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Author Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development  (Read 349013 times)
NineEleven
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July 03, 2015, 08:29:45 PM
 #2921

one user try to use the pool
and get this

   [yacoin] (Thread 2) Unauthorized  YL5kf54wPPXKaXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z:##### [50.150.44.120]
the other are fine

Did i made some mistake on the config?

another question


[yacoin] (Thread 1) We thought a block was found but it was rejected by the daemon, share data: {"job":"138","ip":"10.0.25.37","port":3032,"worker":"YKL5qhpF6e9ZW7HWkD7TpVZ1NAYFstpxmH","height":1124989,"blockReward":75890000,"difficulty":1,"shareDiff":"3013.13008481","blockDiff":83.74288384,"blockDiffActual":0.001277815,"blockHash":"fb5757497ed4fd380eaa473e65d9bb9c2126bed7035a39b4cade31d893635a59"}


is this normal?

http://jornalbitcoin.pt/ , Noticias em Portugues
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old c coder
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July 03, 2015, 09:00:44 PM
 #2922

Increasing the block time doesn't help to solve orphans blocks problem.

The problem with orphan blocks is:

..there is malicious miner which has more than 50% of network hashrate.
He shows his 'private' chain to public chain/wallets with delay just when his chain better (in terms of found blocks) than public chain.

Almost in all cases when reorganization has happened, 'alternate' chain has more blocks than public chain.

This problem is solving automatically. When hashrate of public miners is more than hashrate of malicious miner (MM).
It was illustrated by coinmine.pl pool.
There was hashrate war between MM and 'youguqm'. So when youguqm has won there was no orphan block at all. After that the crew of MM has DDoS-ed the pool.
So feeleep and others have made wrong decisions..


First, feeleep has been an amazing supporter and friend to YACoin. His pool has been around for as long as I can remember, and he has ALWAYS been on top of things. He is actually losing YACs because of this orphan, 'reorganization of long chain' issue of late. YAC stakeholders can't thank feeleep enough!

Looking at the network hashrate right now... it is at 185 khash/s! The network block time at this moment is at 30 seconds! I've seen youguqm's hashrate hit over 50 khash/s. His hashrate is 33 khash/s at this moment, and the pool (which isn't paying out right now) is still having those orphan problems.

I hear your point. Let's say the 'malicious miner' goes away...(btw I think there is another, consistent 30 khash/s at least that isn't malicious out there) I feel I would have a difficult time solo-mining YACoin at 5-10% of the total network hashrate. Someone please tell me I am wrong. That is actually my biggest concern.

A 2-minute block time increase might be a solution. Perhaps, there might be something that can be done on the PoS side of things to help fix PoW? I have some inputs of 2000+ YAC that are taking 40+ days to stake. Groko has explained it could be an issue with my wallet getting 'overwhelmed' with too many inputs--even the ones that aren't staking? I feel a fix in terms of that could alleviate some of the PoW problems...

The solution may very well be let the 'market' of PoW fix itself.

@Joe_Bauers @ThirtyBird @Groko @senj @WindMaster @old_c_coder or any others... can you share any thoughts??
Hello Beave162 & everyone,

To get more people/computers involved in YAC or any crypto-currency, including BTC, one needs to go after the biggest audience.  See http://www.netmarketshare.com/ and in "Market Share Reports" near the top, choose "Operating Systems", then "Desktop Share by Version".

OK, what wins with ~92% of all desktops connected to the internet?  That is what one should target!  That is why I did my videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCytoaHvG3H1y9CnxZS819eQ), showing how easy it is to make a Windows version of YAC, BTC, etc.  Of course the latest version of BTC, roughly versions 9.x, 10.x, 11.x and any other *coin derived from them, now obscure the make file inside autogen machinery,  making it more difficult to tease out the minimum set of files needed to create a *coind.exe &/or *coin-qt.exe

I prefer to work with Bitcoin 0.8.6 and *coins derived from that version or older, since there was much less "confusion" about which version of gcc, which version of Qt, which version of levelDB, which version of OpenSSL (now there's a deep hole!), UPnP, QRencode,... and who knows how many more with the latest versions of Bitcoin?  Boost?, gcc?, Qt?, GMP, secp256k1, etc. etc. etc.

All with no specifications given about which version works, or doesn't, with which older or newer versions?  I tried making this argument on various bitcoin foums, but to no avail Sad  I think there are just too many Linux geeks that are burned out looking at too many text mode screens!  I did that in the 1970s and 1980s in CPM/ZCPM and DOS (LOL).  Don't mind a good .bat file here and there to ease building a Windows gcc daemon or Qt version Wink

Ron

BTC: 1DPvP6WoZzaNQ9Nxzd64hjYad1kyQzTTbx YAC: Y3ZggXDvnRJaRwtVGyGJwt6DMLN3EPQpQf 
The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution.  Paul Cezanne
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July 03, 2015, 09:16:18 PM
 #2923

...
[yacoin] (Thread 1) We thought a block was found but it was rejected by the daemon, share data: {"job":"138","ip":"10.0.25.37","port":3032,"worker":"YKL5qhpF6e9ZW7HWkD7TpVZ1NAYFstpxmH","height":1124989,"blockReward":75890000,"difficulty":1,
"shareDiff":"3013.13008481","blockDiff":83.74288384,"blockDiffActual":0.001277815,"blockHash":"fb5757497ed4fd380eaa473e65d9bb9c2126bed7035a39b4cade31d893635a59"}

is this normal?
I am not sure, but perhaps you have your wallet locked?
I believe it needs to be unlocked in order to submit blocks from rpc.

YAC: YGZRDNuey8MnN6GHVR1x7D3UY5TjDz2HCL
NineEleven
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July 03, 2015, 09:17:55 PM
 #2924

its a fresh wallet its not locked

http://jornalbitcoin.pt/ , Noticias em Portugues
Beave162
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July 03, 2015, 09:29:04 PM
 #2925

one user try to use the pool
and get this

   [yacoin] (Thread 2) Unauthorized  YL5kf54wPPXKaXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z:##### [50.150.44.120]
the other are fine

Did i made some mistake on the config?

That user was ME! And I apparently made a typo in my address. Don't make a type in your address. Now you (we) know what happens. Thanks, NineEleven.

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
NineEleven
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July 03, 2015, 09:36:53 PM
 #2926

ok thanks

lets see if we can find a block
to make sure i did it roght

http://jornalbitcoin.pt/ , Noticias em Portugues
senj
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July 03, 2015, 09:39:23 PM
 #2927

ok thanks

lets see if we can find a block
to make sure i did it roght
For such errors just grep daemon's debug.log for "ERROR". It seems (15 posts down from the top) meaningful detailed info should be there.

YAC: YGZRDNuey8MnN6GHVR1x7D3UY5TjDz2HCL
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July 03, 2015, 09:58:13 PM
 #2928

...
To get more people/computers involved in YAC or any crypto-currency, including BTC, one needs to go after the biggest audience.  See http://www.netmarketshare.com/ and in "Market Share Reports" near the top, choose "Operating Systems", then "Desktop Share by Version".

OK, what wins with ~92% of all desktops connected to the internet?  That is what one should target!  That is why I did my videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCytoaHvG3H1y9CnxZS819eQ), showing how easy it is to make a Windows version of YAC, BTC, etc.  Of course the latest version of BTC, roughly versions 9.x, 10.x, 11.x and any other *coin derived from them, now obscure the make file inside autogen machinery,  making it more difficult to tease out the minimum set of files needed to create a *coind.exe &/or *coin-qt.exe

I prefer to work with Bitcoin 0.8.6 and *coins derived from that version or older, since there was much less "confusion" about which version of gcc, which version of Qt, which version of levelDB, which version of OpenSSL (now there's a deep hole!), UPnP, QRencode,... and who knows how many more with the latest versions of Bitcoin?  Boost?, gcc?, Qt?, GMP, secp256k1, etc. etc. etc.

All with no specifications given about which version works, or doesn't, with which older or newer versions?  I tried making this argument on various bitcoin foums, but to no avail Sad  I think there are just too many Linux geeks that are burned out looking at too many text mode screens!  I did that in the 1970s and 1980s in CPM/ZCPM and DOS (LOL).  Don't mind a good .bat file here and there to ease building a Windows gcc daemon or Qt version Wink

Ron
I did not thank you yet for those videos - very helpful indeed. I am one of windows guys (but I strive to make portable code), and I must confess successfully compiling yacoin daemon under Visual Studio was a special event.
I hope the same will be possible with version 4.5.

YAC: YGZRDNuey8MnN6GHVR1x7D3UY5TjDz2HCL
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July 03, 2015, 10:21:37 PM
 #2929

I believe the chaintrust issue is the culprit with my 2000 YAC inputs not being staked? Basically, the malicious miner is building on his PoW blocks and able to ignore my PoS blocks in addition to the other PoW blocks?
I envision the YAC looking like PoW-PoS-PoW-PoS-PoW-PoS pretty solidly in the future if not the very near future. Is that wrong? I see no issue with that. By the way, that would make the PoW block time 2 minutes, right?

You are right about 2 minutes. Perhaps I have got it wrong here:

Another problem would be if rogue PoW miner would combine such PoS blocks with his private chain in order to bring his chaintrust higher (trust value of PoW block following PoS block get's doubled). That would make it possible to mine under lower PoW difficulty and use a lot of small stake PoS blocks to help build up chaintrust against primary chain mined at higher PoW difficulty but containing lower number of PoS blocks.


Perhaps each PoS block in honest branch makes next PoW difficulty higher (by extending to 2 minute block time) and that makes it possible for private solo miner to eventually catch up since he is still mining on 1 minut block time?
Could that be one of main reasons why main chain can't run away easily?

YAC: YGZRDNuey8MnN6GHVR1x7D3UY5TjDz2HCL
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July 03, 2015, 10:53:40 PM
 #2930

...
To get more people/computers involved in YAC or any crypto-currency, including BTC, one needs to go after the biggest audience.  See http://www.netmarketshare.com/ and in "Market Share Reports" near the top, choose "Operating Systems", then "Desktop Share by Version".

OK, what wins with ~92% of all desktops connected to the internet?  That is what one should target!  That is why I did my videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCytoaHvG3H1y9CnxZS819eQ), showing how easy it is to make a Windows version of YAC, BTC, etc.  Of course the latest version of BTC, roughly versions 9.x, 10.x, 11.x and any other *coin derived from them, now obscure the make file inside autogen machinery,  making it more difficult to tease out the minimum set of files needed to create a *coind.exe &/or *coin-qt.exe

I prefer to work with Bitcoin 0.8.6 and *coins derived from that version or older, since there was much less "confusion" about which version of gcc, which version of Qt, which version of levelDB, which version of OpenSSL (now there's a deep hole!), UPnP, QRencode,... and who knows how many more with the latest versions of Bitcoin?  Boost?, gcc?, Qt?, GMP, secp256k1, etc. etc. etc.

All with no specifications given about which version works, or doesn't, with which older or newer versions?  I tried making this argument on various bitcoin foums, but to no avail Sad  I think there are just too many Linux geeks that are burned out looking at too many text mode screens!  I did that in the 1970s and 1980s in CPM/ZCPM and DOS (LOL).  Don't mind a good .bat file here and there to ease building a Windows gcc daemon or Qt version Wink

Ron
I did not thank you yet for those videos - very helpful indeed. I am one of windows guys (but I strive to make portable code), and I must confess successfully compiling yacoin daemon under Visual Studio was a special event.
I hope the same will be possible with version 4.5.


Ron,
You may be the biggest motivator for me to help and promote YAC. I'm very glad you are a YAC stakeholder to say the least. Smiley

I see a multi-prong attack, if you will. I see YAC being able to bolster crypto as a whole and even compete with Bitcoin in reaching out to people by having
1) 'Cleaner', less convoluted code (as you refer to) to bring in coding enthusiasts
2) More user-friendly, easy-to-use mining tools as ThirtyBird has already done so much for to bring in blockchain transaction processors (aka miners)--not to mention feeleep with coinmine and now NineEleven stepping up too.
3) Old-fashioned promoting, marketing to get people to invest in YAC as a long-term commodity and eventually a full-fledged, accepted currency.

I think a fundamental backbone behind it all is the security of the network and associated expectations. I have thrown out the concept of a 2-min block time as a potential fix, but alenevaa is completely against it, Joe_Bauers is against it, and senj, ThirtyBird, old c coder seem to have no opinion either way, so it clearly won't happen. It was just an idea to throw out there, and it has been addressed sufficiently I think. This recent attack has shown that 1) someone or some persons have access to large (relative) amounts of resources and has an awareness/interest in YAC 2) YAC needs more stakeholders to mine more or just needs more miners in general. The attack is sort of a 'badge of honor' and a good sign that the 'strength through adversity' concept is at work as previous mentioned.

As very constructive points and playing devil's advocate, I'd expect that if I have 5%-10% of the entire network hashrate, I wouldn't have an orphan problem. I'd also expect that if the blockchain is full of PoW block after PoW block, it shouldn't take 40+ days for a 2000 YAC ("highest" priority if that means anything) input to stake. If I'm ignorant of certain details by saying that, those details are too complicated and/or not transparent enough.

senj, I understand your upcoming changes will address those expectations--thank you so much. And I'm very much looking forward to the new wallet release. I think many in crypto will be blown away by some of the features--Joe_Bauers, old c coder, Groko, senj.  

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
NineEleven
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July 04, 2015, 01:15:45 AM
 #2931

i need you help

this error
2015-07-04 02:13:06 [Pool]   [yacoin] (Thread 1) We thought a block was found but it was rejected by the daemon, share data: {"job":"1","ip":"10.0.22.59","port":3032,"worker":"YKL5qhpF6e9ZW7HWkD7TpVZ1NAYFstpxmH","height":1125098,"blockReward":76320000,"difficulty":1,"shareDiff":"421.15416530","blockDiff":80.983556096,"blockDiffActual":0.001235711,"blockHash":"24fbc4370213e36f251dc2f1535f6eb9b1144c7b07f143be850d7b8ff35d12df"}

mens blosk is FOUND, is on the wallet but not in NOMP for payment
 
I have 4 block in the wallet

waht could be the problem?

http://jornalbitcoin.pt/ , Noticias em Portugues
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July 04, 2015, 12:37:51 PM
 #2932

Please try

http://yac.erlog.pt:81/


I think everithing is working Wink

I have turned on two small miners. Hashing works ok but we need more miners (minerd with i7 CPU and cudaminer with some Nvidia GPU.)
Settings are really easy for CPU miner (minerd) or cudaminer. I have not yet tested Yacminer with this pool (amd gpu).

But why this (difficulty)

Username:your yacoin wallet address
Password:anything (what ever)
Algorithm:scrypt-jane
URL (difficulty 4):stratum+tcp://193.136.97.30:3032

Why fixed difficult 4?   My opinion is that it is far too high but for yacminer users it can not be under 1 so this is why most pools (UTC, YAC) use fixed 1 for yacminers.
(or arrange least one port for fixed 1)

BTC, BCH, UTC, YAC
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July 04, 2015, 01:11:47 PM
 #2933

Please try

http://yac.erlog.pt:81/


I think everithing is working Wink

I have turned on two small miners. Hashing works ok but we need more miners (minerd with i7 CPU and cudaminer with some Nvidia GPU.)
Settings are really easy for CPU miner (minerd) or cudaminer. I have not yet tested Yacminer with this pool (amd gpu).

But why this (difficulty)

Username:your yacoin wallet address
Password:anything (what ever)
Algorithm:scrypt-jane
URL (difficulty 4):stratum+tcp://193.136.97.30:3032

Why fixed difficult 4?   My opinion is that it is far too high but for yacminer users it can not be under 1 so this is why most pools (UTC, YAC) use fixed 1 for yacminers.
(or arrange least one port for fixed 1)


Why does what you posted say "Algorithm:scrypt-jane", while the first post of this thread says "Proof of Work: Scrypt-N SHA-3" ?

What algorithm or algorithms does this coin actually use? Has it changed since the first post of the thread without that post being updated accordingly?

-MarkM-

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July 04, 2015, 02:21:47 PM
 #2934

My friends I was using an old version of nomp

Change to new version

let's see if this time is ok

http://jornalbitcoin.pt/ , Noticias em Portugues
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July 04, 2015, 03:19:18 PM
 #2935

Please try

http://yac.erlog.pt:81/


I think everithing is working Wink

I have turned on two small miners. Hashing works ok but we need more miners (minerd with i7 CPU and cudaminer with some Nvidia GPU.)
Settings are really easy for CPU miner (minerd) or cudaminer. I have not yet tested Yacminer with this pool (amd gpu).

But why this (difficulty)

Username:your yacoin wallet address
Password:anything (what ever)
Algorithm:scrypt-jane
URL (difficulty 4):stratum+tcp://193.136.97.30:3032

Why fixed difficult 4?   My opinion is that it is far too high but for yacminer users it can not be under 1 so this is why most pools (UTC, YAC) use fixed 1 for yacminers.
(or arrange least one port for fixed 1)


Why does what you posted say "Algorithm:scrypt-jane", while the first post of this thread says "Proof of Work: Scrypt-N SHA-3" ?

What algorithm or algorithms does this coin actually use? Has it changed since the first post of the thread without that post being updated accordingly?

-MarkM-


Mining software setting (used library, not exactly true algorithm).  (CPU), minerd: -x64-corei7 -a scrypt-jane .....
Or example with Nvidia GPU, cudaminer:  --algo=scrypt-jane:YAC .....

BTC, BCH, UTC, YAC
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July 04, 2015, 03:41:07 PM
 #2936

have thrown out the concept of a 2-min block time as a potential fix, but alenevaa is completely against it, Joe_Bauers is against it, and senj, ThirtyBird, old c coder seem to have no opinion either way, so it clearly won't happen. It was just an idea to throw out there

Please keep the ideas coming! That was also my point for birdvox's ideas. We need to have more of an open discussing on updates to YAC, rather than just "that idea sucks, we're not doing it!"


Anyway, regarding the 2-minute block time change, that idea sucks, we're not doing it! Smiley  No, but really, if someone has more hashing power than the majority of the network, a block time change is irrelevant.
The fix, as mentioned before is to have more pools, miners and stakers. It looks like that has actually happened over the past 2 days, and +1 * ∞ to NineEleven for starting a new pool!

Also, I just saw your Yacoin caps, they look great! Will certainly help on the promotion side.
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July 04, 2015, 07:57:39 PM
 #2937

Please keep the ideas coming! That was also my point for birdvox's ideas. We need to have more of an open discussing on updates to YAC, rather than just "that idea sucks, we're not doing it!"  

I have new and improved YAC Hats and a promotional price for them. However, I am putting it on hold until 1) I feel more comfortable that any idea of ANY change in the block reward will not occur with YAC ever. 2) There is a wallet release date at the very least--assuming of course changes to affect the blockchain will not occur until a much later block reward to avoid the very real possibility of separate forks. I also won't be pointing any mining power to YAC until I am more comfortable.

I say that not even as a criticism. I want to indicate to potential, future stakeholders that current stakeholders are completely vested in the basic fundamentals that were laid out since inception of the coin.

Changes to the block rewards is pure and simple centralized manipulation, which crypto was created to protest to begin with. At least the recent attack--which is in itself a form of centralized manipulation--takes resources, and it will ultimately take resources to completely prevent such an occurrence in the future. With that said, I think the recent disturbance in the network has highlighted weaknesses in the blockchain trust mechanism, which senj is addressing.

I think it would be a great idea to discuss an increasing block reward structure on a different thread for a new coin. I will join in on that discussion, and of course, I'm always open to support any scrypt-chacha coin with hash power. I do absolutely love that birdvox wants to do something *most* people would find counter-intuitive. Question everything, especially 'popular' opinion!

Anyway, regarding the 2-minute block time change, that idea sucks, we're not doing it! Smiley  No, but really, if someone has more hashing power than the majority of the network, a block time change is irrelevant.

As I've said, I think the idea has been sufficiently vetted enough to know it won't be implemented.

But for intellectual honesty sake, let's be resourceful and refer to other discussions instead of 'reinventing the wheel'
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232297.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211535.40

If I find a block, it takes a few seconds (perhaps 10s of seconds?) to get to you and propagate the network and by that time, I already have a headstart on the next PoW block. That affect is multiplied when I come in at a large hashrate and reduce the block time to 50 seconds or even lower. Also, we should consider that even at 1-minute average expected block time, blocks can be found much quicker than that.

I thought a huge purpose of PoS was for network security. I like the idea that someone could 'selfish mine' all they want, but they still have to wait for a PoS block to propagate the network before the PoW block gets added. Right now, it seems PoW is building on top of PoW and is keeping PoS blocks out. It isn't that there aren't enough PoS inputs because I see my PoS inputs not getting accepted all the time. I understand senj will fix this issue. I understand PoW blocks should eventually be separated by 2 minutes on average anyway with a healthy PoS network.

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
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July 04, 2015, 07:57:53 PM
 #2938

it seems UNOMP is broken for scriptjane Cry


https://github.com/UNOMP/unified-node-open-mining-portal/issues/50

Tomorow i will look into de c code to try to fix myself

http://jornalbitcoin.pt/ , Noticias em Portugues
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July 04, 2015, 08:19:44 PM
 #2939

Please try

http://yac.erlog.pt:81/


I think everithing is working Wink

I have turned on two small miners. Hashing works ok but we need more miners (minerd with i7 CPU and cudaminer with some Nvidia GPU.)
Settings are really easy for CPU miner (minerd) or cudaminer. I have not yet tested Yacminer with this pool (amd gpu).

But why this (difficulty)

Username:your yacoin wallet address
Password:anything (what ever)
Algorithm:scrypt-jane
URL (difficulty 4):stratum+tcp://193.136.97.30:3032

Why fixed difficult 4?   My opinion is that it is far too high but for yacminer users it can not be under 1 so this is why most pools (UTC, YAC) use fixed 1 for yacminers.
(or arrange least one port for fixed 1)


Why does what you posted say "Algorithm:scrypt-jane", while the first post of this thread says "Proof of Work: Scrypt-N SHA-3" ?

What algorithm or algorithms does this coin actually use? Has it changed since the first post of the thread without that post being updated accordingly?

-MarkM-


Hasn't changed at all since it was introduced. Putting a name to a coin's algorithm just isn't as straightforward as one would think.

Note that scrypt-jane isn't a hashing algorithm, it's a generic scrypt library that supports many different variations of scrypt, including scrypt+salsa20/8 as used by Litecoin.  I've noticed quite a few people refer to the scrypt variant used by YAC as "scrypt-jane", but that's actually wrong.

So what's the name for it? Roll Eyes We shall give it a name, scrypt-chacha?

That's probably the closest option at this point.  In that scenario, scrypt-salsa would accurately refer to the algorithm used by Litecoin, and scrypt-chacha would accurately refer to the algorithm used by YAC.  It's not perfect, as it describes the choice of mixing algorithm but not the choice of hash.  But until someone does something strange like create an altcoin that uses chacha20/8 combined with SHA256 instead of Keccak512, I think "scrypt-chacha" is probably concise enough for now.

So, unless anyone has a different idea, let's indeed call it scrypt-chacha and correct people that call it scrypt-jane (since that's not correct regardless what we decide it should be called!).  Smiley

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
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July 05, 2015, 10:06:41 AM
 #2940

it seems UNOMP is broken for scriptjane Cry


https://github.com/UNOMP/unified-node-open-mining-portal/issues/50

Tomorow i will look into de c code to try to fix myself


I have used 3 workers, 1 i7 CPU (around same hashing power what one 750Ti when N=17) and one rig with Nvidia 3x750Ti  and one rig with Radeon (4x r7 240  4G)

Radeon rig reported 4 blocks (possible also Nvidia rig but this I,m not sure because cudaminer poor information on the screen) but in pool statistics nothing, not founded, not orphans, just 0.







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