Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[MrTeal]

I was going to post this in the group buy thread, but bobsag3 locked it. I hope this is helpful for those thinking about exchanging for bare chips.


Fisrt of all, paying for assembly with chips is a pretty good deal. You're getting a value of $69.75  per chip from Technobit. Much better than the $35 or $25 others are offering. Who are the vultures?

Assuming 1 X3, that's 100 chips. You end up with 12 boards, with four chips left over. 8 chips per board - that's 4 in the board, and 4 for payment.
So a grand total of 4.8 TH consuming ~4800 W.

Additional costs include coolers for each mounted chip, so in this case 48 coolers. Any socket 1150 cooler will work, but it needs to dissipate 100W. Also you'll need ATX PSUs to power them. In my opinion, I'd go with 12 500W units rather than powering multiple units with one PSU. The 1000W+ PSUs get proportionally more expensive. 500W units are much more common and cheaper per watt. YMMV.

So I found some 100W coolers for $10 a pop. If you want beefier ones, you'll pay as much as $25 a pop. So between $500 and $1200 for coolers.
I also found a well reviewed 500W PSU on sale for $25 after MIR. But you can easily find them for $50. So between $300 and $600 for PSUs.

So let's take a middlish price and say $1200 in additional out of pocket expense for 12 boards, or $100 per board to get them running. Plus you still have 4 chips which you could have mounted on a 13th board for $279.

So you would end up with 5.2 gh/s for an extra $1600. That's about 60% more hashing power. Is it worth it, or is it throwing good money after bad? You decide for yourself.

After MIR price is only useful if you are buying a couple since almost no MIR will let you get a rebate for 12 units. You'd probably be better off (and get a much better supply) if you bought four of Sidehack's DPS-2000B boards with cables for $366 along with four PSUs off eBay for $120, and ran four boards off each one.

[primer10]

Incorrect.
Chips are 1w/gh @ 120gh, ~.85w/gh @ 100gh. Tested on live units.

Sure. Even with what you said, compared to S3

              S3                     BA             Hex4M
Cost       450 (0.725btc)    4x360?       205 Euro + cost of 4 Minions
Avail      10-20 July             ??             2 to 4 weeks once Minion chips arrive (when?)
Power      366W                4x120W       4x120W
Speed      478GH               480GH          480GH


Enuff said.

To be fair, with the groupbuy for these boards they'll be 20% off, so ~US$223. You didn't add on $80 in heatsinks if you can get a deal and say 1/4 of a TPLINK router (assuming running four boards off one) for $13, so you're at ~$320 plus the cost of chips and shipping back and forth.

Obviously just getting a refund is the best option, but if you assume that refunds from BA will be slow to come (or never arrive) getting a Hex4M might be worthwhile.

Sending in 2x the chips and getting an assembled boards is a much better deal though. If you have an X3, sending 96 chips in and getting 12 boards for only shipping and $1300 for heatsinks and TPLINK routers is a great deal. Sure you need to add 6kW worth of power supplies, but you'd have to add almost that much worth for the S3s anyway.

Fair enough. Good deal if $223 includes the price of 4 Minion chips.

Let's say without the TPLINK router and PSU, since you need one for S3 as well. Hex4M with heatsink comes to about ~$300.

Price diff: $150
Power Diff: 114W

Hex4M would be a better choice than S3, assuming power cost is 10cents per kWH.

EDIT: Correction, you do not need TPLINK for S3.

[sorehammer]

Bobsag3 is the compensation the same for batch 1 as 2 as batch 1 paid more

[ORabbit]

After MIR price is only useful if you are buying a couple since almost no MIR will let you get a rebate for 12 units. You'd probably be better off (and get a much better supply) if you bought four of Sidehack's DPS-2000B boards with cables for $366 along with four PSUs off eBay for $120, and ran four boards off each one.

Good point. Looks like those boards aren't available yet? Here's the link to the pre-order for those that want to investigate.

[ElGrandJefe]

Hey Bobsag, was the surprise ever revealed and I missed it?  Or is it still under wraps?

Surprise was that BA was not going to Price/Hashrate Match per their previous promises....

Surprise!

Surprise! You get capacitors that won't explode!

Surprise!

[Dallas5]

Have 5 large fright shipments on my UPS account, 1 one @ 220KG has been picked up and moving, nothing on the other 4 yet. As well I have sever orders of chips on the way for anyone that wants to convert their order.

Bobsag I got an email my refund was delayed for the 2nd time, it should have been send today, how long before your company starts sending out refunds again?

Did everyone else got their refund except me? I've been waiting for two months now. Minersource promised twice to refund me and both times the refund never came.  

I seem to be ignored for some reason, guess customers aren't that important. I've waited patiently on the machines and after that on the refund but this is just a nightmare.

[Bicknellski]

Chip cost 0.575$ Gh/s and 0.49$ Gh/s for +4400PCS.

You can get a full miner for well under $1 Gh/s.

Think carefully about your next move people and do the calculations especially in time to get something made and delivered as well as efficiency the device you intend or have made for you at the wall. The numbers are tight at best. Volume is the only way you can get the costs down. There is limited stock obviously. Please be careful out there when taking chips in lieu of miners.

Sell your chips recoup what you can and buy something that is in stock from Bitmain or Rockminer or simply take BTC for your chips. The faster you do that the better off you will be in the long term. Making these into boards now is just not worth it. Who will be first in line to get boards? Who will be last? Does the board fabricator have the capacity to do 1000s of boards day? A week? A month? Suggest you rethink fabrication especially without a clear DELIVERY date for chips and the miners. This a huge nightmare in the making don't get caught up in it if you can get out now do it.

[ChuckBuck]

Have 5 large fright shipments on my UPS account, 1 one @ 220KG has been picked up and moving, nothing on the other 4 yet. As well I have sever orders of chips on the way for anyone that wants to convert their order.

Bobsag I got an email my refund was delayed for the 2nd time, it should have been send today, how long before your company starts sending out refunds again?

Did everyone else got their refund except me? I've been waiting for two months now. Minersource promised twice to refund me and both times the refund never came.  

I seem to be ignored for some reason, guess customers aren't that important. I've waited patiently on the machines and after that on the refund but this is just a nightmare.

Minersource have a ton of people in their refund queue, so if you're still waiting 2 months now, I'd advise you to go for store credit instead.

This way you can get miners that you can actually use, or if you choose, sell them on eBay for fiat or this forum for BTC.

[Bicknellski]

Have 5 large fright shipments on my UPS account, 1 one @ 220KG has been picked up and moving, nothing on the other 4 yet. As well I have sever orders of chips on the way for anyone that wants to convert their order.

Bobsag I got an email my refund was delayed for the 2nd time, it should have been send today, how long before your company starts sending out refunds again?

Did everyone else got their refund except me? I've been waiting for two months now. Minersource promised twice to refund me and both times the refund never came.  

I seem to be ignored for some reason, guess customers aren't that important. I've waited patiently on the machines and after that on the refund but this is just a nightmare.

Minersource have a ton of people in their refund queue, so if you're still waiting 2 months now, I'd advise you to go for store credit instead.

This way you can get miners that you can actually use, or if you choose, sell them on eBay for fiat or this forum for BTC.

Why would there be a queue? Can't they pay everyone back?

[Dallas5]

Bobsag I got an email my refund was delayed for the 2nd time, it should have been send today, how long before your company starts sending out refunds again?

Did everyone else got their refund except me? I've been waiting for two months now. Minersource promised twice to refund me and both times the refund never came.  

I seem to be ignored for some reason, guess customers aren't that important. I've waited patiently on the machines and after that on the refund but this is just a nightmare.

Minersource have a ton of people in their refund queue, so if you're still waiting 2 months now, I'd advise you to go for store credit instead.

This way you can get miners that you can actually use, or if you choose, sell them on eBay for fiat or this forum for BTC.

The first time, in May, I went for a wire transfer refund since that's the way I paid. The 2nd time 1.5 week ago I opted for BTC.
After a week I got this email:

I apologize we did not get to your refund before Black Arrow began shipments. Now that black arrow has commenced shipping and our first bulk shipment is on its way, we will not be offering any more refunds or store credit until shipment of all outstanding orders is completed, if there is any continuation in delays or defects with the products we will continue doing refunds in the order requested.

So it seems I have to wait again for an infinite time, this just sucks especially because they promised me twice to refund and I was happy with the thought finally getting my $ back. I can't do anything more except wait and maybe sharing my experience here helps people.

Don't pre-order kids  

[Scrappy Do]

So who has chips in hand they are willing to sell?  Anyone besides BA directly I would consider buying their chips.  Chips must be in hand.

We will have 400 chips on Thursday in hand.

 Please count 200 of them as mine

[Scrappy Do]

Do the Marto boards run off of CGMiner or do they use that weird Hex miner stuff?

cgminer
the image for TP-link and patch are already available on our website

 Marto. Do you think these boards would be fine to be submerged in mineral oil? I just requested bob send my 200 chips to you and looking for an easy way to cool them. Also, I think if I am reading this right, you install a generic heatsink? If so, will that be enough if they are are submerged?

(Licking my chops for 25 th/s)

Scrap'

[sirsmokesalot]

Hey Bobsag, was the surprise ever revealed and I missed it?  Or is it still under wraps?

Surprise was that BA was not going to Price/Hashrate Match per their previous promises....

Surprise!

Lmao, that is EXACTLY what i was thinking. Thanks black arrow.

I really hope the building they are in collapses around them.

[Blockhunter]

Our products come with 1 year warranty unless stated otherwise. Please read our terms and conditions for more details.

https://blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html

Limited Warranty

7.1 We warrant the Products against defects in material or workmanship, for a period of one year from the date of purchase; we will, at no charge, repair the Products if they are determined by Us to be defective. After the warranty period, the Purchaser must pay all labor charges.
7.2 We will supply new or rebuilt replacements for parts determined by Us to be defective, at no charge, for a period of one (1) year from the date of purchase.
7.3 During the labor warranty period, to repair the Product, Purchaser will return the defective Product freight prepaid, or deliver it to Us. The Product to be repaired is to be returned in either its original carton or a similar package affording an equal degree of protection. We will return the repaired Product freight prepaid to Purchaser. All freight costs associated with replacement of warranty parts after expiration of the original labor warranty period are the responsibility of the Purchaser. We are not obligated to provide Purchaser with a substitute unit during the warranty period or at any time.
7.4 To repair the device under warranty, the customer has to inform us in writing or via email. We will then e-mail an RMA number, the shipping address and instructions. The product will then have to be returned by the customer to the specified address (to our factory or facility).
7.5 This warranty will apply provided that the Products have been used in accordance with the published instructions and does not cover normal wear and tear. Unless otherwise stated our products are for indoor usage only and using them outdoors voids the warranty. This warranty not apply to any of our products which should have been repaired or altered (except by us), tampered with or the seal case has been broken (if applicable), poured onto glue or any other kind of liquids / substances, subjected to misuse, negligence, or accident.
7.6 In no case shall our liability exceed the purchase price. The mentioned provisions do not extend the original warranty period of any product which either been repaired or replaced by us. The user is solely responsible for determining if the product is usable in his or her application.
7.7 We will not cover, under any circumstances, any customs or customs processing charges. Any such charges will be billed to the customer.

7.8 If a product has been returned for warranty repair and it is found to be in working order, we will charge a revision fee and the shipping fees to return it back to the customer.

[n00dles0up]

Hey Bobsag, was the surprise ever revealed and I missed it?  Or is it still under wraps?

Surprise was that BA was not going to Price/Hashrate Match per their previous promises....

Surprise!

Lmao, that is EXACTLY what i was thinking. Thanks black arrow.

I really hope the building they are in collapses around them.

On a more serious note, I am guessing the surprise has not been announced. Surely if Minersource is sending out stock, the they should be annoucing it very soon?

[sirsmokesalot]

Hey Bobsag, was the surprise ever revealed and I missed it?  Or is it still under wraps?

Surprise was that BA was not going to Price/Hashrate Match per their previous promises....

Surprise!

Lmao, that is EXACTLY what i was thinking. Thanks black arrow.

I really hope the building they are in collapses around them.

On a more serious note, I am guessing the surprise has not been announced. Surely if Minersource is sending out stock, the they should be annoucing it very soon?

I already told the surprise, i wasn't joking it is management software that manages multiple prospero miners at once.

Surprise!!!

Haha, i mean, it is a nice thing to have. But completely useless in the grand scheme of things. At least they are living up to the hash match promise they made at the start!

[Dot99lr]

Bobsag, any movements on the shipments? Any ETA? Thanks

[bobsag3]

Bobsag, any movements on the shipments? Any ETA? Thanks

Based on previous DHL speed, Wednesday-Friday this week. Most likely Thursday. I always find strange DHL never tells you estimated delivery date.

[mazedk]

I really hope they start shipping the non-reseller orders soon..

[n00dles0up]

Hey Bobsag, was the surprise ever revealed and I missed it?  Or is it still under wraps?

Surprise was that BA was not going to Price/Hashrate Match per their previous promises....

Surprise!

Lmao, that is EXACTLY what i was thinking. Thanks black arrow.

I really hope the building they are in collapses around them.

On a more serious note, I am guessing the surprise has not been announced. Surely if Minersource is sending out stock, the they should be annoucing it very soon?

I already told the surprise, i wasn't joking it is management software that manages multiple prospero miners at once.

  I only bought 1 x-1. They made out this surprise was something that would benefit everyone. Well I have nothing else to say now.