #9606

The lower threshold for getting a payout in ~most~ blocks seems to be around 40 GH/s right now. Would bumping that to 80-100 GH/s by adding 1 PH/s to the network impact that many miners? It looks like under 2% of pool miners right now...

I'm curious how you came up with 40 GH/s?  I have one S1 (180 GH/s) that I'm not putting on p2pool because the variance is too much for me.  If my S2s worker properly, I'd put them all there, but they don't, so the S1 stays with my S2s.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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windpath
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July 12, 2014, 12:19:43 PM
 #9607

The lower threshold for getting a payout in ~most~ blocks seems to be around 40 GH/s right now. Would bumping that to 80-100 GH/s by adding 1 PH/s to the network impact that many miners? It looks like under 2% of pool miners right now...

I'm curious how you came up with 40 GH/s?  I have one S1 (180 GH/s) that I'm not putting on p2pool because the variance is too much for me.  If my S2s worker properly, I'd put them all there, but they don't, so the S1 stays with my S2s.

M

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

Click on miners tab and sort by hash rate, you can look at miner dashboard for any of them and see payouts...

mdude77
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July 12, 2014, 12:56:26 PM
 #9608

The lower threshold for getting a payout in ~most~ blocks seems to be around 40 GH/s right now. Would bumping that to 80-100 GH/s by adding 1 PH/s to the network impact that many miners? It looks like under 2% of pool miners right now...

I'm curious how you came up with 40 GH/s?  I have one S1 (180 GH/s) that I'm not putting on p2pool because the variance is too much for me.  If my S2s worker properly, I'd put them all there, but they don't, so the S1 stays with my S2s.

M

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

Click on miners tab and sort by hash rate, you can look at miner dashboard for any of them and see payouts...

I know I'll get a payout.. but variance is a bear.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
windpath
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July 12, 2014, 01:47:58 PM
 #9609

The lower threshold for getting a payout in ~most~ blocks seems to be around 40 GH/s right now. Would bumping that to 80-100 GH/s by adding 1 PH/s to the network impact that many miners? It looks like under 2% of pool miners right now...

I'm curious how you came up with 40 GH/s?  I have one S1 (180 GH/s) that I'm not putting on p2pool because the variance is too much for me.  If my S2s worker properly, I'd put them all there, but they don't, so the S1 stays with my S2s.

M

http://minefast.coincadence.com/p2pool-stats.php

Click on miners tab and sort by hash rate, you can look at miner dashboard for any of them and see payouts...

I know I'll get a payout.. but variance is a bear.

M

It can be... I bought 2 S1s close to the end at .5, had a PSU, they have made ROI on p2pool:

http://minefast.coincadence.com/miner.php?id=13AxQAKFiy6Dks5Jwdbah3rhMJAJ9UzwHk

Obviously this does not take power costs into consideration, but plenty of time left running in the black...

sconklin321
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July 12, 2014, 02:08:37 PM
 #9610

I have a question about fees.

Basically I want to know how they work.

I have a pool that has been running for a few days and 2 payouts have gone out of 0.002 each to the wallet address that is my BTC address.

I have a set a 5% pool fee as a maintenance fund, but nothing has gone to the p2pool address, how do fees actually work? I can seem to find anything documentation wise that actually explains how it works and how the payments are made, or more importantly when the payments are made.

I haven't set a p2pool address in the config in p2pool but it has picked one up from bitcoin as it connected using bitcoin.conf. Do I need to manaully say an address to use? in the p2pool config or is this address ok?

Thanks.


There are 2 types of fees you can set, one for forrestv (--give-author), and one for an address you designate (-f). If you do not set -f it will pull an address from bitcoind, this is not a good practice in my opinion as you don't want to keep any Bitcoin on a public p2pool node for security reasons.

Both fees work the same way, they are a % of found shares by the node, not an actual % of earnings... So in your case 5% of found shares would go to the address you designate with -f.

It's actually -a to set the node payout address, -f is the fee %.
windpath
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July 12, 2014, 02:40:00 PM
 #9611

Quote from: sconklin321

It's actually -a to set the node payout address, -f is the fee %.

That is correct, good catch, thanks!

errkal
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July 12, 2014, 04:12:26 PM
 #9612

Ahhh ok that makes sense, so if I found 100 shares 5 of them would go to the pool

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windpath
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July 12, 2014, 04:16:01 PM
 #9613

Ahhh ok that makes sense, so if I found 100 shares 5 of them would go to the pool

About 5... Also subject to variance so it not always exact...

errkal
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July 12, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
 #9614

Good old variance Tongue

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raskul
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July 12, 2014, 05:12:41 PM
 #9615

iceland node now available on www.centralcavern.uk

http://is.centralcavern.uk:9332/static/

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sconklin321
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July 12, 2014, 05:33:42 PM
 #9616

Wow did someone big just join the network?  We're up to almost a Petahash currently.

Edit: Actually broke it while I was writing this.
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July 12, 2014, 05:35:15 PM
 #9617

Wow did someone big just join the network?  We're up to almost a Petahash currently.


I was just going to say... it has been jumping from 800th to 500 th back to 900 th down to 450 th and now
1 PH...?

And my payouts are dropping big time
errkal
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July 12, 2014, 06:02:19 PM
 #9618

And back below 1PH Cheesy

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July 12, 2014, 07:36:58 PM
 #9619

Wow did someone big just join the network?  We're up to almost a Petahash currently.


I was just going to say... it has been jumping from 800th to 500 th back to 900 th down to 450 th and now
1 PH...?

And my payouts are dropping big time

Well we when your payouts drop like that the payout frequency corrects it, because at 1 PH we were at an 18-19 hr expected block time, not 1d 7hr.  So in the end you make the same.  Larger and less frequent, or smaller and more frequent, I'd actually vote for smaller and more frequent as that lowers variance.  So each share would get 3-4 payouts, not 2-3.
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July 12, 2014, 08:08:38 PM
 #9620

Wow did someone big just join the network?  We're up to almost a Petahash currently.


I was just going to say... it has been jumping from 800th to 500 th back to 900 th down to 450 th and now
1 PH...?

And my payouts are dropping big time

Well we when your payouts drop like that the payout frequency corrects it, because at 1 PH we were at an 18-19 hr expected block time, not 1d 7hr.  So in the end you make the same.  Larger and less frequent, or smaller and more frequent, I'd actually vote for smaller and more frequent as that lowers variance.  So each share would get 3-4 payouts, not 2-3.

Yes I see that and would like to see it ..........
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