HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[cedivad]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

[3DX4D]

That's not the original.

Agreed, but it appears to be the stance the company has taken, which leaves people only a couple of options, test it in court or wait it out.  I don't see option 1 as viable at this point, by the time you hauled their ass to court it will be after 12/31/13.  That is also not saying anything about cost's and logistics of going to court for out of town/state/country folks.

[tacotime]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

They still aren't getting back to me on this issue.

[DPoS]

The only good parameter is how early you get it.  The total lifetime BTC profit is extremely front loaded. 

exactly - anyone trumpeting lower power costs as important is a moron

[DPoS]

You are calculating ROI in USD. Since BJ's are paid for in BTC you should measure ROI in BTC.

this is another huge point.   If you could of used low/no interest credit to buy, then you could make justifications.  But any btc/cash in hand for such long delays, then you are starting out dunked in quicksand

[amer]

Amer you are way off on your figuring of the MPP it is laughable


why dont you reread the MPP and then actually think about it before posting such calculations and you will see you are WAY off on what you just posted

The only person being laughed at is you. You have made a bunch of claims about doing the math but shown no numbers and the rest of us HAVE individually done the math and know that your calculations are wrong. Honestly, every post you make makes HashFast look bad, you're not doing them any favors by polluting their thread.

[Micky25]

FYI:

Orders are shipped in the same order that payment is received. Orders placed today are anticipated to ship in late January.

https://hashfast.com/shop/baby-jet-third-batch/

When I see this price I could cry all day, I payed $12,880.69 at current BTC rate. Now it costs $2,250.

And what have I got for giving them the cash to start their business? Nada. And probably won't get anything usefull. Thank you very much!

EDIT: When I see this price I could cry all day, I payed $17,175.35 at current BTC rate. Now it costs $2,250.

And what have I got for giving them the cash to start their business? Nada. And probably won't get anything usefull. Thank you very much!

Well I am already setup and payment ready for Hashfasts Next Surprise announcements ( I am not allowed to say what it is but i know of 2 up comiming announcements that will shock everyone ( they are good announcement )

Hello! Another one with an NDA! 

[Paladin69]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

You'll get BTC back at the current spot price.  Not the quantity of BTC used.  If the spot price dips below what you paid, you'll only get back the quantity of coins used.

The game is rigged in their favor.  This is how all these asic developers operate.

Mining is a mug's game.  Even the guy who bought 200 baby faps is going to get slaughtered.  Somebody should calculate how much btc they used or could have bought instead.  That should make you feel better that you aren't alone.

[cedivad]

The game is rigged in their favor. This is how all these asic developers operate.

They have openly lied about their first promised shipping date, so yes, they might hold the whip hand, but i'm confident that a legal route against them is possible. For how much? I don't know, it depends on how much BTC grows.

[minternj]

cedivad, you still havent found a lawyer to take up your case?

[cedivad]

cedivad, you still havent found a lawyer to take up your case?

That's correct, but that was before the last updates. The fact that i'm from oversea and that i can only send emails doesn't help.
Now that we have proofs (or rather, a self admission) that they would have never have shipped by their promised shipping date, everything could change.

[User705]

So whats the update on refund? I dont see them meeting their next deadline and want a refund? How much BTC are we losing because they lied? If they said end of year shipment or late nov I would of never would think about buying a babyjet...  end of oct was a risk but why would a customer take a loss when a company is gonna make millions without even shipping a product?

I'm sure they wouldn't have sold out batch one if they said delivery at mid December. I'm really annoyed, and in the same camp as you. We were deliberately lied to. I don't think they ever were on track for October shipping judging by what progress they have made so far.

Agreed.

There is too much of a delay in delivery. I would like a refund in the currency I purchased with please.

What is the official ruling on the refunds?   HF?  tacotime?  anybody?

This is from their ToS. No refunds until 12/31/13

3. DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.
(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates – Batch 1. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. To avail itself of this remedy, Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast, and in any case before March 31, 2014.

https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

So the even the current TOS is a mess.  It says "Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast" but then it says "cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver" but that's only after the delivery date.  So it appears that there is no way to cancel before delivery at all which has been pointed out before is not a 100% legal way to sell things.

[cedivad]

So the even the current TOS is a mess.  It says "Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast" but then it says "cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver" but that's only after the delivery date.  So it appears that there is no way to cancel before delivery at all which has been pointed out before is not a 100% legal way to sell things.

This one is actually funny. The first one, "Buyer must cancel the order before such unit(s) are delivered by Hashfast", is a standard point made on every sell contract. The second one, instead, is the one HF tough to have the right to add.
It's a mistake, in other words.

[User705]

cedivad, you still havent found a lawyer to take up your case?

That's correct, but that was before the last updates. The fact that i'm from oversea and that i can only send emails doesn't help.
Now that we have proofs (or rather, a self admission) that they would have never have shipped by their promised shipping date, everything could change.

You are likely bound by an arbitration clause and even if you aren't the judge will initially send you there anyways.  www.adr.org

[DeathAndTaxes]

From what I understand the MPP originally only insures against the increasing speed of the network and not due to HashFast delays.  Nothing in the contract insures against HashFast delays.  The Oct 30th insurance was only a recent development.

Well to be clear the MPP provides additional haspower but it isn't insurance.  Hashfast is clear to point that out.  Depending on the order, price, ship date, and difficulty it is possible orders without MPP do better.  It is also possible even with MPP to have a loss.

[smoothie]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

They still aren't getting back to me on this issue.

Here is a red flag.

Just because they claim in their ToS that refunds can't happen until Dec 13st 2013 doesnt mean they dont have to refund a customer by law (at least in the U.S.) if indeed a customer makes a refund request..

[cleartime]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

They still aren't getting back to me on this issue.

Here is a red flag.

Just because they claim in their ToS that refunds can't happen until Dec 13st 2013 doesnt mean they dont have to refund a customer by law (at least in the U.S.) if indeed a customer makes a refund request..

Correct

[Endlessa]

Hey Hey. . I ummmm.  . . heard about this thing called MPP . . anybody got the inside track on this /sarcasm

[Flying Hellfish]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

They still aren't getting back to me on this issue.

Here is a red flag.

Just because they claim in their ToS that refunds can't happen until Dec 13st 2013 doesnt mean they dont have to refund a customer by law (at least in the U.S.) if indeed a customer makes a refund request..

And as we have seen abundantly with BFL if the company sticks to its policy of not providing refunds when requested (legal or not) it will be up to the investomer to force the issue.  With HF only accepting BTC and wire xfer, you really only have one option to force them, court.  The logistics and costs associated with this make for a "high barrier of entry" for lack of a better term.

[User705]

Every early august customer should demand HF a full refund. They have no reason not to. They keep promising that the refund will be BTC, right? We will see how fake that was.

They still aren't getting back to me on this issue.

Here is a red flag.

Just because they claim in their ToS that refunds can't happen until Dec 13st 2013 doesnt mean they dont have to refund a customer by law (at least in the U.S.) if indeed a customer makes a refund request..

And as we have seen abundantly with BFL if the company sticks to its policy of not providing refunds when requested (legal or not) it will be up to the investomer to force the issue.  With HF only accepting BTC and wire xfer, you really only have one option to force them, court.  The logistics and costs associated with this make for a "high barrier of entry" for lack of a better term.

TOS states "The arbitration shall be administered by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) or JAMS (or a substitute forum if both are unavailable)."
www.adr.org  The filing costs compared to cost of units especially if you bought more then one aren't high.