Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[Wayne_Chang]

I am DISGUSTED by most replies here. Almost all comments here are about missing ROI and the like. Hardly anyone mentions the terrifying times that team Avalon and their family went through and probably still are.

It's just GREED all the way.

Imagine you are a bright young man, with some bright friends, able to make a unique product that brings in millions and then you, your team and family found yourself in the crosshair of <fill in your local mafia>. All of you would take CARE OF YOUR FAMILY and would have to put your CRM on halt.

Yes, I am a customer of Bitsyncom, machines and chips.
Yes, I am waiting for some chips, but I will never let greed take over.
Yes, I will buy again.

Call me stupid, call me an idiot, but at least I am still decent.

Why don't you put on customer's shoes to think about this thing?
Avalon can tell lies again and again. Why their customers cannot say something or do something?
Someone can burn your house to ground. But you cannot even light a lamp. Is it fair?

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[bystander]

I am DISGUSTED by most replies here. Almost all comments here are about missing ROI and the like. Hardly anyone mentions the terrifying times that team Avalon and their family went through and probably still are.

It's just GREED all the way.

Imagine you are a bright young man, with some bright friends, able to make a unique product that brings in millions and then you, your team and family found yourself in the crosshair of <fill in your local mafia>. All of you would take CARE OF YOUR FAMILY and would have to put your CRM on halt.

Yes, I am a customer of Bitsyncom, machines and chips.
Yes, I am waiting for some chips, but I will never let greed take over.
Yes, I will buy again.

Call me stupid, call me an idiot, but at least I am still decent.

Folks here are not ROI robots who have no concept of humanity, we rallied around the guy when he said he wasn't mining with our units even with all of that dust on them, we believed him when he said there was sabotage that damaged the units, someone even got him a haagen dazs ice cream bar when he said he was hungry.    We believed him when he said he hated customer service and wanted to pursue his true passion in chip design.

Certainly the community would've been more sympathetic had he not gone incommunicado, but for "Why-I-Eff-You" to turn his back on Zefir, Steamboat, and Sebastian... then to turn his back on the community is the last straw. He didn't have to click off Sebastian who was trying to reach him every single day.  A quick response about his issues would've gotten the entire community to rally around him.  He certainly felt safe enough to ship at least 24 boxes to a reseller (maybe 135 altogether) on June 25.  Then to hastily come up with a 200,000 chip "stuck in customs" excuse with no tracking numbers, is really sad.

Fool us once shame on him, fool us twice shame on us.

[Vycid]

And to Benturas:    Its not about being greedy its about being on time and doing business right.  My Father taught me to be a man of my word and have integrity.  Own up to your mistakes and show accountability.  In this case: "Excuses are like Assholes.  Everyone has them and they all stink."  

Does "doing business right" mean ignoring credible threats of violence?

Credible threats of violence can be dealt by hiring security and police escorts, etc.  Thats what everyone else in the world does when they have a very valuable service and product to offer.

I don't mean to offend, but it is clear you have little understanding of how the world works. People hire security and escorts for baseline protection, when there is no suspicion of ill-will. Death threats require an entirely different sort of response.

If the president gets a death threat, do you think he takes the planned route? Do you think he makes his public appearance as usual, and says "ah, hell, I've got security"?

And lastly, I bet these "credible threats of violence" were somewhat self-inflicted, Yifu was not communicating with his customers regularly and thus was not very transparent.  This pissed a lot of customers off.  If you have more delays and excuses, let your customers know what is going on and stop giving half ass customer support.

I am speechless. Are you attempting to argue that he deserved the threats of violence?

And girls who wear short skirts are 'asking' to be raped, right?

(Furthermore: the lack of communication is implied to be the product of the threats. Millions of dollars worth of coins, chips, and hardware are enough to provoke extortion from unsavory sorts.)

[dexX7]

By the way, in case not all of you received the memo ref WSJ:

@ScottWapnerCNBC: Spoke to Joe Lewis this morning who says of reported Bitcoin investment: "Completely Untrue".  Tells me he's "Never heard of Phoenix Fund"

@ScottWapnerCNBC: Investor Joe Lewis tells me the story alleging his Bitcoin-related investment is 'completely untrue'.

[greaterninja]

And to Benturas:    Its not about being greedy its about being on time and doing business right.  My Father taught me to be a man of my word and have integrity.  Own up to your mistakes and show accountability.  In this case: "Excuses are like Assholes.  Everyone has them and they all stink."  

Does "doing business right" mean ignoring credible threats of violence?

Credible threats of violence can be dealt by hiring security and police escorts, etc.  Thats what everyone else in the world does when they have a very valuable service and product to offer.

I don't mean to offend, but it is clear you have little understanding of how the world works. People hire security and escorts for baseline protection, when there is no suspicion of ill-will. Death threats require an entirely different sort of response.

If the president gets a death threat, do you think he takes the planned route? Do you think he makes his public appearance as usual, and says "ah, hell, I've got security"?

And lastly, I bet these "credible threats of violence" were somewhat self-inflicted, Yifu was not communicating with his customers regularly and thus was not very transparent.  This pissed a lot of customers off.  If you have more delays and excuses, let your customers know what is going on and stop giving half ass customer support.

I am speechless.

Thats what security and cops are for.  Your protection....death threats...etc.
Honestly you seem pretty ignorant to believe that threats are what held up Avalon's production for 5 to 6 months.   Are you seriously that stupid?   I don't mean to offend you but your argument is quite retarded and only supports one of Yifu's many excuses in a half-ass way.

[Xenoph0bia]

let the 55nm come, now Ill ask something everyone might be wondering, can we expect a new trade in program ?  *headache*

Why trade in? They have no use for the old chips

[Vycid]

Thats what security and cops are for.  Your protection....death threats...etc.
Honestly you seem pretty ignorant to believe that threats are what held up Avalon's production for 5 to 6 months.   Are you seriously that stupid?   I don't mean to offend you but your argument is quite retarded and only on one of Yifu's many excuses.

Put yourself in the hypothetical situation where you have received a death threat, and consider this critically. What are your priorities? Do you REALLY think cops and security solve the problem? They can't be omnipresent, and even if they are, they can't un-bullet your face, just shoot at the guy who killed you. If presidents with huge security details can get assassinated, what do you figure the odds are for some American kid in China if the wrong person wants him dead?

And no, I don't think 5 or 6 months of production delays were due to this. That was a logistical failure on Avalon's part that Yifu ought to apologize for. But the month or so of chip delay, and the concurrent lack of communication, can plausibly be explained by customs issues and death threats. I am not waiting on a Batch 2 miner - if I was, I'd probably be more irritated.

I challenge anyone to provide proof that the threats did not exist, or that the customs issues are manufactured. I would be just as interested as the next guy to know about that, and it would provoke an angry and rather generous donation to the class action lawsuit legal fund.

[tunctioncloud]

So the news is: chips are on its way, wait a bit more for delivery

[g83]

nice to see more appreciation in here than in the german thread

[PuertoLibre]

Ok someone already called it last night, the (drumroll please) "stuck in customs" excuse.  

Jet lag guy had over 24 hours to think of a better reason than that, is that the best he could do?

I called it last night, LOL.

I don't doubt the Avalon guys. I just doubt the customs guy.

He will likely make announcements on the chips being stuck @ customs. Hence the multi-week delay.

Then he will make an announcement that their gen2 products are in the prototyping phase.

They crystal ball knows all!

Oh Wise & Powerful PuertoLibre,who will be the one to truely give us peons ASIC's 

In the next three months, expect various competitors to Avalon to crap out and delay their deliveries. Some may even fail and take their customers with them.

The new name of the game is non-preorder purchasing. Stability and delivery.

=====================

BFL is fucked by a massive pre-order backlog. Who knows if they will be able to dig themselves out or not. BFL might be able to sell Gen 2 if they are working on it (I believe it probably is in the works). But to hell if anyone will ever buy anything from them again.

Avalon has to only finish delivering Batch 3 and their million+ chips. A relatively easy state of affairs compared to BFL. They will likely lower the price of their gen 1 chips in October if not sooner. Intro of Gen 2 will probably be slated for November. With Gen 3 probably being a complete from the ground up redesign with Gen 4 being an additional die shrink. (probably 40-35nm)

ASICMiner needs new technology to keep up with these two (currently @ 130nm). I don't have a clue if they have a plan in place or not. They can't keep gouging in the face of this growing technology race. Their biggest risk is that they took in a shitload of profit but no one knows if they have a solid plan to evolve into gen 2.

Expect the "mother-of-all tumbles" to their stocks coming in October 2013. I suspect many share holders will begin liquidating their ownership in order to invest in "newer technologies"® which they hope will net them more profit than keeping AM shares. As the acceleration of shares being sold takes off, likely there will be a shortage of buyers. With massive shorting in AM shares just to get out in time.

-----------------------------

The crystal ball says the players behind bitcoin hardware will be experiencing lots of volatile situations and race conditions which may make even healthy companies shut their doors for good.

It may not be about who is best (technology wise) but who can avert a disaster at each turn.

[plasmoske]

nice to see more appreciation in here than in the german thread

What are ze Germans saying about this situation?

[PuertoLibre]

@ Unacceptable

Whatever the companies state for their target timeline:

If Avalon, then multiply by 1.5x to 2x. I think this has been proven more than once now. Expect High performance and low efficiency.

If BFL, then use exponential curves. Whatever you get, (if you get it), be happy.

If AM, then use 0.6x whatever they claim. Expect low performance and price gouging.

[g83]

nice to see more appreciation in here than in the german thread

What are ze Germans saying about this situation?

Germans mentality is just everything has to be exactly on time - some of them now want a lawyer to force delivery and crazy shit like that...

[driksson]

The only fair thing he can do is refund the groupbuyers, and then they can refund the clients (minus their markup ofcourse).
Then, he can announce a new IN STOCK price where previous group buyers can get a first in line order queue.
With that, i would for sure buy double the amount i have on order through my group buyer if i know it will be in stock, and at a lower rate.
I doubt it will happend though.

[tarmi]

I dont buy this story at all.


We all saw pictures of boxes with millions of chips inside them that were already shipped to mainland China.

Where are those chips?


I guess that Yifu made this story just to buy some time! We are all waiting for new chips to be produced!

Yifu you are a clown! You should pay for this delay!

[Unacceptable]

Ok someone already called it last night, the (drumroll please) "stuck in customs" excuse.  

Jet lag guy had over 24 hours to think of a better reason than that, is that the best he could do?

I called it last night, LOL.

I don't doubt the Avalon guys. I just doubt the customs guy.

He will likely make announcements on the chips being stuck @ customs. Hence the multi-week delay.

Then he will make an announcement that their gen2 products are in the prototyping phase.

They crystal ball knows all!

Oh Wise & Powerful PuertoLibre,who will be the one to truely give us peons ASIC's 

In the next three months, expect various competitors to Avalon to crap out and delay their deliveries. Some may even fail and take their customers with them.

The new name of the game is non-preorder purchasing. Stability and delivery.

=====================

BFL is fucked by a massive pre-order backlog. Who knows if they will be able to dig themselves out or not. BFL might be able to sell Gen 2 if they are working on it (I believe it probably is in the works). But to hell if anyone will ever buy anything from them again.

Avalon has to only finish delivering Batch 3 and their million+ chips. A relatively easy state of affairs compared to BFL. They will likely lower the price of their gen 1 chips in October if not sooner. Intro of Gen 2 will probably be slated for November. With Gen 3 probably being a complete from the ground up redesign with Gen 4 being an additional die shrink. (probably 40-35nm)

ASICMiner needs new technology to keep up with these two (currently @ 130nm). I don't have a clue if they have a plan in place or not. They can't keep gouging in the face of this growing technology race. Their biggest risk is that they took in a shitload of profit but no one knows if they have a solid plan to evolve into gen 2.

Expect the "mother-of-all tumbles" to their stocks coming in October 2013. I suspect many share holders will begin liquidating their ownership in order to invest in "newer technologies"® which they hope will net them more profit than keeping AM shares. As the acceleration of shares being sold takes off, likely there will be a shortage of buyers. With massive shorting in AM shares just to get out in time.

-----------------------------

The crystal ball says the players behind bitcoin hardware will be experiencing lots of volatile situations and race conditions which may make even healthy companies shut their doors for good.

It may not be about who is best (technology wise) but who can avert a disaster at each turn.

The "Crystal Ball" has spoken & I am listening..........................this time 

[kaerf]

@ Unacceptable

Whatever the companies state for their target timeline:

If Avalon, then multiply by 1.5x to 2x. I think this has been proven more than once now. Expect High performance and low efficiency.

If BFL, then use exponential curves. Whatever you get, (if you get it), be happy.

If AM, then use 0.6x whatever they claim. Expect low performance and price gouging.

seriously. i think those that did their due diligence would have come to a similar conclusion for avalon delivery times.  PuertoLibre has been following avalon since the beginning and knows what to expect from them.

i was fortunate enough to be a batch #1 customer, but even that was delayed about a month and a half (after having announced they "shipped") with very little communication from avalon (it was nerve wracking). As a result of their weak customer service and still unproven mass delivery capability, I only purchased a single batch #2 unit which ended up being 3.75 months late (originally March 10th ship date). I didn't even attempt to buy batch #3 and stayed the fuck away from chip sales (wouldn't touch the chips with a 10 ft pole)...in my estimation 8-10 weeks meant avalon would take 4 weeks to put the order in, wait 8-10weeks for chips to be made and then some unforeseen shipping mishap would delay at least another month.

[JimiQ84]

Asicminer is working on 2nd gen chip (55nm or 65nm) at least since may 17th (first information from friedcat).

[iCEBREAKER]

And to Benturas:    Its not about being greedy its about being on time and doing business right.  My Father taught me to be a man of my word and have integrity.  Own up to your mistakes and show accountability.  In this case: "Excuses are like Assholes.  Everyone has them and they all stink."  

Does "doing business right" mean ignoring credible threats of violence?

Credible threats of violence can be dealt by hiring security and police escorts, etc.  Thats what everyone else in the world does when they have a very valuable service and product to offer.

I don't mean to offend, but it is clear you have little understanding of how the world works. People hire security and escorts for baseline protection, when there is no suspicion of ill-will. Death threats require an entirely different sort of response.

If the president gets a death threat, do you think he takes the planned route? Do you think he makes his public appearance as usual, and says "ah, hell, I've got security"?

And lastly, I bet these "credible threats of violence" were somewhat self-inflicted, Yifu was not communicating with his customers regularly and thus was not very transparent.  This pissed a lot of customers off.  If you have more delays and excuses, let your customers know what is going on and stop giving half ass customer support.

I am speechless. Are you attempting to argue that he deserved the threats of violence?

And girls who wear short skirts are 'asking' to be raped, right?

(Furthermore: the lack of communication is implied to be the product of the threats. Millions of dollars worth of coins, chips, and hardware are enough to provoke extortion from unsavory sorts.)

Too bad the PRC is an unfree nation of robotic slave insects not allowed to own the means of self-defense, a basic human right.

If some thug showed up at an American's house intending to threaten/extort their brilliant entrepreneurial child, they would either be killed on the spot or taken somewhere very unpleasant to extract the names of who sent them.

From now on, I only invest in ASIC firms located in countries that respect/protect the right to keep and bear arms.

[Bicknellski]

Asicminer is working on 2nd gen chip (55nm or 65nm) at least since may 17th (first information from friedcat).

Too late?