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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756172 times)
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 08:35:55 PM
 #42161

PLEASE PLEASE

When you 'QUOTE'....

EDIT THE 'QUOTE' so it only shows what your reply is relevant too..

Please don't quote whole rivers of text.... dare i say 'this is lazy'  Shocked

It will make it a lot lot easier for all of us reading this thread to catch everything...

I'm sure people will forget from time to time but please try to do this.

Thanks  Smiley

Ok.

(I could not resist)

Damn, I wanted to make this joke.

edit: I did.

Do not tease him.

Oops. Cheesy
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antanst
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March 08, 2014, 08:37:54 PM
 #42162

If the merchant has already given you the requested item and after that the first transaction get lost/reverted/etc. (because you spend the money somewhere else) we talk about a double-spend.

You're talking about the case when the merchant accepts the transaction, before even seeing it confirmed even once?

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March 08, 2014, 08:38:04 PM
 #42163

Thanks  Smiley

You're welcome.

(I'm killing me)

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ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 08:39:18 PM
 #42164

If the merchant has already given you the requested item and after that the first transaction get lost/reverted/etc. (because you spend the money somewhere else) we talk about a double-spend.

You're talking about the case when the merchant accepts the transaction, before even seeing it confirmed even once?

That is what instant transactions are about.
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March 08, 2014, 08:42:26 PM
 #42165

Ripple (which puts these selling points first as well) has been around longer than Bitcoin or at least nearly as long I believe.

Huh
Jerical13
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March 08, 2014, 08:43:11 PM
 #42166



The problem as I see it is that "loading" a card with NXT is not possible. It still needs to be confirmed on the network when it's spent and doesn't matter if it's a card, a cell phone or whatever. If the transaction speed is too slow it will never work for Point of Sale without merchants taking a leap of faith, off chain transaction verification (trusted 3rd party)

TF is the big selling point of NXT. It's why I became interested in it and purchased some because all the "literature" promised it.
Seems like a lot of indian giving might be happening. NXT seems to be in danger of becoming a slower version of RIPPLE if TF doesn't happen.

I was liking what I was reading about parallel block chains though. That gave me a little hope.

HODLING
[/quote]

I know it is not possible. It would take some work to do. But right now Instant network transactions are not possible. I am just trying to gage the effectiveness, and expenditure of resources in relation to the benefits of the outcome of making network transactions instant and provide a possible alternative solution for comparison.

The same as CFB is offering "parallel block chains" as a solution for comparison. I don't know anything about code writing or programing but I do know something about traditional payment services, so this is why I present this possible solution.
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 08:43:52 PM
 #42167

You're talking about the case when the merchant accepts the transaction, before even seeing it confirmed even once?

That is what instant transactions are about.

Well, the merchant confirms it softly in such way that he checks if there is a transaction that would contradict the first one. But both transactions are still not included in a block and therefore not confirmed.
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 08:45:48 PM
 #42168



The problem as I see it is that "loading" a card with NXT is not possible. It still needs to be confirmed on the network when it's spent and doesn't matter if it's a card, a cell phone or whatever. If the transaction speed is too slow it will never work for Point of Sale without merchants taking a leap of faith, off chain transaction verification (trusted 3rd party)

TF is the big selling point of NXT. It's why I became interested in it and purchased some because all the "literature" promised it.
Seems like a lot of indian giving might be happening. NXT seems to be in danger of becoming a slower version of RIPPLE if TF doesn't happen.

I was liking what I was reading about parallel block chains though. That gave me a little hope.

HODLING

I know it is not possible. It would take some work to do. But right now Instant network transactions are not possible. I am just trying to gage the effectiveness, and expenditure of resources in relation to the benefits of the outcome of making network transactions instant and provide a possible alternative solution for comparison.

The same as CFB is offering "parallel block chains" as a solution for comparison. I don't know anything about code writing or programing but I do know something about traditional payment services, so this is why I present this possible solution.
[/quote]

Could you point me to that solution of yours?
xyzzyx
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March 08, 2014, 08:46:41 PM
 #42169

If zerocoin/mixing is only an option for those who want to use it and do not become the standard of nxt core, then i see no problem. It would be the best of the two world. I just hope that  zerocoin/mixing  will simply be a layer on top of nxt for which user will have the choice to use it or not. Legal business will then simply not use the zerocoin/mixing functions. 

I would like to see Zerocoin on its own chain, but doing so likely does have the drawback of making it easier to correlate users with transactions.  Still, I'd rather it be optional.

 

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
antanst
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March 08, 2014, 08:53:35 PM
 #42170

That is what instant transactions are about.

Ah, right  Smiley

Well, the merchant confirms it softly in such way that he checks if there is a transaction that would contradict the first one. But both transactions are still not included in a block and therefore not confirmed.

I think there are already some Bitcoin merchants that "softly" check transactions and acknowledge payment instantly, like BitPay. This should prove particularly useful in their cases. Interesting stuff.

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March 08, 2014, 08:55:32 PM
 #42171

If zerocoin/mixing is only an option for those who want to use it and do not become the standard of nxt core, then i see no problem. It would be the best of the two world. I just hope that  zerocoin/mixing  will simply be a layer on top of nxt for which user will have the choice to use it or not. Legal business will then simply not use the zerocoin/mixing functions. 

I would like to see Zerocoin on its own chain, but doing so likely does have the drawback of making it easier to correlate users with transactions.  Still, I'd rather it be optional.
 

Once again, where is the evidence Zerocoin is being implemented with Nxt? Where is the code? Who is the Nxt developer writing the code? How do you resolve the problems mentioned in this post?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249


Quote
Zerocoin has a number of serious limitations:
- It uses cutting-edge cryptography which may turn out to be insecure, and which is understood by relatively few people (compared to ECDSA, for example).
- It produces large (20kbyte) signatures that would bloat the blockchain (or create risk if stuffed in external storage).
- It requires a trusted party to initiate its accumulator. If that party cheats, they can steal coin. (Perhaps fixable with more cutting-edge crypto.)
- Validation is very slow (can process about 2tx per second on a fast CPU), which is a major barrier to deployment in Bitcoin as each full node must validate every transaction.
- The large transactions and slow validation also means costly transactions, which will reduce the anonymity set size and potentially make ZC usage unavailable to random members of the public who are merely casually concerned about their privacy.
- Uses an accumulator which grows forever and has no pruning. In practice this means we'd need to switch accumulators periodically to reduce the working set size, reducing the anonymity set size. And potentially creating big UTXO bloat problems if the horizon on an accumulator isn't set in advance.



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jl777
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March 08, 2014, 08:56:36 PM
 #42172

All: Please watch this video about the future of Nxt and comment it (here), thank you very much!

http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ


Nxt Decentralized Internet video - alfa version:
http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ

(created between 20 Feb-8 March)

I would be very grateful for any comments and suggestions. It still needs some time, but it already can be commented

Based on the paper:
http://justpaste.it/decentralized-internet
(created between 12-18 Feb)

And good night, its almost 6 AM here Cheesy

There is no evidence Nxt is ever going to implement zerocoin. It's incompatible  with 1000 TF

Zerocoin has a number of serious limitations:
- It uses cutting-edge cryptography which may turn out to be insecure, and which is understood by relatively few people (compared to ECDSA, for example).
- It produces large (20kbyte) signatures that would bloat the blockchain (or create risk if stuffed in external storage).
- It requires a trusted party to initiate its accumulator. If that party cheats, they can steal coin. (Perhaps fixable with more cutting-edge crypto.)
- Validation is very slow (can process about 2tx per second on a fast CPU), which is a major barrier to deployment in Bitcoin as each full node must validate every transaction.
- The large transactions and slow validation also means costly transactions, which will reduce the anonymity set size and potentially make ZC usage unavailable to random members of the public who are merely casually concerned about their privacy.
- Uses an accumulator which grows forever and has no pruning. In practice this means we'd need to switch accumulators periodically to reduce the working set size, reducing the anonymity set size. And potentially creating big UTXO bloat problems if the horizon on an accumulator isn't set in advance.

parallel blockchains would make it possible

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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March 08, 2014, 08:56:50 PM
 #42173


If it is possible to speed up the network, in a resource efficient manor that wasn't out of balance with the purpose for speeding it up I say "Hell Yeah! Do it". If not , there are other options.

To use your words 'Hell Yeah' this is the way I would try to do it... and it is about infrastructure if you consider this to be how NXT works as a whole, but its not about H/W or shouldn't be (other than N/W).

What ever works. I see NXT as opportunity in infinite forms. To me that is its infrastructure. The more solutions and variants the better. The more observations from different points of view the better. Really there is nothing to rule out both suggested solutions being implemented simultaneously.

Plus this kind of conversation is just interesting. Cheesy

What do you mean by H/W and N/W ? missed that.
Eadeqa
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March 08, 2014, 09:01:26 PM
 #42174

All: Please watch this video about the future of Nxt and comment it (here), thank you very much!

http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ


Nxt Decentralized Internet video - alfa version:
http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ

(created between 20 Feb-8 March)

I would be very grateful for any comments and suggestions. It still needs some time, but it already can be commented

Based on the paper:
http://justpaste.it/decentralized-internet
(created between 12-18 Feb)

And good night, its almost 6 AM here Cheesy

There is no evidence Nxt is ever going to implement zerocoin. It's incompatible  with 1000 TF

Zerocoin has a number of serious limitations:
- It uses cutting-edge cryptography which may turn out to be insecure, and which is understood by relatively few people (compared to ECDSA, for example).
- It produces large (20kbyte) signatures that would bloat the blockchain (or create risk if stuffed in external storage).
- It requires a trusted party to initiate its accumulator. If that party cheats, they can steal coin. (Perhaps fixable with more cutting-edge crypto.)
- Validation is very slow (can process about 2tx per second on a fast CPU), which is a major barrier to deployment in Bitcoin as each full node must validate every transaction.
- The large transactions and slow validation also means costly transactions, which will reduce the anonymity set size and potentially make ZC usage unavailable to random members of the public who are merely casually concerned about their privacy.
- Uses an accumulator which grows forever and has no pruning. In practice this means we'd need to switch accumulators periodically to reduce the working set size, reducing the anonymity set size. And potentially creating big UTXO bloat problems if the horizon on an accumulator isn't set in advance.

parallel blockchains would make it possible

In other words, it's complete fiction right now with no evidence that anyone is even working on it to implement on Nxt and how it's going to be implemented. Not only there is no code, but how it will be implemented is unclear speculation.  Plus there is no evidence  it will work. We should stop making Youtube videos about Nxt having zerocoin "feature" as if it's implemented working feature. .

salsacz delete your youtube video immediatly.





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Sebastien256
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March 08, 2014, 09:03:27 PM
 #42175


In other words, it's completely fiction right now with no evidence that anyone is even working on it to implement on Nxt and how it's going to be implemented.
Plus there is no evidence  it will work. We should stop making Youtube videos about Nxt having zerocoin "feature" as if it's implemented working feature. .

salsacz delete your youtube video immediatly.


please look at nxtcash on the list of thread:
http://www.nxtcoins.nl/bitcointalk-threads/

EDIT:

If zerocoin/mixing is only an option for those who want to use it and do not become the standard of nxt core, then i see no problem. It would be the best of the two world. I just hope that  zerocoin/mixing  will simply be a layer on top of nxt for which user will have the choice to use it or not. Legal business will then simply not use the zerocoin/mixing functions.  


parallel blockchains would make it possible

My point of view is that nxtcash should not be implemented in the nxt core, but as an optional layer over the core. Using Parallel block chain for nxtcash is a very good idea.

Nxt official forum at: https://nxtforum.org/
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March 08, 2014, 09:06:25 PM
 #42176

 

[/quote]
Could you point me to that solution of yours?
[/quote]

I was talking about the use of prepaid credit cards for use in point of purchase transactions as a way of possibly bypassing having to figure out how to make instant transactions possible through the network.
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March 08, 2014, 09:09:59 PM
 #42177

Ripple (which puts these selling points first as well) has been around longer than Bitcoin or at least nearly as long I believe.

Huh

Fact check: Ripple was founded in 2004 by Ryan Fugger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)

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Emule
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March 08, 2014, 09:10:22 PM
 #42178

Nxt Decentralized Internet video - alfa version:
http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ

(created between 20 Feb-8 March)

I would be very grateful for any comments and suggestions. It still needs some time, but it already can be commented

Based on the paper:
http://justpaste.it/decentralized-internet
(created between 12-18 Feb)

And good night, its almost 6 AM here Cheesy

CRAP! and copyright violation! == theft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

when u finally going to do something usefull for this community?
wesleyh
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March 08, 2014, 09:12:58 PM
 #42179

New version of NxtWallet for Mac available:

http://nxtra.org/mac/NxtWallet.zip

Shows blockchain download progress. Tomorrow or monday I will release the same version for windows.

It connects to TestNet at first start. you can switch to Main Net via tools menu. I suggest you test everything out in TestNet first as there may be bugs. We need someone to do an audit of the web code.

If you want the old interface, simply go to http://localhost:7875 (main net) in the browser when the app is running.

My Nxt id is : 8189784314684138350 - thanks for any donations.


chanc3r
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March 08, 2014, 09:13:19 PM
 #42180

Thanks  Smiley

You're welcome.

(I'm killing me)

and me....  Grin

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