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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2030640 times)
zvs
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July 16, 2014, 08:43:23 PM
 #9701

Awesome work windpath
 Smiley

Can I ask,  what is the end game for hosting a 0% p2pool node?  Obviously it costs you money.

One is to support a decentralized bitcoin I am sure, but what else are your goals?

I'm running a 0% fee node because it cost me a pittance to run it.  I can contribute that pittance to keeping the network going.

M

Yeah, I've already had a dedicated server for years, p2pool doesn't take much resources.  I ran a bitcoin one for a long time, now it's on doge for the last 3 or 4 months.  (nogleg.com:9555, hoho)  Oh, I did put a 0.1% fee, 'cause of several people thinking there must be shenanigans going on

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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July 17, 2014, 05:15:39 AM
 #9702

Chinese friends on the 1st order, on the 17th of arrival.
Here is the actual situation of ants running P2POOL S3, and much better than expected







 Wink
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July 17, 2014, 06:01:41 AM
 #9703

Chinese friends on the 1st order, on the 17th of arrival.
Here is the actual situation of ants running P2POOL S3, and much better than expected


very good, although, it is as would be expected, since it's a local node.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
abdullahadam
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July 17, 2014, 08:03:47 AM
 #9704

Awesome work windpath
 Smiley

Can I ask,  what is the end game for hosting a 0% p2pool node?  Obviously it costs you money.

One is to support a decentralized bitcoin I am sure, but what else are your goals?

Thanks.

My short term goals are pretty similar to many others here:

1. Grow the p2pool network; first through the addition of new nodes run by active miners, and second by providing access to reliable fast nodes for those without the time or inclination to set up their own.

2. Complete transparency; p2pool is in the unique position to be the first completely transparent pool. The data is all there, its just a matter of collecting, storing and presenting it to users.

3. Hardware compatibility; Work towards getting as much existing and new hardware to play well with the pool. New generations of HW are particularly important, as without them the pool will eventually dwindle.

4. Solve the variance/small miner challenges facing the pool so that it can grow and scale while remaining an attractive option to all.

To be honest, right now the "end game" is so far in the future its not even really a concern... At some point, if both Coin Cadence and p2pool are running strong, I do plan to implement some sort of revenue stream to support the operation of my node(s), and maybe even make a small profit, but for now and the foreseeable future working towards the challenges above takes priority, and I'm happy to host my node(s) on my own dime...

+1

You make me want to host a node too haha
Listen thanks for your help guys.  I wish I would have jumped on p2pool ages ago.

I think you should add that 3 day PPLNS period to your site though (maybe on a faq "why are my payouts so low?") .  That was very confusing to me why my payouts were so low in the first day of so. I almost dropped out thinking I'm gonna lose half my income if I stay here.  Glad I hung out long enough to get past that

Also another challenge for noobs is lack of down notifications (I handled this via a cron job now) .  One way I've seen this handled on other pools is you use your email address as your worker password and then the pool can email you when it goes down.  Thoughts?
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July 17, 2014, 09:20:15 AM
 #9705

Chinese friends on the 1st order, on the 17th of arrival.
Here is the actual situation of ants running P2POOL S3, and much better than expected


very good, although, it is as would be expected, since it's a local node.

Not really.  My S2s lose ~10% of their hashrate local or not on p2pool.

This is good news indeed for p2pool.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
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July 17, 2014, 11:31:21 AM
 #9706

Chinese friends on the 1st order, on the 17th of arrival.
Here is the actual situation of ants running P2POOL S3, and much better than expected


very good, although, it is as would be expected, since it's a local node.

Not really.  My S2s lose ~10% of their hashrate local or not on p2pool.

This is good news indeed for p2pool.

M
Juan from 112bit put up screenshots of his S3 mining on GHash.io yesterday and had an average of 450GH/s.  If the S3 is reporting 439GH/s on p2pool, that's pretty much right on target for Bitmain's claimed specs of 441.  Looks like I'll be plugging mine into my local node after all Smiley

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July 17, 2014, 12:35:51 PM
 #9707

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?

I don't understand the math well enough to answer this question but I am sure many of you can
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July 17, 2014, 12:44:47 PM
 #9708

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?

I don't understand the math well enough to answer this question but I am sure many of you can

No, I don't think you will loose money. Now this has grown a lot and I don't think you have to do a long run and will the difficulty go up by 30% ? I don't think so. It will not go all of a sudden. Everything is risky, there is an equal chance for both profit and lose.
Kindly,
       MZ

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July 17, 2014, 12:54:34 PM
 #9709

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?
Yes you can. Consequently you can also gain money. Contrary to what people will insist on, it does NOT even out in the end because difficulty keeps rising. However luck determines if you're ahead long term or behind long term in an irretrievable way. If diff did not continually rise and rose-and-fell or stayed the same it would even out.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
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July 17, 2014, 01:01:36 PM
 #9710

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?
Yes you can. Consequently you can also gain money. Contrary to what people will insist on, it does NOT even out in the end because difficulty keeps rising. However luck determines if you're ahead long term or behind long term in an irretrievable way. If diff did not continually rise and rose-and-fell or stayed the same it would even out.

Additionally Semaster has been tracking = amounts of ants on 3 pools from the beginning of this year https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416933.0
TL;DR P2pool has generated more coin, but this was also when Eligius and BTCG was being block-withhold attacked.

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July 17, 2014, 01:34:39 PM
 #9711

Yes you can. Consequently you can also gain money. Contrary to what people will insist on, it does NOT even out in the end because difficulty keeps rising. However luck determines if you're ahead long term or behind long term in an irretrievable way. If diff did not continually rise and rose-and-fell or stayed the same it would even out.
Thank you ck

Always good to hear from people that know what they are talking about.  You are pillars of the community.
Cheers!
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July 17, 2014, 02:42:19 PM
 #9712

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?
Yes you can. Consequently you can also gain money. Contrary to what people will insist on, it does NOT even out in the end because difficulty keeps rising. However luck determines if you're ahead long term or behind long term in an irretrievable way. If diff did not continually rise and rose-and-fell or stayed the same it would even out.
Your argument is based on the statement that difficulty keeps rising.  While historically this is true, it is not a guarantee of future patterns.  Yes, we have seen some insane rises in difficulty, but that is due to a number of factors including wider acceptance, general knowledge of crypto-currencies, incredible hardware advances, etc.  I don't think we can state as a fact that difficulty will forever continuously rise.

Just as you can have swings of bad luck, you can also have swings of good luck, which you correctly argue.  It would be an interesting experiment to see where the "tipping point" is.  In other words if we assume X change in difficulty, what is the point Y of bad luck from which you will likely never be able to recover?

There is a forum member named davejh who does some really great statistical analysis.  I'd love to see him plot this kind of thing.

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July 17, 2014, 06:03:46 PM
 #9713


Your argument is based on the statement that difficulty keeps rising.  While historically this is true, it is not a guarantee of future patterns.  Yes, we have seen some insane rises in difficulty, but that is due to a number of factors including wider acceptance, general knowledge of crypto-currencies, incredible hardware advances, etc.  I don't think we can state as a fact that difficulty will forever continuously rise.


Just wondering... I thought that the difficulty levels where built in to the whole pattern... or design of bitcoin and mining...
I thought that it was set well in advance every level?
Is it possible that it will stop going up??
I figured for sure within a few months I would be pushed out because of this and the expenses...?
Running 4 TH for a few months now and it has gone way down.....
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July 17, 2014, 06:08:11 PM
 #9714


Your argument is based on the statement that difficulty keeps rising.  While historically this is true, it is not a guarantee of future patterns.  Yes, we have seen some insane rises in difficulty, but that is due to a number of factors including wider acceptance, general knowledge of crypto-currencies, incredible hardware advances, etc.  I don't think we can state as a fact that difficulty will forever continuously rise.


Just wondering... I thought that the difficulty levels where built in to the whole pattern... or design of bitcoin and mining...
I thought that it was set well in advance every level?
Is it possible that it will stop going up??
I figured for sure within a few months I would be pushed out because of this and the expenses...?
Running 4 TH for a few months now and it has gone way down.....


It can go down if the hashrate drops.  See the table at the bottom, difficulty did go down twice before.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

This will only happen if the profit that you can get out of buying new mining equipment is less than the total return (or estimated speculative return).  Or if the total profit is less than the cost to run the unit (loss situation), then people will start turning off their machines.

Already a lot of the older hardware (BFL, some of those USB miners) have been shut off as they are losing money to run


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July 17, 2014, 06:19:29 PM
 #9715


Your argument is based on the statement that difficulty keeps rising.  While historically this is true, it is not a guarantee of future patterns.  Yes, we have seen some insane rises in difficulty, but that is due to a number of factors including wider acceptance, general knowledge of crypto-currencies, incredible hardware advances, etc.  I don't think we can state as a fact that difficulty will forever continuously rise.


Just wondering... I thought that the difficulty levels where built in to the whole pattern... or design of bitcoin and mining...
I thought that it was set well in advance every level?
Is it possible that it will stop going up??
I figured for sure within a few months I would be pushed out because of this and the expenses...?
Running 4 TH for a few months now and it has gone way down.....

The difficulty is not set in advance, it is a byproduct of the network "resetting" itself to ensure 10 minute block generation time.  Every 2016 blocks, the network basically says, "Ok, it's been 2016 blocks.  How long did it take me to get here?  How does that compare to what it was supposed to be?  Adjust to compensate."

Yes, that's a simplification, but you get the point.

Given this description, you can see that it indeed can stop going up.  If the average time for the previous 2016 blocks is greater than 10 minutes, then it would go down to compensate.  Last time that happened?  January, 2013.

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July 17, 2014, 06:24:34 PM
 #9716


Your argument is based on the statement that difficulty keeps rising.  While historically this is true, it is not a guarantee of future patterns.  Yes, we have seen some insane rises in difficulty, but that is due to a number of factors including wider acceptance, general knowledge of crypto-currencies, incredible hardware advances, etc.  I don't think we can state as a fact that difficulty will forever continuously rise.


Just wondering... I thought that the difficulty levels where built in to the whole pattern... or design of bitcoin and mining...
I thought that it was set well in advance every level?
Is it possible that it will stop going up??
I figured for sure within a few months I would be pushed out because of this and the expenses...?
Running 4 TH for a few months now and it has gone way down.....

The difficulty is not set in advance, it is a byproduct of the network "resetting" itself to ensure 10 minute block generation time.  Every 2016 blocks, the network basically says, "Ok, it's been 2016 blocks.  How long did it take me to get here?  How does that compare to what it was supposed to be?  Adjust to compensate."

Yes, that's a simplification, but you get the point.

Given this description, you can see that it indeed can stop going up.  If the average time for the previous 2016 blocks is greater than 10 minutes, then it would go down to compensate.  Last time that happened?  January, 2013.

Thanks guys... After I wrote that... I went and reread up on it and I see what your saying....
I kinda forgot it...
Wish it would level out a bit......
Thanks again
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July 17, 2014, 06:40:09 PM
 #9717

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?
Yes you can. Consequently you can also gain money. Contrary to what people will insist on, it does NOT even out in the end because difficulty keeps rising. However luck determines if you're ahead long term or behind long term in an irretrievable way. If diff did not continually rise and rose-and-fell or stayed the same it would even out.

While your bad luck up front won't even out in the end, neither will your good luck up front. I think people that say it will "even out in the end" mean that if you were to start mining now, you are just as likely to be lucky as unlucky, so the expected value washes out so in the end (from now until you stop). Of course, that ignores everything in the past. So if I was unlucky, I lost money. Going forward, everything will even out (from now on). If I was lucky, I made money - but going forward (from now on) it will even out.
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July 17, 2014, 08:21:02 PM
 #9718

Thank you for your time and I appreciate your help.

I feel like my miners have been hijacked.I started mining using P2Pool in mid June. All seem fine until on or about 7/2/2014 10:14:08 PM and I notice that I am not getting pay for blocks found. My hash rate as shown on P2p stats page seem consistent about 80 Gh/s with what I should get but on the configuration page of my blades it is much lower. My hash rate on each of my blades use to be 10 Gh/s but now it fluctuates about 6-8Gh/s max on each blade.

I reset the blades to their original factory setting and reconfigured it again and every thing seem fine and now I see

Payout if a block were found NOW: 0.00154952 BTC to Xxxxxxxx was no longer 0. After a few days it went back to 0. I left it for a few days and nothing happened.

I reonfigured everything and it started working just fine for a few days except for the hash rate issues but the Payout amount also dropped by half. (I believe I read in this forum that it was because of the increase in the network hash rate).

I think I noticed a pattern (Well it could be a coincidence). When this happens there is always a rash of blocks are found and I miss out completely in the payments.

I also use CGwatcher to monitor my miners. I am concerned with the line entries in bold. What those it mean? I do not have a Pool 1. During this period I upgraded my CGwatcher and Bfgminer but going back to the earlier versions doesn't help either.

In addition my CGwatcher takes long to start up my mining configs than usual. It stops responding completely.

--- log entry when I started P2Pool. I had no Pool 1.

[6/26/2014 12:29:01 AM]  BFGMiner (5052): Process started using "P2Pool mining Bitcoin" profile on port 4028.
[6/26/2014 12:30:35 AM]  BFGMiner (5052): Pool 0 (@http://127.0.0.1:9332) status is ALIVE
[6/26/2014 12:30:35 AM]  BFGMiner (5052): Current pool is Pool 0 (1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8@http://127.0.0.1:9332)
[6/26/2014 12:30:35 AM]  BFGMiner (5052): Network difficulty is now 13,462,785,540.
[6/26/2014 12:30:41 AM]  BFGMiner (5052): GPU0 (AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series) status is UNKNOWN
[6/26/2014 12:30:41 AM]  BFGMiner (5052): PXY0 status is ALIVE

[6/26/2014 8:24:33 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): Process started using "P2Pool mining Bitcoin" profile on port 4028.
[6/26/2014 8:25:35 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): Pool 0 (@http://127.0.0.1:9332) status is ALIVE
[6/26/2014 8:25:35 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): Current pool is Pool 0 (1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8@http://127.0.0.1:9332)
[6/26/2014 8:25:35 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): Network difficulty is now 13,462,785,540.
[6/26/2014 8:25:35 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): GPU0 (AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series) status is UNKNOWN
[6/26/2014 8:25:35 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): PXY0 status is ALIVE
[6/26/2014 8:32:03 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): Miner restart requested...
[6/26/2014 8:32:06 PM]  BFGMiner (4028): Process closed.


--- When the Payout was 0 and miners started acting up.

[7/2/2014 10:14:08 PM]  BFGMiner (3508): Process started using "P2Pool mining Bitcoin" profile on port 4028.
[7/2/2014 10:14:09 PM]  BFGMiner (3508): Pool 0 (@http://127.0.0.1:9332) status is DEAD
[7/2/2014 10:14:09 PM]  BFGMiner (3508): Pool 1 (@http://localhost:8332/#getcbaddr#allblocks) status is FAILOVER
[7/2/2014 10:14:09 PM]  BFGMiner (3508): Current pool is Pool 0 (1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8@http://127.0.0.1:9332)
[7/2/2014 10:14:17 PM]  BFGMiner (3508): PXY0 status is ALIVE


--- Most recent entry in CGwatcher log file.

[7/17/2014 12:53:31 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): Process started using "P2Pool mining Bitcoin" profile on port 4028.
[7/17/2014 12:54:46 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): Pool 0 (@http://127.0.0.1:9332) status is DEAD
[7/17/2014 12:54:46 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): Pool 1 (@http://localhost:8332/#getcbaddr#allblocks) status is FAILOVER
[7/17/2014 12:54:46 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): Current pool is Pool 0 (1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8@http://127.0.0.1:9332)
[7/17/2014 1:10:42 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): Pool 0 (1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8@http://127.0.0.1:9332) status is ALIVE

[7/17/2014 1:10:42 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): Network difficulty is now 17,336,581,514.
[7/17/2014 1:10:52 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): GPU0 (AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series) status is UNKNOWN
[7/17/2014 1:10:52 PM]  BFGMiner (5564): PXY0 status is ALIVE

--- Another log file

[7/17/2014 12:33:32 PM]  [d] Miner.StartMining.DeleteTemporaryBatchFile 'D:\bitminer\windows\scripts\asicminer\temp_P2PPOOL_bfgminer_asicminer_BTC.bat' deleted successfully.
[7/17/2014 12:33:32 PM]      Current pool is http://127.0.0.1:9332
[7/17/2014 12:33:32 PM]      Unauthorized pool found! Pool 1 (fdrpcuser @ http://localhost:8332/#getcbaddr#allblocks) was not added in CGWatcher, CGRemote, or the miner's config.
[7/17/2014 12:33:42 PM]  [d] Miner.SendCommand (devs) returned status of 'E' (STATUS=E,When=1405614822,Code=10,Msg=No PGAs,Description=bfgminer 4.3.0, )!
[7/17/2014 12:53:18 PM]      -- Begin CGWatcher v1.3.9.0 Process ---
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July 17, 2014, 08:32:08 PM
 #9719

When I put in the address you displayed it returns as invalid...

1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8



http://minefast.coincadence.com/miner.php?id=1CpnaoUNINvaqvaIIINqmanTZ3m8

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July 17, 2014, 09:34:40 PM
 #9720

I'm wondering,  with high variance on p2pool or another somewhat smaller pool,  is it possible to actually lose money?  Like in the long run luck is irrelevant,  but what if you have really bad luck and then the difficulty goes up 30%?

In this situation do you lose money because of high variance?
Yes you can. Consequently you can also gain money. Contrary to what people will insist on, it does NOT even out in the end because difficulty keeps rising. However luck determines if you're ahead long term or behind long term in an irretrievable way. If diff did not continually rise and rose-and-fell or stayed the same it would even out.
Your argument is based on the statement that difficulty keeps rising.  While historically this is true, it is not a guarantee of future patterns.  Yes, we have seen some insane rises in difficulty, but that is due to a number of factors including wider acceptance, general knowledge of crypto-currencies, incredible hardware advances, etc.  I don't think we can state as a fact that difficulty will forever continuously rise.
I did not argue that it will rise indefinitely. However, it's realistic to predict it will continue to rise until it levels off. Once it levels off, it is never going to fluctuate as much as it did to pre-rise diff levels. Until it levels off (and this could be years away) this issue will hold true, and all the variance experienced till that point can never be caught up on.  As I said though it's not a guaranteed loss, it's almost as likely a guaranteed win. The fact that by definition bad luck means blocks take longer means the statistical bias is towards a loss, but that statistical bias is nowhere near as large as the variance effect itself is.

Put it this way, many diffs ago, on a lucky day in mining, you could earn 10 bitcoin in one day or 1 bitcoin on a bad day with 60GH.  In today's diffs, even if they fluctuate a little instead of just going up, there is no way in an eternity you could ever make up those 9 bitcoin with 60GH unless you used your avalon as a weapon to hit someone over the head and steal their money.

The next block halving will probably be the only time we'll ever see a significant drop again (unless BTC value crashes). What effect that will have on a tight margin network (unlike the GPU days) is unpredictable.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
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