Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[Pistachio]

22 May 2014
 
Prospero X3
We experienced a few serious technical issues with the backplane PCB which unfortunately delayed the completion of the Prospero X3. Our engineers spent the whole week debugging the problem without finding yet a working solution. We solicited expertise from 3rd parties and we are now having 3 different teams working on the issue around the clock. Please note that we are not in the position to estimate a completion time. It is possible that the fix could be solved as early as tomorrow or as late as next week. We decided as a safety measure to start redesigning 2 extra versions of the backplane PCB. The first complete bug free version will be used in production.
Deadline delays are never welcome news therefore we decided to offer the following optional packages available immediately which might be suitable for a minority of anxious customers who are able to build their own miner based on the Minion chip:
Option 1: Replace each Prospero (2 Thash) including the compensation package (1Thash) with 50 Minion ASICs (up to 7 Thash)
or
Option 2: Replace each Prospero (2 Thash) including the compensation package (1Thash) with 20 Hashboards (each PCB includes 2 x Minion ASIC, heatsinks, power chips, inductors, capacitors) – 4.5 Thash. Note that due to the lack of a backplane these boards have not been intensively tested therefore further rework might be required (e.g: add some capacitors); should this work be required we will only provide documents on what needs to be done. The customer will be responsible of executing it and purchasing the parts.
Note: Opting for any of these options will not cancel your 25% discount for your next Minion orders.
We would also like to ask from help from the technical community to help speed up solving the issues that we have encountered or to design a new backplane. The solicited work will be rewarded accordingly (money, products, etc.)
Prospero X1
Prospero X1 miners are not affected by the issue mentioned above and we should start shipping next week once the cases will be delivered.
Note: To avoid any further delay we have the option to deliver the case-less X1 if any of the customers will choose so.
Please contact out customer support should you choose any of the options above.

I appreciate the update and providing multiple options. This sounds much more hopeful than I was anticipating. X1 orders shipping in about a week is a good thing and no one wants an unstable miner.

If we go with the X1 board only option, can we have the cases shipped later on? I would pay for the additional shipping for the cases. I think the additional mining time would cover the shipping costs, but I could be wrong.

[ChuckBuck]

How does an asic manufacturer not know how to construct a miner?

Isn't that what they do for a living?

We do know how to build a miner. Our hashboards are running at 250Ghash with no problems or errors. The issue is the SPI communication fails on the current backplane as soon as you attach more than 1 hashboard. We've been trying to fix the current backplane in order to save time.

What's eta on the fix for backplane issue?  Have you consulted outside engineers to aid in supporting you, or are you just trying to figure it amongst yourselves, while your customers experience another delay?

And why don't you have X-1 cases again?  I missed that part somewhere.  Doesn't seem like a major thing to acquire to be missing at this late stage.

[me2014]

and how about refund???u dont have a product and so u dont need to unmanufacture it?and if u even ship next week(it will not happen for sure)-we get it in two weeks from now,with your 3TH "compensation" and PSU
(which we need to buy) we should be happy to payout PSU!!!!!!!!!!

[Syke]

We do know how to build a miner. Our hashboards are running at 250Ghash with no problems or errors.

Option 2: Replace each Prospero (2 Thash) including the compensation package (1Thash) with 20 Hashboards (each PCB includes 2 x Minion ASIC, heatsinks, power chips, inductors, capacitors) – 4.5 Thash. Note that due to the lack of a backplane these boards have not been intensively tested therefore further rework might be required

I'm hearing conflicting messages. Are the hashboards good or not?

[davidcbk]

This it´s incredible, your compensation are a lot of chips that you can´t ensamble?

I spent 6000 $ on a case without funcionality.. When you resolve the problem the difficulty makes me win 3 bitcoin in total? 1500 $ for 6000$? it´s a really good job.. incredible.

the worst decision of my life has been trust BlackArrow.. incredible guys.. incredible.. with 4 months to works and the last days all doesn´t work..

[kaerf]

How does an asic manufacturer not know how to construct a miner?

Isn't that what they do for a living?

We do know how to build a miner. Our hashboards are running at 250Ghash with no problems or errors. The issue is the SPI communication fails on the current backplane as soon as you attach more than 1 hashboard. We've been trying to fix the current backplane in order to save time.

Can you ship 20 boards with 20 backpanes?

EDIT: how does the hashboard work without a backpane? ...how does it interface with the controller?

[ChuckBuck]

How do you not have a case for the X-1 a week from June?

This boggles my mind.

[tempestb]

If you guys have to wait for the new backplane because the old one can't work, how long are we talking before shipping?  You get a new board made, you test it, you order they get manufactured, you receive them, etc.  What are we looking at here?  Because it sounds like the one you have now is dead.  After two weeks of three teams messing with it, it's obviously not going to work.  So are we looking at two weeks for the new boards to be built, tested, ordered, and shipped?  I realize some dude can maybe figure out your debacle with the rotten-board now.  But if he can't, what time span are we looking at here with the back-up boards?

[me2014]

THE BIG SECRET IS REVEAL-THEY CANT BUILD A PRODUCT AND WE ARE ALL SCREWED!!!

[SunnyIgor]

Bitcoin Miners progress update – 22 May 2014

Prospero X1
To avoid any further delay we have the option to deliver the case-less X1 if any of the customers will choose so.

Will we get the cases shipped when you recieve them, so we have complete working miners?
Even is we have to pay extra for shipping?

[jimmothy]

Will everything be doubled at this point with free PSU's and anything else needed to run?  Can you send barebone X-1's tomorrow and then get the cases to us?  even if its our expense?

+1

[fivejonnyfive]

Black Arrow:

You asked for technical solutions. I might have a very simple one.

DITCH THE BACKPLANE

Run wires from the connector to an SPI controller. Similar to the SPI controller you use for the bitfury boards. It works for KNC, It worked for your bitfury, probably simpler than trying to smash all that data over serial through a board.

JUST USE WIRES

Or, if you can't do that, put in a controller for every hashboard. You'd lose some money and a tiny bit of power would be wasted but it's time to ship.

[musicmaker613]

Black Arrow:

You asked for technical solutions. I might have a very simple one.

DITCH THE BACKPLANE

Run wires from the connector to an SPI controller. Similar to the SPI controller you use for the bitfury boards. It works for KNC, It worked for your bitfury, probably simpler than trying to smash all that data over serial through a board.

JUST USE WIRES

Or, if you can't do that, put in a controller for every hashboard. You'd lose some money and a tiny bit of power would be wasted but it's time to ship.

+1  I'm always been a little nervous about them using a backplane anyway.  Backplanes are one of those slick design feature that sound good in theory but tend to fall short in practice.  Also, what happens when one of our X3 backplanes fails?  All 5 hashboards in that module are dead in the water.  Now, I'm not sure what all components are located on the backplane, but could it be possible to just replace it with 5 ribbon cables and a hub of sorts?  It would help if we had a datasheet for the backplane.  Are there any controllers on the board?  I was assuming there was a separate control board and/or this function was located on the hashboard...?  What type of com is being implemented here?  (*I know very little about this kind of stuff, but have a very basic working knowledge of how the data is "piped" around*)  Where exactly does the problem lie?

[SunnyIgor]

Will everything be doubled at this point with free PSU's and anything else needed to run?  Can you send barebone X-1's tomorrow and then get the cases to us?  even if its our expense?

+1

+2

[alan_a1]

Bitcoin Miners progress update – 22 May 2014

Prospero X3
We experienced a few serious technical issues with the backplane PCB which unfortunately delayed the completion of the Prospero X3. Our engineers spent the whole week debugging the problem without finding yet a working solution. We solicited expertise from 3rd parties and we are now having 3 different teams working on the issue around the clock. Please note that we are not in the position to estimate a completion time. It is possible that the fix could be solved as early as tomorrow or as late as next week. We decided as a safety measure to start redesigning 2 extra versions of the backplane PCB. The first complete bug free version will be used in production.
Deadline delays are never welcome news therefore we decided to offer the following optional packages available immediately which might be suitable for a minority of anxious customers who are able to build their own miner based on the Minion chip:
Option 1: Replace each Prospero (2 Thash) including the compensation package (1Thash) with 50 Minion ASICs (up to 7 Thash)
or
Option 2: Replace each Prospero (2 Thash) including the compensation package (1Thash) with 20 Hashboards (each PCB includes 2 x Minion ASIC, heatsinks, power chips, inductors, capacitors) – 4.5 Thash. Note that due to the lack of a backplane these boards have not been intensively tested therefore further rework might be required (e.g: add some capacitors); should this work be required we will only provide documents on what needs to be done. The customer will be responsible of executing it and purchasing the parts.
Note: Opting for any of these options will not cancel your 25% discount for your next Minion orders.
We would also like to ask from help from the technical community to help speed up solving the issues that we have encountered or to design a new backplane. The solicited work will be rewarded accordingly (money, products, etc.)

Prospero X1
Prospero X1 miners are not affected by the issue mentioned above and we should start shipping next week once the cases will be delivered.
Note: To avoid any further delay we have the option to deliver the case-less X1 if any of the customers will choose so.
Please contact out customer support should you choose any of the options above.

SERIOUSLY ?! I just realized i paid 12k for a DIY project (2 units of X3)   
Well, this is the second deadline and i was hoping you guys can somehow fix it up, but its clear now that you can't fulfill your promises and  I really appreciate if you send me back my money, how can i start the refunding process??

* i ordered directly from black arrow website and paid through wire transfer.

[HardwareReviewer]

BA, thanks for this update.

However, I hope there will also be improved compensation for the non-technically skilled customers, as we are nearing June!


That being said, is there any possibility to actually mine with only the PCB and chips without much technical knowledge? How are we supposed to communicate with the PCB?

[showtimex]

BA, thanks for this update.

However, I hope there will also be improved compensation for the non-technically skilled customers, as we are nearing June!


That being said, is there any possibility to actually mine with only the PCB and chips without much technical knowledge? How are we supposed to communicate with the PCB?

You need to get up close and personal with Morse code, that is the only way you will be able to communicate, that and frickin laser beams!

Seriously everyone needs to chill out, STFU and wait, no more stupid compensation questions, whining, and boo hoo sob stories. You'll only delay things further. The miners will come, these guys ain't jumping ship, its all hands on deck now for the final push. And just in case you wanna playa hate, I got 30k on the line here too, I'm sure BA will make it right, Jesus told me so.

[rvansch]

"The issue is the SPI communication fails on the current backplane as soon as you attach more than 1 hashboard."

When problem solving, sometimes it helps to start with the basics:
http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4023908/Introduction-to-Serial-Peripheral-Interface

[Biffa]

BA, thanks for this update.

However, I hope there will also be improved compensation for the non-technically skilled customers, as we are nearing June!


That being said, is there any possibility to actually mine with only the PCB and chips without much technical knowledge? How are we supposed to communicate with the PCB?

You need to get up close and personal with Morse code, that is the only way you will be able to communicate, that and frickin laser beams!

Seriously everyone needs to chill out, STFU and wait, no more stupid compensation questions, whining, and boo hoo sob stories. You'll only delay things further. The miners will come, these guys ain't jumping ship, its all hands on deck now for the final push. And just in case you wanna playa hate, I got 30k on the line here too, I'm sure BA will make it right, Jesus told me so.

You think the guys working on the hardware have anything to do with forums, questions, whiners, or decisions about compensation?

[eightcylinders]

"The issue is the SPI communication fails on the current backplane as soon as you attach more than 1 hashboard."

When problem solving, sometimes it helps to start with the basics:
http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/beginner-s-corner/4023908/Introduction-to-Serial-Peripheral-Interface

To put a finer point on it, from the article above (beginner's guide to SPI lol):

SPI's full duplex communication capability and data rates (ranging up to several megabits per second) make it, in most cases, extremely simple and efficient for single master, single slave applications. On the other hand, it can be troublesome to implement for more than one slave, due to its lack of built-in addressing; and the complexity only grows as the number of slaves increases.

So, Black Arrow, as it appears your backplane did not adequately address the lack of an addressing mechanism (surprisingly, but that is water under the bridge .. though I think at least one engineer ought to walk the plank for that f-up)... It is impossible, even for a very sophisticated customer, to address the feasibility of your second option (getting hashing boards for a DIY solution) without some further information.  To wit:

(1) We need ALL technical specifications and interface protocols for the hashing board.  Is SPI the only control mechanism?  Can the boards be used with USB instead or would an SPI - USB bridge need to be implemented by us poor customers?

(2) Are you supplying power through the backplane, or does each board (hopefully) instead have its own power connection?  Either way (individual power through board, or backplane) we need detailed specs on the types of connectors available on the hashing boards to supply power, and the power requirements, tolerances, etc.

(3) For a customer that might be interested in the DIY solution, it is essential to have a ready to go mounting solution.  The X-3 cases would provide such, so why not send us the cases and power supplies together with the extra hashing boards.  Ideally, you would provide an 5 Prospero cases with power supplies for each X-3 order (enough to mount and power the full 4.5 Th/s of boards you are proposing to send).  At a minimum, you should provide 4 cases (for 4 Th/s solution) and the extra hashing boards can be left to our creativity to mount and power.  Without cases and power supplies, any engineer working on solving your problems for you would be hobbled by first having to rig up power and mounting solutions .. that would delay any solution by at least a week.  How can you expect your customers to pitch in our time and creativity to solve **your** problem if you don't at least give us what we need (and for that matter, what we paid for)?

(4) You must release the board specs and some warranty that the boards hash if you are going to offer such a degraded solution.  If I blow a board by providing too much power or damage the boards in some way, its my fault.  But if I power them according your spec, mount them in the nice X-3 case that you should provide, and use your power supplies, they should hash at least invidually at the .7 watts/Gh/s that you announced earlier.  Right?

(5)  When the backplane is fixed, you should provide it to us free of charge.  We paid for it, and now we are helping you fix your engineering problems... why wouldn't we get the backplanes when fixed???  The "extra" .5 Th/s in hash boards does not even begin compensate for the pain of having to assemble the system, much less debug and provide communication and control mechanisms ourselves ... and you are asking is to do much more than that.  So the backplanes are part of what we paid for and you have to provide those when ready.  It is offensive that you would not offer that to early adopters who might try to fix your issues.  (Oh, and yes I know you have only announced compensation of 3 Th/s for each X-3, but as addressed previously the "current" market price puts required comp at 4 Th/s to be equal with Spondoolies .. and it will get much higher in comp when you are really ready to ship so the offer of 4.5 Th/s in hash boards is hardly enough even by itself).

Black Arrow, if you can't at least offer the foregoing (and preferably a lot more), how can you expect us to help you?  I (and everyone else) will be **forced** to ask for a refund.  Or, if we do elect to wait it out, your required compensation will skyrocket... by August Spondoolies will be shipping SP30's at $1/Ghs and under .7 watts/Gh/s - and those in the know say Spondoolies will beat their August ship date.  So do you (Black Arrow) really want to chance that?  If you cannot ship by the time Spondoolies starts shipping the Sp30, you will owe EACH customer 6 Th/s in a complete, power supply included, system.  Or refunds now.  So what I am asking (demanding really) for those of us willing to try to fix your issues, is very minimal.  Others may want even more.  But you AT LEAST have to offer something that is workable .. and you haven't done that.