[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[wiser]

Hunterbunter's role and proposed changes were made clear months ago by him and by UTB. He put quite a bit of time into information and suggestions, and there were comments by people posting recently claiming not to know.

I missed all that. Life got in the way. As far as I know I was merely asking questions. I'd be happy to be pointed to a summary article (on the Devtome?) outlining all the changes and plans for the future.

Sidhujag, myself and others proposed changes to alter the dynamics and avoid reaching an inevitable stasis. Many put a lot of effort into various working aspects with their own constructive opinions. They were dismissed by the few, largely out of economic ignorance and personal greed. Hopefully recent changes and renewed input by HB, Nova and others can turn things around, and personally I don't have a lot of time for admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input, then moan about it.

The simple ethos of Devcoin is something beyond easy gain or skewed monetary advantage of a pyramid like most cryptos. Making it a success requires adhering to that ethos of community involvement and thinking further forward than the latest receiver file.

The only people I've heard "moaning" were people who continued to work as admins and who for whatever reason stopped getting paid. That seems reasonable. I know I "moaned" about not being informed of those changes via PM which would affect my role as admin even though I was receiving PM correspondence in relation to specific admin duties. That seems reasonable too, imo.

Just some feedback: throwing out a blanket statement about "admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input" is a real turnoff. I'm assuming it wasn't directed at me personally, but it's hard to not feel accused nonetheless. I can't imagine that is very good for what Devcoin stands for and is trying to accomplish in the world.

A suggestion: if someone asks a question, please just answer it. If the answer is buried earlier in the thread and people are still asking about it, that means an FAQ article needs to be written and the link posted on a regular basis as well as the front page of the Devtome. There's a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it.

[weisoq]

I missed all that. Life got in the way. As far as I know I was merely asking questions. I'd be happy to be pointed to a summary article (on the Devtome?) outlining all the changes and plans for the future.

The only people I've heard "moaning" were people who continued to work as admins and who for whatever reason stopped getting paid. That seems reasonable. I know I "moaned" about not being informed of those changes via PM which would affect my role as admin even though I was receiving PM correspondence in relation to specific admin duties. That seems reasonable too, imo.

Just some feedback: throwing out a blanket statement about "admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input" is a real turnoff. I'm assuming it wasn't directed at me personally, but it's hard to not feel accused nonetheless. I can't imagine that is very good for what Devcoin stands for and is trying to accomplish in the world.

A suggestion: if someone asks a question, please just answer it. If the answer is buried earlier in the thread and people are still asking about it, that means an FAQ article needs to be written and the link posted on a regular basis as well as the front page of the Devtome. There's a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it.

You're an admin, someone who should strive to be a proactive informer not the informed, and claiming lost earnings on those terms. An objective observer might conclude there's an inherent conflict in pursuing that angle while also stating fundamental information was missed because life got in the way. You were also party to lengthy discussions on coinzen about various changes and plans. I know this because I was also involved in them. Whether you're turned-off by honest comments by someone who isn't an admin is a matter for your logic or insecurities not mine. And whether you should feel accused is a matter for your conscience not mine.

However I won't continue as getting personal wouldn't make for a pleasant exchange and there's no upside for either of us in that. But perhaps you should ask yourself what it is you think Devcoin stands for and is trying to accomplish, rather than throwing out that defensive and patronising rebuke. If it incorporates 'a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it' then we still have very different perspectives and ideals, and in my opinion gets to the core of historical problems.

[wiser]

If it incorporates 'a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it' then we still have very different perspectives and ideals, and in my opinion gets to the core of historical problems.

I can't be the one to write that article right now because I'm not in the know. Not anymore I know I've been involved in discussions before, but I do not know what the current state of affairs is. I'm trying to find out. But no one else here seems to know, or if they know, they're not sharing.

I figured out what happened. When the changes came I did get sent a PM through CoinZen, but it never forwarded to my email so I never saw it. And I wasn't active on the forum to see that I had a message there. It looks like everything has moved over to CoinZen, so I'm going to have to dig through there to figure things out--unless you'd like to fill me in. My current admin duties do not necessarily require me to know the latest developments in order to do my duties.

I agree with you that there is no benefit to getting personal here. This thread is going to be someone's first impression of Devcoin, because Bitcoin Talk is still considered the go to forum for all things crypto including alt coins. For this reason, (and this is a general recommendation) despite how one might feel about whether an admin who asks a question should have done homework or is motivated by greed or whatever, it's still more professional to just answer a question that someone asks. And the answer can include pointing to a link (a CoinZen thread, even) where the answer is posted so as not to repeat things too much. But there should be a straight answer. I was really speaking to that when I gave my feedback and suggestion.

[weisoq]

If it incorporates 'a built in incentive for someone in the know to write that article, invoice it, and post it' then we still have very different perspectives and ideals, and in my opinion gets to the core of historical problems.

I can't be the one to write that article right now because I'm not in the know. Not anymore I know I've been involved in discussions before, but I do not know what the current state of affairs is. I'm trying to find out. But no one else here seems to know, or if they know, they're not sharing.

I figured out what happened. When the changes came I did get sent a PM through CoinZen, but it never forwarded to my email so I never saw it. And I wasn't active on the forum to see that I had a message there. It looks like everything has moved over to CoinZen, so I'm going to have to dig through there to figure things out--unless you'd like to fill me in. My current admin duties do not necessarily require me to know the latest developments in order to do my duties.

I agree with you that there is no benefit to getting personal here. This thread is going to be someone's first impression of Devcoin, because Bitcoin Talk is still considered the go to forum for all things crypto including alt coins. For this reason, (and this is a general recommendation) despite how one might feel about whether an admin who asks a question should have done homework or is motivated by greed or whatever, it's still more professional to just answer a question that someone asks. And the answer can include pointing to a link (a CoinZen thread, even) where the answer is posted so as not to repeat things too much. But there should be a straight answer. I was really speaking to that when I gave my feedback and suggestion.

I have nothing constructive to add, but here are some links:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg8586376#msg8586376
http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,147.msg34617.html#msg34617
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg10830221#msg10830221
http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1087.0.html
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_division_proposal

[wiser]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg8586376#msg8586376
http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,147.msg34617.html#msg34617
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg10830221#msg10830221
http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,1087.0.html
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_division_proposal

Thank you!

[ranlo]

Can anyone that's able to sync please share their conf file? I've tried loading the client on two systems now and (even deleting peers.dat) can't find any peers.

[wiser]

Can anyone that's able to sync please share their conf file? I've tried loading the client on two systems now and (even deleting peers.dat) can't find any peers.

If you can tell me where I'm likely to find it, I'll be happy to share mine with you. I do the default windows installation. I always struggle to find wallet related files because they go into hidden files so I need to know the likely direct path (or how to unhide).

[ranlo]

Can anyone that's able to sync please share their conf file? I've tried loading the client on two systems now and (even deleting peers.dat) can't find any peers.

If you can tell me where I'm likely to find it, I'll be happy to share mine with you. I do the default windows installation. I always struggle to find wallet related files because they go into hidden files so I need to know the likely direct path (or how to unhide).

On Windows it should be:

C:/UserName/Roaming/Devcoin/

Here, there may or may not be a file called "conf." It has to be created manually, to add in things like node IPs. So you likely wouldn't have it since you're not sure of the location, .

[Arbitrageur]

I think it's all great discussion, and it's encouraging to see.

This coin is far from dead, and the price is going to do what the price is going to do for the time being. I'm still happy that people are seeing this as a good buying opportunity, as I do myself. It implies that people still believe in its mission, as I do too.

I've had some rl responsibilities hinder my ability to push forward the devcoin proposal since I took over in September, so the reason it is delayed is largely my fault. On the bright side, looking through the proposal now, there's still nothing that I would change about it, so I'm still confident that it will improve things long term (this is what I'm talking about, if you don't know: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_division_proposal).

There were some kinks in the change of leadership when I took over; a lot of admins just disappeared with the falling price, new devtome writers weren't being added by Unthinkingbit, and whole bunch of other stuff I don't have any control over was not being done - my role as "leader" felt very much like a namesake more than anything actually meaningful, and it really felt like I'd been handed a sinking ship just so it had someone to go down with it...without a manual. Maybe that's still the case, however this isn't like a stock where a company can go bankrupt and shut down (like penny stocks), the cryptocurrency is meritable in and of itself, and can be revamped as many times as we need to. As many have mentioned before, a lot of people here don't even earn devcoins because they need the money, they earn them because of its noble mission.

As for the proposed changes themselves, UTB is still in control of accounting, and doesn't want the account files changed (account.py), so instead we're going to have to implement the proposal via the ongoing bounty file, which I do control. The way the files run, however, means it's not going to perfectly divide all the divisions as expected. At the moment, what you see on something like http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com is an imperfect estimate of the final shares, and when the account files are run, things like ratings, admin bonuses, marketing and all that are calculated by UTB and stored on his github. Once they are on there, it is "official", and final. I do my own calculations daily, but the only one that matters is the final one, which sometimes varies from mine slightly, probably because of timing. He then pushes those files to the various file custodians to be spread by the client. To implement the division proposal perfectly, it would have to be done before pushing to clients, which UTB doesn't want to do, from our last conversation. Doing it in the ongoing file means I have to predict what the final values are going to be, create normalizations on these, then the account script adds these to the final account.csv when UTB runs it. While I can make a very good guess, it's not going to be perfect. If the community still supports implementing the proposal this way, then that's what I'll do. I haven't calculated the error, but I estimate it to be around 5%, against the perfect version.

There are several other issues we face, going forward.

The first, is our exchange presence. Vircurex in particular is a problem, because it's run by the same people who run crypto-stocks, and while both were quite busy for a while, I've been hearing nothing but bad things about them for the last twelve months. Vircurex was hacked some time ago, and the owners promised to pay everyone back from the profits of trading, which was slowly working for a time. Then a few months ago, another issue they had meant they had to freeze funds, causing people to basically flee the exchange, which destroyed their trading volume. It still seems to be running ok now, but the volume is ultra light, meaning that both confidence in them is at an all time low, and there is extremely little incentive for the owners to build or invest anything more into it. The risk of putting funds on there long term is too high for my tastes. We are also listed on Cryptsy, which doesn't seem to be suffering the same fate, but being on only one and a half exchanges is disconcerting. We simply need more exchanges, which we aren't going to get until we're more interesting to speculators.

The second, is that we never managed to generate a block on the live chain, so couldn't confidently say our new client worked properly. This had repercussions down the line because people think the client hasn't changed in over a year, when it has had a lot of work done. The changes work in the test-net, but we have to convince the bigger merge mining pools to try them live and confirm all is well. One thing we could do is simply declare the new client official, and assume it works. It's not good practice to do this, but we may not have any other option without investing serious capital into mining hardware. I tried to do it with blisterpool, but p2pool just didn't pay out frequently enough to keep people interested...even when I was paying a 20% bonus in devcoins! I have had other ideas to get people to lend us their hash, but haven't had the time to actually do any of it. My time will become more available after January, which is when I can more seriously attempt the division changes again.

Devtome writers haven't been added for some time. UTB is still in charge of adding them, and I believe there is a substantial amount of work that goes into vetting new writers, which he seems to not have had the time to do. He is still around and is still doing the files, so the only thing writers can do about this is hound him until he does it, unfortunately.

Lastly, I wasn't exactly given a handbook on things when Unthinkingbit handed over the reigns, and essentially admins as they were have complete control over their assigned duties. This lack of organization is extremely difficult to problem solve, so one of the things I will address soon is who is actually still here doing their jobs. As someone mentioned, accountability has been poor, and that has to change if we have any hope of recovering. On that note, we will probably go through a mass culling of administrators in the next few rounds. Anyone who is still willing to work on devcoins (and has been), irrespective of the price are of course immune to the cull, but I suspect many haven't been bothering to do their duties as promised. I know the pay exists and is supposed to have some meaning, but to draw on the movies for a moment, I would rather have 300 Spartans than 3000 potters, sculptors and blacksmiths.

one of last hunterbunter's post. just as a reminder...

[wiser]

On Windows it should be:

C:/UserName/Roaming/Devcoin/

Here, there may or may not be a file called "conf." It has to be created manually, to add in things like node IPs. So you likely wouldn't have it since you're not sure of the location, .

You were right. I don't have a conf file. Sorry. I've seen that type of file before--I believe it's automatically added with other wallets I have, but not Devcoin. My client is working fine but I haven't updated it, so it may not be the latest version. I think I'll leave well enough alone for now.

[Arbitrageur]

hunterbunter looks alive, he posted something on coinzen over a one month ago

http://coinzen.org/index.php/topic,3226.0.html

apart from that, anybody noticed the price ticking up?

[novacadian]

OK who's in charge in here? let's talk about what to do of this coin before it really dies.
First of all, why don't we introduce the halving just as btc. Should be about time now.

anche check your coinzen forum, someone is spamming it like a garbage bin.

No idea who's in charge anymore. Some of us admins have somehow been missing months of payments, despite following through with our jobs during the entire period. There are a lot of fixes that need to be dealt with before things like halving are even talked about, and there are apparently people getting a LOT more coins than they should be.

Isn't Unthinkingbit still in charge?

I haven't been tracking my payments too well to notice if I've been missing any, other than the last round, because my earnings were zero and that's hard to miss. It looks like they got put back into round 47, though.

The part that bugs me, though, is that when I got taken off earnings for my jobs (because I failed to reply to the forum post a month ago), I never got a PM about it. I did get other admin related PMs, though, like please upload the latest receiver file. So I kept doing my duties not realizing that because I didn't reply to a forum post I was about to be able to keep the job but not the pay LOL. In the future, when there's an important change or decision affecting an admin, it's a good courtesy to message us specifically so we are alerted. If you want to add regular forum participation as part of the job description, then that's fine, but since that's not a requirement currently (and was not when we signed on) we should all get PM'd about this change and given a chance to decide to make sure we check in as often as needed to meet the new criteria or quit. I also believe that regardless of what goes on in the other forums, the major information and updates should continue to be posted to this BCT thread. That's how it works with other coins. There are only so many forums one can actively participate in and still remain sane It's basically BCT and one or two others. So major information and updates need to be posted here.

Hi wiser,

You were PM'ed by me, from coinzen.com, on 03/24/15. My instructions, from Hunterbunter, were to wait an agreed period of time and then submit the list of admins who replied.

It is understandable that you may not need to log into coinzen.com to perform your duties, yet if PM to email does not work for you it would be a good idea to stay in touch by logging in at least weekly. It seems odd to me that we are even having this discussion here instead of coinzen.com. Perhaps we should have the debate if coinzen.com is even required. Taking it down would free up some shares. This is not meant as a new requirement, to visit coinzen.com, yet a trusted means of communication is required among Admins and that needs to be agreed upon.

As another poster had mentioned, we continue to have spam bombardments on coinzen.com. Efforts will be made to ensure that no email domains have been caught up in the massive amount of bannings that have resulted as a consequence. The forum is taking up too much of my time which could be directed towards HR Admin duties. It would not break my heart to see it go.

- Nova

[novacadian]

Your reinstatement request has been made wiser and Melodiemuse.

- Nova

It looks like I didn't receive any earnings (file custodian, marketing) for Round 46 either.

Is there any database to see this easily again, so we can see what the amounts are for? I'd like to see if mine are credited properly but the old site is down now.

https://github.com/Unthinkingbit/charity/blob/master/account_47.csv

Wow... I wish I'd have checked this sooner. I'm missing a LOT of things for round 45, 46 and 47 (didn't go back further than this). 46 and 47 I'm not even on the list. In 45, it missed my file custodian and something else. Who are we supposed to bring this up to?

Hi ranlo,

Currently Melodiemuse is listed as Earning Administrator. That would be a good place to start things. She can then take it up with the Earning Factorum, Alyssa85, if need be. If not resolved then please let me know.

- Nova

[novacadian]

OK who's in charge in here? let's talk about what to do of this coin before it really dies.
First of all, why don't we introduce the halving just as btc. Should be about time now.

anche check your coinzen forum, someone is spamming it like a garbage bin.

Hi Arbitrageur,

You can find the Devcoin Human Resources page via:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_human_resources

Input welcome on coinzen.com. Just open up a thread with your thoughts and would be happy to join in.

- Nova

[novacadian]

Really? Do you have any proof of your statement? if there really went more than 100k $ into development there should be a bigger impact of progress for Devcoin than it is/was.   i am still a big DVC hodler.

More then 100k $ of revenues from mining went into development, only in the last year, and what did you accomplish?
154k $ market cap, you are a bunch of thieves!

Simple: in a year devcoin has 2.5B new coins mined, 2B of which goes to devs. In may last year devcoin was worth 20 satoshi and fell all along the way to 4 (I believe it's the same devs selling most of their monthly check). Let's assume 10 satoshi average price at a 350$ avg bitcoin price: 2B*350*0.00000010 = 70k usd. Not far from the 100k estimate by lechatnoir.

Now, assuming devcoin remains at these prices around 5 satoshi with btc at 250 for the next year, it's only 25k, less than 2500 a month. how many people split these revenues? what do they do with it? why don't they move their ass to push the price of this coin north of 20 satoshi with some real development that revives the community?

Hi Arbitrageur,

Have your visited DevTome? My guess is the lion's share of DevCoins have gone to writing shares. Hunterbunter has proposed a change up to share splitting, which should be coming online shortly by my understanding, that would lessen that distribution. Yet for the last while DevTome has been the main project of DVC, with some programming bounties as well of course.

Here is one uplifting story of how DVCs changed a life....

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=how_i_spent_my_devcoins_in_africa

- Nova

[novacadian]

even with the devs under hibernation the price is slowly going up, I'm impressed. are they secretly buying from their freeze cell before announcing a comeback? usually that's the way devs make money: promise amazing things, pump the price and sell the coins, once the are done, disappoint the buyers, undergo hibernation, buy the lows, make a comeback, new promises again, pump up the price, sell to the gullible public... rinse and repeat.

Hi Arbitrageur,

It is interesting to be sitting somewhat on the inside and seeing your observations from the outside. They may seem valid yet it is my belief that no funny business is going on in the inner sanctum.

The transition from UTB to Hunterbunter has not been the smoothest for the access issues which have been discussed on the thread. These issues are being addressed to my understanding or at least discussed. My feeling is that the plans Hunterbunter has for DVC are good ones. He has taken things to the point he can at the moment due to access, yet to my understanding is pressing on to iron out the ruff spots.

The slow rise from the single digit value is probably due more to people realizing that this is a great time to buy! Imagine buying now and it rises to even its stable 0.00000040 of the past.

- Nova

[novacadian]

And I'll echo the sentiment that has been hinted at here, which is that whoever the Devcoin developers are now, can you please "stand up?" I realize devs have better things to do than spend a lot of time on forums, but... a brief update post once or twice a week goes a long way.

wiser the Devcoin Human Resources page is nearly current. Two Admins should be added shortly; Flam and iluveunc. You can find their duties from old versions of that page. Everyone else should be at their post.

- Nova

[novacadian]

Hunterbunter's role and proposed changes were made clear months ago by him and by UTB. He put quite a bit of time into information and suggestions, and there were comments by people posting recently claiming not to know.

Sidhujag, myself and others proposed changes to alter the dynamics and avoid reaching an inevitable stasis. Many put a lot of effort into various working aspects with their own constructive opinions. They were dismissed by the few, largely out of economic ignorance and personal greed. Hopefully recent changes and renewed input by HB, Nova and others can turn things around, and personally I don't have a lot of time for admins, recipients and writers who take little interest beyond their own benefit or input, then moan about it.

The simple ethos of Devcoin is something beyond easy gain or skewed monetary advantage of a pyramid like most cryptos. Making it a success requires adhering to that ethos of community involvement and thinking further forward than the latest receiver file.

Well said!

- Nova

[hugabase]

DVC price should have been 3X more than price XRP

[K1773R]

DVC price should have been 3X more than price XRP

XRP is just well done marketing debt scam it will fail over time.