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Author Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development  (Read 351453 times)
Groko
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August 29, 2014, 02:28:19 AM
 #2461

Wow I love all the discussion! So much drama! If only we had some way of ... hmmmm ...  conceptualizing
the inflation rate of YACoin. Wait! I know! A bunch of graphical charts!

... Introducing ...

... Drum Roll ....

http://explore.grokonet.com/?inflation=1

I present a collection of brand new YACoin inflation charts for all to enjoy. And may all your fears of
inflation be tamed. These charts are updated once every minute. Amazing!
According to my calculations, YACoin inflation is going down quite dramatically and steadily.
After all, YACoin is only 1.3 years old.

I also present ...

http://explore.grokonet.com/?volume=1

Which is a collection of volume charts also updated every minute. I think they give a kind of assurance
that people are doing what YACoin was designed to do. That is exchanging currency. Not just mining it.
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Thirtybird
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August 29, 2014, 12:35:52 PM
 #2462

Wow I love all the discussion! So much drama! If only we had some way of ... hmmmm ...  conceptualizing
the inflation rate of YACoin. Wait! I know! A bunch of graphical charts!

... Introducing ...

... Drum Roll ....

http://explore.grokonet.com/?inflation=1

I present a collection of brand new YACoin inflation charts for all to enjoy. And may all your fears of
inflation be tamed. These charts are updated once every minute. Amazing!
According to my calculations, YACoin inflation is going down quite dramatically and steadily.
After all, YACoin is only 1.3 years old.

I also present ...

http://explore.grokonet.com/?volume=1

Which is a collection of volume charts also updated every minute. I think they give a kind of assurance
that people are doing what YACoin was designed to do. That is exchanging currency. Not just mining it.


But, but but.... I was promised 100% inflation! 

Actually, getting 502 bad gateway, so I didn't get to look yet...

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
Groko
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August 29, 2014, 07:11:53 PM
 #2463



But, but but.... I was promised 100% inflation! 

Actually, getting 502 bad gateway, so I didn't get to look yet...

My server ran out of memory or something and crashed. Sorry for the kill joy. I shifted things
around so hopefully that won't keep happening. It's back up for now.

From the charts you can see that back in November inflation was hovering around %300. Now it
is hovering around %100. That's a pretty dramatic drop if you ask me.
mhps
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August 30, 2014, 05:26:27 AM
 #2464

For anyone else who might also have this concept dreadfully confused...

If you want to say that 'inflation' (new money created), steals value from the money already in existence, then you have to ASSUME EVERYTHING ANYTHING EVER is a CONSTANT. Even if you make such a mindless approach, then still the total marketcap would be a constant, which is obviously proven otherwise.

[facepalm] Either I am talking to someone who hasn't grasped that "driving at 60 miles per hours" doesn't mean one has to drive at a CONSTANT speed, or I have wasted time trying to wake up someone pretending to sleep.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
mhps
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August 30, 2014, 06:40:30 AM
 #2465

From the charts you can see that back in November inflation was hovering around %300. Now it
is hovering around %100. That's a pretty dramatic drop if you ask me.

Super, Groko. A chart is better than one thousand words.

The "last year" chart shows that inflation dropped down as money supply increases in an approximate 1/x relation. This is because that the money creation rate has been more or less constant, so the down trend of inflation is mainly due to increased money supply. Inflation has decreased a lot but the speed of decrease inevitablly slows down, as it gets more and more difficult to increase money supply by hte same percentage as the base grows.
 
If we just wait, not considering POS, inflation will go down to ~50% pa next year. But every holder of YAC will be worth 50% lower in terms of owning how many percent of YAC money supply. If we wait for 9 years, inflation will go down to 10% (inflation of bitcoin is 10% today), but  the value of YAC asset you own today will take a 90% hair cut because the money supply will be 10 times bigger. It will take about 30 years before POW inflation equals to that of POS.  Before inflation goes down, YAC will have downward pressure from miners who have huge loads ready to dump.

Anyway high inflation sacrifices early owners' interest and favors late comers. The community has to understand this.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
aso118
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August 30, 2014, 05:09:35 PM
 #2466

It will take about 30 years before POW inflation equals to that of POS.

Is that a bad thing?  This is assuming that YAC doesn't gain more acceptance/mining power and the block reward doesn't drop (ie below 25 coins per block), right?

I guess what I'm missing is; why is the coin distribution a problem now?  AFAIK its been unchanged since the initial launch (~1.3 years ago).

Hilux74
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August 30, 2014, 06:05:36 PM
 #2467

From the charts you can see that back in November inflation was hovering around %300. Now it
is hovering around %100. That's a pretty dramatic drop if you ask me.

Super, Groko. A chart is better than one thousand words.

The "last year" chart shows that inflation dropped down as money supply increases in an approximate 1/x relation. This is because that the money creation rate has been more or less constant, so the down trend of inflation is mainly due to increased money supply. Inflation has decreased a lot but the speed of decrease inevitablly slows down, as it gets more and more difficult to increase money supply by hte same percentage as the base grows.
 
If we just wait, not considering POS, inflation will go down to ~50% pa next year. But every holder of YAC will be worth 50% lower in terms of owning how many percent of YAC money supply. If we wait for 9 years, inflation will go down to 10% (inflation of bitcoin is 10% today), but  the value of YAC asset you own today will take a 90% hair cut because the money supply will be 10 times bigger. It will take about 30 years before POW inflation equals to that of POS.  Before inflation goes down, YAC will have downward pressure from miners who have huge loads ready to dump.

Anyway high inflation sacrifices early owners' interest and favors late comers. The community has to understand this.


Distribution looks exactly as planned.

If you bought a pile of YAC early on of course your % holding will decline as time goes on and the total amount of YAC increases.  If you are a supporter of YAC you shouldn't just have bought once and sit on it, you should be continually mining thereby increasing your actual amount of YAC (so % may stay ~ the same)(which also supports the network...you know that little thing of some importance...) or keep buying.  YAC wasn't released like a company stock offering with a fixed total number on day1.

Only reason miners today are getting a great number of YAC/day than 6 months ago is that there are fewer miners.  That isn't a problem with teh code that is a side effect of there being 100000 coins and YAC being somewhat out of teh headlines.  There is a full pie to share each day to however many miners are mining.  If more miners return then individuals get less.

If you want to support a coin where only the first wave of miners get a a majority of the rewards then you should just stick with Bitcoin or Litecoin.

YAC and the scrypt-jane algo is pretty great as the algo has seen the rise and fall of different mining equipment allowing different groups of miners to come and go.  Now some of the best mining equipment are cheap crappy GPUs that happen to have a fair amount of memory...that's a great equalizer in comparison to the current ridiculous arms race of SHA and SCRYPT mining.  Soon CPUs might even get back in the game so there might be further surprises ahead.  I like it!
Thirtybird
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August 31, 2014, 02:29:00 AM
 #2468

YAC and the scrypt-jane algo is pretty great as the algo has seen the rise and fall of different mining equipment allowing different groups of miners to come and go.  Now some of the best mining equipment are cheap crappy GPUs that happen to have a fair amount of memory...that's a great equalizer in comparison to the current ridiculous arms race of SHA and SCRYPT mining.  Soon CPUs might even get back in the game so there might be further surprises ahead.  I like it!

This is a man who gets it Smiley  Mining should not be something only the elite can accomplish by spending truckloads of cash.  K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sam)

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
ivanlabrie
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August 31, 2014, 03:52:40 AM
 #2469

Amen!
aso118
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August 31, 2014, 04:19:20 AM
 #2470

Does this mean we can go back to discussing other (more important) things?  Like the next version of the wallet? (btw - the last update blew my mind; the POS upgrades were amazing!)

For the next version, we might want to consider adding some 'POS indicators' (such as the 'green arrow' as seen in Blackcoin and Reddcoin) that helps the minter estimate their time until a stake.  I'm not suggesting we 'copy' it (although that's what any other coin developer would do), but could we create something even BETTER then what everyone's using?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg8349070#msg8349070

On a side note....  A shutout to Groko.  The charts are very useful and I love what you've done with your block explorer.  I use it quite often.  I hope there is more development work to come!  Smiley

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September 01, 2014, 03:36:36 AM
 #2471

It will take about 30 years before POW inflation equals to that of POS.

Is that a bad thing?  This is assuming that YAC doesn't gain more acceptance/mining power and the block reward doesn't drop (ie below 25 coins per block), right?

That assumes the block rewards to be 50-60 like it is now. If reward drops down, it will take longer.

Quote
I guess what I'm missing is; why is the coin distribution a problem now?  AFAIK its been unchanged since the initial launch (~1.3 years ago).

The technical decisions were made at pocopoco's whim. He has abandoned the coin since the initial period, showing his confidence in his handiwork. I thought the community might want to review the decisions after a while instead of keeping holding pocopoco's Yet Another random decision as gospel?

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
mhps
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September 01, 2014, 03:40:22 AM
 #2472

YAC and the scrypt-jane algo is pretty great as the algo has seen the rise and fall of different mining equipment allowing different groups of miners to come and go.  Now some of the best mining equipment are cheap crappy GPUs that happen to have a fair amount of memory...that's a great equalizer in comparison to the current ridiculous arms race of SHA and SCRYPT mining.  Soon CPUs might even get back in the game so there might be further surprises ahead.  I like it!

This is a man who gets it Smiley  Mining should not be something only the elite can accomplish by spending truckloads of cash.  K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sam)


POW algorithm and inflation are two separate issues.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
Beave162
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September 01, 2014, 06:29:40 AM
 #2473

Does this mean we can go back to discussing other (more important) things?  Like the next version of the wallet? (btw - the last update blew my mind; the POS upgrades were amazing!)

For the next version, we might want to consider adding some 'POS indicators' (such as the 'green arrow' as seen in Blackcoin and Reddcoin) that helps the minter estimate their time until a stake.  I'm not suggesting we 'copy' it (although that's what any other coin developer would do), but could we create something even BETTER then what everyone's using?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206577.msg8349070#msg8349070

On a side note....  A shutout to Groko.  The charts are very useful and I love what you've done with your block explorer.  I use it quite often.  I hope there is more development work to come!  Smiley

I'm pretty certain coin-control was created initially for Bitcoin. It just happened to be the only thing practical to manage PoS with PeerCoin and others. I mean it doesn't make much sense for someone to click on 'Send Coins' then 'Inputs' to guesstimate when PoS will generate more coins next. Perhaps an 'Interest Schedule' tab would be beneficial? I think it would be good to think about, and I agree the goal would be to make it better than what is already out there. At this time, I personally am having a hard time envisioning an extremely user-friendly way to present such a feature in the wallet.

I think a frustrating hurdle for very unsavvy people is trying to understand POS isn't a set schedule of earning interest like with a CD at the bank.

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
svetliopi44
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September 01, 2014, 07:31:30 AM
 #2474

Hello, is there some with R9 280x
Can you share a bat file and what speed you have.
How many GB of RAM should have 1 RIG.

Thirtybird is the GPU guru.  He made a site to help write config files/settings.  I find it very useful.  http://www.ultracoin.net/configgen_raw.html




I tried all the settings, but get more than 700 K of the GPU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System

CPU   1610 2.60/Gh     
RAM  8 GB
GPU  3 x 7970
Win 8.1  64 bit
PSU Corsair 1200

Can someone please help me.
Thanks .... Smiley

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September 01, 2014, 01:26:55 PM
 #2475

YAC and the scrypt-jane algo is pretty great as the algo has seen the rise and fall of different mining equipment allowing different groups of miners to come and go.  Now some of the best mining equipment are cheap crappy GPUs that happen to have a fair amount of memory...that's a great equalizer in comparison to the current ridiculous arms race of SHA and SCRYPT mining.  Soon CPUs might even get back in the game so there might be further surprises ahead.  I like it!

This is a man who gets it Smiley  Mining should not be something only the elite can accomplish by spending truckloads of cash.  K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sam)


POW algorithm and inflation are two separate issues.

Who was talking about inflation?  or are you trolling?

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
Thirtybird
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September 01, 2014, 01:28:10 PM
 #2476

Hello, is there some with R9 280x
Can you share a bat file and what speed you have.
How many GB of RAM should have 1 RIG.

Thirtybird is the GPU guru.  He made a site to help write config files/settings.  I find it very useful.  http://www.ultracoin.net/configgen_raw.html




I tried all the settings, but get more than 700 K of the GPU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System

CPU   1610 2.60/Gh     
RAM  8 GB
GPU  3 x 7970
Win 8.1  64 bit
PSU Corsair 1200

Can someone please help me.
Thanks .... Smiley


You need to post your command line to start and how much memory your GPU's have.

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
svetliopi44
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September 01, 2014, 02:06:09 PM
 #2477

Hello, is there some with R9 280x
Can you share a bat file and what speed you have.
How many GB of RAM should have 1 RIG.

Thirtybird is the GPU guru.  He made a site to help write config files/settings.  I find it very useful.  http://www.ultracoin.net/configgen_raw.html




I tried all the settings, but get more than 700 K of the GPU.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System

CPU   1610 2.60/Gh     
RAM  8 GB
GPU  3 x 7970
Win 8.1  64 bit
PSU Corsair 1200

Can someone please help me.
Thanks .... Smiley


You need to post your command line to start and how much memory your GPU's have.

With these settings, I have 900 K GPU
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
yacminer --scrypt-chacha -R 2560 -g 1  --buffer-size 2560 --lookup-gap 8 --worksize 256 --gpu-engine 1020 --gpu-memclock 1500 --temp-cutoff 95 --gpu-fan 0-100 --auto-gpu --temp-target 85 --temp-overheat 95
3GB memory GPU
Saphhire 7970


barliman
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September 01, 2014, 10:21:34 PM
 #2478

Any body else got a problem with their Cryptsy wallet? I get a 'our wallet is currently offline while etc'.
mhps
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September 02, 2014, 02:38:36 AM
 #2479


For the next version, we might want to consider adding some 'POS indicators' (such as the 'green arrow' as seen in Blackcoin and Reddcoin) that helps the minter estimate their time until a stake.  I'm not suggesting we 'copy' it (although that's what any other coin developer would do), but could we create something even BETTER then what everyone's using?

I'm pretty certain coin-control was created initially for Bitcoin. It just happened to be the only thing practical to manage PoS with PeerCoin and others. I mean it doesn't make much sense for someone to click on 'Send Coins' then 'Inputs' to guesstimate when PoS will generate more coins next. Perhaps an 'Interest Schedule' tab would be beneficial? I think it would be good to think about, and I agree the goal would be to make it better than what is already out there. At this time, I personally am having a hard time envisioning an extremely user-friendly way to present such a feature in the wallet.

I think a frustrating hurdle for very unsavvy people is trying to understand POS isn't a set schedule of earning interest like with a CD at the bank.

The next release of Peerunity (Peercoin community wallet) will have a minting tab that tells the probability of every unspent output to find a block in the next week/month etc.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
mhps
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September 02, 2014, 02:46:35 AM
 #2480

YAC and the scrypt-jane algo is pretty great as the algo has seen the rise and fall of different mining equipment allowing different groups of miners to come and go.  Now some of the best mining equipment are cheap crappy GPUs that happen to have a fair amount of memory...that's a great equalizer in comparison to the current ridiculous arms race of SHA and SCRYPT mining.  Soon CPUs might even get back in the game so there might be further surprises ahead.  I like it!

This is a man who gets it Smiley  Mining should not be something only the elite can accomplish by spending truckloads of cash.  K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sam)


POW algorithm and inflation are two separate issues.

Who was talking about inflation?  or are you trolling?

Well many of the community have been talking about inflation in the last month, including you.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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