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Author Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development  (Read 323106 times)
mhps
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March 25, 2014, 05:12:43 AM
 #1961

I personally don't think we (YACoin) should force people to keep their clients open all the time. And I am at a complete loss how POS is supposed to be some kind of security utopia, especially when POS it nearly killed us. We neutered POS at block 420000, so It's behaving itself nicely now.

From what I have read, the problem YAC had with POS is YAC (and its offsprings) specific. POS promises to offer solutions to problems with POW that will probably have pure POW coins killed. POS is very complex, however.

I think the problem is actually inherited from PPCoin. I seem to remember the code that calculate trust score in YAC was the same as what I saw in PPC (I'm not familiar with programming though  Tongue). The trust score issue just shows itself more clearly in YACoin because of wallet performance problems and having longer POW chains for POS block to orphan.

If PPC had this problem it would have been well known. Killerstorm said PPC didn't have the problem because PPC used the checkpoint. My impression is that checkpoint in PPC is seldom if ever used. So I guess I don't know well enough to tell.

Quote

I've always assumed interest paid is capped at 90 days because that's what I heard about PPCoin. Thank you for going through the code to find out.  Smiley Does the probability of finding POS block increase linearly with days between 30 and 90 but is independent of the quantity of coins in the chunk?

In PPC it is proportional to coin days, the number of coins in the stake multiplied by the number of days. Since there are only 60 POS blocks available at maximum every hour, if you only have small stakes your chance of getting one block is small. This discourage small stake holders from supporting the network by trying to find POS blocks.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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mhps
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March 25, 2014, 05:15:39 AM
 #1962

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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March 25, 2014, 06:57:11 AM
 #1963

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

Yes, you can! But I want "to choose" too.

I'd like to have an option in wallet. You set the manual "threshold". After that splitted amount will never be less than "threshold". In another words, output will be splitted only if amount in PoS block greater than 2x"threshold".

It does make sense because if you have too many transaction in wallet for PoS you need more powerful CPU.

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March 26, 2014, 09:49:09 PM
 #1964

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

Yes, you can! But I want "to choose" too.

I'd like to have an option in wallet. You set the manual "threshold". After that splitted amount will never be less than "threshold". In another words, output will be splitted only if amount in PoS block greater than 2x"threshold".

It does make sense because if you have too many transaction in wallet for PoS you need more powerful CPU.

you can find the relevant stake generation code here: https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/blob/master/src/wallet.cpp#L1376

the nStakeSplitAge variable is set to 90 days and it seems like it's pretty important for some reason... (no idea why)
next at line #1475 the pos reward gets split into 2 outputs if the stake was younger than nStakeSplitAge (90 days)

0/10 would not recommend fiddling with the nStakeSplitAge variable without knowing exactly WHY that particular value was chosen in the first place (could be just a troll and/or a cool backdoor lol)

GPG key ID: 5E4F108A || BTC: 1hoardyponb9AMWhyA28DZb5n5g2bRY8v
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March 27, 2014, 12:50:54 AM
 #1965

Hi all,

I have a question. How can I do POS that is not split into two. Meaning if I have 1,000 YAC it is not split in two 500 YAC with the Stake added to each I see these POS all the time on the blockchain were the address is kept whole and the stake is added to the one address.

I would love to be able to do this, but have no idea if it is a special wallet or what. Help!!!

The idea is to have a lot of stakes competing for new POS blocks.

If finding POS blocks doesn't happen often, you can just manually send the outputs to one address after they become spendable again.

Yes, you can! But I want "to choose" too.

I'd like to have an option in wallet. You set the manual "threshold". After that splitted amount will never be less than "threshold". In another words, output will be splitted only if amount in PoS block greater than 2x"threshold".

It does make sense because if you have too many transaction in wallet for PoS you need more powerful CPU.

you can find the relevant stake generation code here: https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/blob/master/src/wallet.cpp#L1376

the nStakeSplitAge variable is set to 90 days and it seems like it's pretty important for some reason... (no idea why)
next at line #1475 the pos reward gets split into 2 outputs if the stake was younger than nStakeSplitAge (90 days)

0/10 would not recommend fiddling with the nStakeSplitAge variable without knowing exactly WHY that particular value was chosen in the first place (could be just a troll and/or a cool backdoor lol)
I have looked at that comment with bewilderment.
Code:
// The following split & combine thresholds are important to security
// Should not be adjusted if you don't understand the consequences
There doesn't seem to be anything on the block validation side to enforce a convention on splitting and combining. Some have probably already figured this out and made personal modifications to the code. I'm already generating about 10 POS blocks a day and each one gives me like 0.2 YAC which seems so pointless. After they mature, I rake up a bunch using coin control and send them to myself. Unfortunately I suppose I have come the conclusion that the whole idea:
Code:
POS creates security because stakeholders won't want to damage a coin they own.
is a bunch rubbish. That is like saying anybody who owns some US dollars would never attack the US government.
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March 27, 2014, 01:23:25 AM
 #1966

Code:
// The following split & combine thresholds are important to security
// Should not be adjusted if you don't understand the consequences

Larger stakes have better chance to find POS blocks. If they are not splitted, due to compounding, they will grow at a steeper exponential rate relative to other stakes, and eventually dominate money base, not to say gaining 51%.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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March 27, 2014, 08:53:08 PM
 #1967

http://forum.yacoin.org/yaucet/

Faucet rate has been upped to 2 YACs. I'm stopping all giveaways and offering that link instead.
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March 31, 2014, 11:56:32 PM
 #1968

Somehow I missed that someone launched an alt named "YACCoin" to cause confusion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482232.0
http://www.yaccoin.org/

LOL, kinda a dick move on that dev's part to name it in a way to intentionally cause confusion with YACoin.  First time I noticed it was while browsing in the alt marketplace section looking to see if anyone wanted to sell me around 100K YAC or so, and didn't immediately notice the extra "C" in the name of some of the postings over there.
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April 01, 2014, 01:17:47 AM
 #1969

Somehow I missed that someone launched an alt named "YACCoin" to cause confusion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482232.0
http://www.yaccoin.org/

LOL, kinda a dick move on that dev's part to name it in a way to intentionally cause confusion with YACoin.  First time I noticed it was while browsing in the alt marketplace section looking to see if anyone wanted to sell me around 100K YAC or so, and didn't immediately notice the extra "C" in the name of some of the postings over there.

I didn't see anything to suggest it was intentional -heck the kid probably never heard of the original - it's so 2013 and all Wink

good to hear from you WM.  how you been?

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
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April 01, 2014, 01:34:27 AM
 #1970

Care to read this guys?

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

Tell me what you think about the so called "security issues" with this coin's algo...I got kinda pissed off when reading that thread, stupid knc bribed beeyetches lol
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April 01, 2014, 08:59:27 PM
 #1971

Yeah warren explained that slower PoW causes delays in block propagation. Causing more orphans might be true for Yacoin. I personally believe that yacoin's high memory, sha-3, 60 sec block seems inefficient today but will get better in future.

Comparing the next wave of scrypt-N with Vertcoin and Yacoin we have 2 respectable coins. Their ideologies are different enough that they don't have to attack each other but compete on features and implementation. I can't promise that either will hit big because 3rd wave can't be as big as first 2. If Peercoin becomes valuable I'm happy too.
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April 01, 2014, 09:25:36 PM
 #1972

Care to read this guys?

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

Tell me what you think about the so called "security issues" with this coin's algo...I got kinda pissed off when reading that thread, stupid knc bribed beeyetches lol

I have one thought... computer-types know very little of economics--no offence anyone!--which is why bitcoin is such a miracle. I am optimistic of the future of YACoin (not stupid YACCoin!), but asics are simply a reflection of success for the scrypt coins.

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
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April 02, 2014, 03:54:21 PM
 #1973

In my opinion, ASIC's are esentially tools for the crypto-coin 1%'ers. I have nothing against the concept or
ingenuity of using them, but the simple fact is, most (the 99% Smiley) can't afford them. The benefit of the "ASIC-proofness" of Yacoin is that it will always remain a relatively fair coin.
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April 02, 2014, 05:53:07 PM
 #1974

In my opinion, ASIC's are esentially tools for the crypto-coin 1%'ers. I have nothing against the concept or
ingenuity of using them, but the simple fact is, most (the 99% Smiley) can't afford them. The benefit of the "ASIC-proofness" of Yacoin is that it will always remain a relatively fair coin.

Crypto is a great lesson on 'fiat'. Value of money is completely based on perception, acceptance, which is now mostly understood by the crypto community but not by probably 95% of the world's population. The scrypt ASICs never would have came about if scrypt coins didn't have that acceptance, so it just reflects the success. My YACoin mining rig is by no means cheap. And I wonder the percentage of GPU farms out there right now were originally built for mining bitcoin. The problem with scrypt ASICs will be the tendency of the '1%' to mine and dump the most profitable scrypt coin for BTC. The dishonesty and incompetence of the ASIC companies could be the worst part of it all.

What is so beautiful about YACoin is that with each NFactor change, either the people holding YAC benefit immensely, and/or newcomers are given the opportunity to enter the market with different, accessible hardware. I think of it as all the other coins are running sprints while YACoin is running a marathon in terms of wider acceptace (which is most important). There definitely is a negative perception of ASICs, so in that sense, there is a benefit in being MUCH more ASIC resistant yet not just a CPU (botnet) coin.

I think the one main issue is the perception of an unfair beginning with YACoin. I think that perception will be overcome over time. I mean just look at how the connotation of 'premine' has transformed in just the last few months. YAC is such a profitable coin for a wide range of hardware and setups. It also helps that the community is unmatched. No one left here gets disenchated with price drops.

YaCoin: YL5kf54wPPXKsXd5T18xCaNkyUsS1DgY7z 
BitCoin: 14PFbLyUdTyxZg3V8hnvj5VXkx3dhthmDj
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April 02, 2014, 07:52:18 PM
 #1975

Big +1, I'm mining yac on lower end hardware just fine...looking forward to other coins to reach higher n factors too.
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April 03, 2014, 01:35:10 AM
 #1976

What is so beautiful about YACoin is that with each NFactor change, either the people holding YAC benefit immensely, and/or newcomers are given the opportunity to enter the market with different, accessible hardware. I think of it as all the other coins are running sprints while YACoin is running a marathon in terms of wider acceptace (which is most important). There definitely is a negative perception of ASICs, so in that sense, there is a benefit in being MUCH more ASIC resistant yet not just a CPU (botnet) coin.

Which are the other coins using Nfactors ?

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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April 03, 2014, 01:36:00 AM
 #1977

What is so beautiful about YACoin is that with each NFactor change, either the people holding YAC benefit immensely, and/or newcomers are given the opportunity to enter the market with different, accessible hardware. I think of it as all the other coins are running sprints while YACoin is running a marathon in terms of wider acceptace (which is most important). There definitely is a negative perception of ASICs, so in that sense, there is a benefit in being MUCH more ASIC resistant yet not just a CPU (botnet) coin.

Which are the other coins using Nfactors ?

Check out the NFactor Google Doc linked in my signature - all of the good ones, and some of the not-so-good ones, are listed in it.

YACMiner: https://github.com/Thirtybird/YACMiner  N-Factor information : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj3vcsuY-JFNdC1ITWJrSG9VeWp6QXppbVgxcm0tbGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
BTC: 183eSsaxG9y6m2ZhrDhHueoKnZWmbm6jfC  YAC: Y4FKiwKKYGQzcqn3M3u6mJoded6ri1UWHa
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April 03, 2014, 03:31:11 AM
 #1978

Wow, page 100! 

I've finally gotten around to releasing the windows builds for testing_0.4.3 which includes the Qt stake minting function:  https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/releases/tag/testing_0.4.3
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April 03, 2014, 08:31:04 AM
 #1979


Check out the NFactor Google Doc linked in my signature - all of the good ones, and some of the not-so-good ones, are listed in it.


Thanks. I see there a lot of copycat coins from China. Someone must have made a "How to copy Yacoin" tutorial in Chinese.

BTC 1HxvAEC4nj37hyenz9DwsyrMMnkwzpbzno PPC PU6zS8RRBWP2UxhuRFengGsu8n4tEYB5xV XPM AJAgBpPjGQoL38mrtW91dVqhbMHqu25vfG
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April 03, 2014, 12:52:08 PM
 #1980

If anyone has been able to successfully compile YAC on ARM, please weigh in here:  https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/issues/29
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