NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Come-from-Beyond]

Cfb

I claim the 100,000 NXT bounty for finding the fatal flaw in NXT.

nodecoin!

yes, nodecoin will kill NXT. As soon as nodecoin comes out there will be no need for NXT. Lets ignore the fact that without NXT, nodecoin cannot exist, but the consensus is that nodecoin is a NXT killer. It doesnt exist outside of NXT, but it kills NXT.

Quite magical actually.

James

U injected the flaw, so it's u who ought to pay. Muahahaha.

[grandpa_seth]

Also, notice that if trying to boost the NXT network via nodecoin purchases doesnt work, what have we lost? Without nodecoin, there wouldnt even be that option. nodecoin price fluctuations do not impact NXT. nodecoin is not NXT. nodecoin is a NXT asset. If NXT relies on nodecoin for all of its network infrastructure incentive and nodecoin fails, then where are we? I think we would be where we are now, without nodecoin.

James

I'll tell you what we've lost. When AE goes live we will get many new nxters. They will buy Nxt, open their client to forge, and receive nodecoins without even having heard of them.
Now all newbies associate Nxt with nodecoins and maybe think they are related or the same. If nodecoins fail, you now got a whole bunch of new nxters used to getting these
nodecoins and you take them away and tell them go forge for nxt like we used to do. Huh? You want me to forge for a month and get 1 nxt? Are you crazy? Nxt is POS. We must
stick to that from the beginning and not confuse anybody. I think CFB said something like BCNext said POS will not be needed later? Another part of his plan we don't know? Until then
stick to POS. I was against pools but pools are better than nodecoin I think.

[grandpa_seth]

I did not like the fact I was making pimples and cancer, so I deleted all the code. Its all gone

James

You're joking...  right?   

of course he is 

[farl4web]

I have tested your client on my iPhone 5 and iPad 4 with iOS 7.1. Here are some things I discovered:

The logo and the spinningwheel are not retina. (not that important, but retina just looks great!)

iPad landscape

Almost everything looks good, but in the Asset Exchange the two collums Buy and Sell give a problem to the wordt "Ammount".




iPad portrait

The links on the top are set at a fixed size, so they are to big and are displayed a bit to low over the header.




In some items a second menu is displayed (at Asset Exchange, Messages, etc) this menu is displayed on top of the normal menu on the left side. So the normal menu is not usable anymore. Maybe you can hide the menu and show it on top of everything, such as iNxt is doing in his app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/inxt/id802351888?mt=8

iPhone landscape

The same problem with the links on the top is showing on the iPhone landscape.




I cannot scroll in the menu on the left side. When I scroll the total page, only the right side is scrolling. So I cannot access any menu-items below "Contacts".

Also is the second vertical menu (at Asset Exchange, Messages, etc) covering the menu on the left side. Once I am in the Asset Exchange I cannot go back to other menuitems.

iPhone portrait

The splashscreen can use some more padding between buttons:



When I am a registrered user there isn't much padding around the logo and boxes.



We see the same problems with the menu's as in the iPhone landscape version:



and the transaction id's are to big too in on the iPhone:




Hope this will help you! Good luck!

@Wesley Was it helpfull?

[Mises_77]

Sorry James

[grandpa_seth]

nodecoin price fluctuations do not impact NXT. nodecoin is not NXT. nodecoin is a NXT asset. If NXT relies on nodecoin for all of its network infrastructure incentive and nodecoin fails, then where are we? I think we would be where we are now, without nodecoin.

+1

James, please ignore the trolls and keep up the fine work.  

James is a beast with great ideas and implementation. But our opinions are not trolling. If you like nodecoin please explain to me why its good for Nxt. I'd love to change my mind if it is.

[pandaisftw]

A blast from the past, concerning nodecoins:

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?

weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.

Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.

IMO, most miners are not innovators. Sure, they can do a lot of work looking up the most profitable coin to mine, but they aren't actually contributing anything to the community (besides securing the network, which PoS does for pennies). The only innovators in the mining community I can think of are ASIC manufacturers, they actually are making new technology - which, unfortunately, is making PoW gravitate towards centralization.

I'm not against "useful" mining such as NodeCoin suggested earlier, processing scripts, etc. because it does something that is actually useful. PoW (in the sense of keeping the network secure) is an antiquity.

So to respond to Jame's question, we should make PoW coins on top of NXT that provide useful services. For example, in-line with BCNext's vision, implementing a coin with mining inflation (eventual target ~1%) for everyday use is useful. NodeCoin could be used to reward node operators, and entitle them to buy special node services, thus being valuable (@ZeroTheGreat, this is pretty much proof-of-node). ScriptCoin to run Scripts, etc. So many possibilities!

Seems like we're having the same discussion again. Nodecoin by itself has no value, just like Bitcoin, NXT, cars, etc. They have value because they can be used for something - you see new mine and pump coins everyday, but the reason they are successful in getting pumped is because there are the gullible who actually believe these copy-cat-coins will do something.

Here in NXTland, I'd like to think we're all a little more sophisticated, thus that's why we're having this discussion.

The problem:

Nodecoin obviously has to have a "purpose" other than just being rewarded to miners. Who is going to buy them if there is no use? No one.

A possible solution:

Expanding on the ideas I presented in my quote (and James') is that nodecoins will buy special privileges from nodes participated in the nodecoin network. I don't really have any ideas of what people could possibly need (DDOS protection?) but I'm sure there is something.

By the way, I don't think nodecoin will make NXT worthless. Nodecoin transactions require NXT to function.

Pandaisftw

[pandaisftw]

@wesleyh: Did you see my PM's regarding asset aliases and categorizing? Obviously, it's not a super-priority right now, but would be good to have it integrated into your client before AE is released on mainnet.

yes i will reply to you tomorrow, sorry for the delay!

Thanks Keep up the good work!

[LemonAndFries]

I don't even think it was supposed to be this big, for all we know this actually might have started as a get rich quick scam by BCNext.

R u sure that u r not Emule?

This is just to clarify, I AM NOT EMULE.

I am someone who had hopes for NXT as the crypto 2.0, but not anymore.

I invested a large amount of fiat into it, I want NXT to be succesful but seeing how this community actually works has turned me off.

What about you? Are you sure you're not BCNext posing under a different surname?

If you'd like heres a little about me:

At 15 I taught myself HTML (yes I can code whole website systems just with notepad), Flash 5 (I'm old), some Python, Java, and even a bit of C++.
I taught myself fine arts and have become a master artist since then.
I have also been an electrician, electronics engineer (not quite good), was majoring in electrical engineering but recently my studies have refocused to Biology, Biotechnology, and Physics.

So no, I am not emule. I am just a well rounded human being that wants the current economic structure to be reset to something that will help all of humanity and not just the chosen few.
NXT seemed like a good idea up until now that the community can't even get together to decide on something as simple as "Is it a coin or an exchange or a potato or a banana?"

Good day

Hm... for someone so "educated", you either cannot see the bigger picture, or are deliberately trying to ignore it. When you first came into this thread, did you even read the first post? Because that should have signified that NXT is not simply a "coin". It can be used as one, but it also can provide many other decentralized services. The Asset Exchange has already encouraged a ton of economic activity (look at the IPOs, nodecoin, etc.) despite not even being released yet.

"Descendant of Bitcoin"

enough said.

[jl777]

Also, notice that if trying to boost the NXT network via nodecoin purchases doesnt work, what have we lost? Without nodecoin, there wouldnt even be that option. nodecoin price fluctuations do not impact NXT. nodecoin is not NXT. nodecoin is a NXT asset. If NXT relies on nodecoin for all of its network infrastructure incentive and nodecoin fails, then where are we? I think we would be where we are now, without nodecoin.

James

I'll tell you what we've lost. When AE goes live we will get many new nxters. They will buy Nxt, open their client to forge, and receive nodecoins without even having heard of them.
Now all newbies associate Nxt with nodecoins and maybe think they are related or the same. If nodecoins fail, you now got a whole bunch of new nxters used to getting these
nodecoins and you take them away and tell them go forge for nxt like we used to do. Huh? You want me to forge for a month and get 1 nxt? Are you crazy? Nxt is POS. We must
stick to that from the beginning and not confuse anybody. I think CFB said something like BCNext said POS will not be needed later? Another part of his plan we don't know? Until then
stick to POS. I was against pools but pools are better than nodecoin I think.

Assuming i can find backups of the source code I deleted and the magical cancerous pimpled nodecoin does come back. How exactly can it fail? If my servers get destroyed, somebody else can always make a new nodecoin as the source code of the current version is already out there.

Maybe we need to setup a NXT asset issuance committee? This way before anybody can issue a NXT asset, we make sure we get their home address, blood type, hell, we need to insist on DNA samples. Then we have to have a bunch of people who are psychics and can properly predict all futures assess whether a new asset type will be good or bad for NXT. After we form a committee to decide how to tell if something is good or bad for NXT.

Then and only after a thoroughly painful ordeal will we allow anybody to issue NXT assets.

Would that satisfy you?

James

[grandpa_seth]

Nodecoins will never make Nxt worthless. Its not a horrible idea by any stretch. But if it was meant to help solve the unfair forging whiners then I say its better not to have it.
Stick to POS forging for Nxts.

[jl777]

Cfb

I claim the 100,000 NXT bounty for finding the fatal flaw in NXT.

nodecoin!

yes, nodecoin will kill NXT. As soon as nodecoin comes out there will be no need for NXT. Lets ignore the fact that without NXT, nodecoin cannot exist, but the consensus is that nodecoin is a NXT killer. It doesnt exist outside of NXT, but it kills NXT.

Quite magical actually.

James

U injected the flaw, so it's u who ought to pay. Muahahaha.

OK, thanks!
Hey, I just paid myself 100000 NXT. Wow thanks jl777!!

[msin]

Nodecoins are a cancer - time will tell if I am right or wrong...

Cancer? Why? Nxt is meant to have coins built on top of it.

There are coins made by using the AM feature (see CfB's abandoned effort), parallel chain coins and nodecoin.
Nodecoin is parasitic IMO..

Disagree, I think implementing a mine-able coins in AE is a great innovation, regardless of where nodecoin goes, it's good work by James!  I think you are being a little dramatic with the cancer/parasitic remarks.

[jl777]

Sorry James

That's right, this was your idea! Hey, everybody you can blame Mises_77

[Tobo]

Crypto Review Completed, please read.  Thanks to Jesse James for completing with thorough review and BloodyRookie for reference.

From Jesse James:

"I spent some quality time reviewing the core crypto NXT relies on.  As part of my review I re-implemented the relevant algorithms https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521126 using a different approach in a different language to make sure I understood everything deeply.  Although the implementation NXT uses doesn't follow certain algorithm specifications to the letter, the deviations noted (motivated by simplicity and/or performance) seemed reasonable and in general nothing stuck out as a red flag.  There was one bug in the signature generation function (that NXT is aware of and currently working around) for which I've provided a patch (or more precisely tweaked BloodyRookie's proposed patch).  It should be should be safe for devs to incorporate this patch at their convenience.

Review: https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521116

Code: https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521126 "

Thank you Doctor evil/Jesse James so much.

+1 And thank msin as well!

[grandpa_seth]

James, you are being emotional again. You probably worked harder than anybody in the last month so calm a little. Nodecoin is your decision obviously. Nobody can stop you
from issuing it. It may work out very well. I can only give YOU my opinion as well as others give theirs. I only want you to hear what others are saying and think about it.
If you still believe in nodecoin then you know what to do and prove us wrong. I only care what's best for Nxt.

[pandaisftw]

I don't even think it was supposed to be this big, for all we know this actually might have started as a get rich quick scam by BCNext.

R u sure that u r not Emule?

This is just to clarify, I AM NOT EMULE.

I am someone who had hopes for NXT as the crypto 2.0, but not anymore.

I invested a large amount of fiat into it, I want NXT to be succesful but seeing how this community actually works has turned me off.

What about you? Are you sure you're not BCNext posing under a different surname?

If you'd like heres a little about me:

At 15 I taught myself HTML (yes I can code whole website systems just with notepad), Flash 5 (I'm old), some Python, Java, and even a bit of C++.
I taught myself fine arts and have become a master artist since then.
I have also been an electrician, electronics engineer (not quite good), was majoring in electrical engineering but recently my studies have refocused to Biology, Biotechnology, and Physics.

So no, I am not emule. I am just a well rounded human being that wants the current economic structure to be reset to something that will help all of humanity and not just the chosen few.
NXT seemed like a good idea up until now that the community can't even get together to decide on something as simple as "Is it a coin or an exchange or a potato or a banana?"

Good day

Hm... for someone so "educated", you either cannot see the bigger picture, or are deliberately trying to ignore it. When you first came into this thread, did you even read the first post? Because that should have signified that NXT is not simply a "coin". It can be used as one, but it also can provide many other decentralized services. The Asset Exchange has already encouraged a ton of economic activity (look at the IPOs, nodecoin, etc.) despite not even being released yet.

"Descendant of Bitcoin"

enough said.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/descendant?s=t

Where does it say "the descendant must be exactly the same as the parent"? A smartphone is a descendant of the phone, but obviously the smartphone does many more things than a normal "dumb"-phone can do.

BTW, investing purely based on a thread's title... is probably a bad idea. Again, the first post in this thread contains a wealth of information concerning what NXT is.

[jl777]

I have an idea!

If nodecoin is so bad for NXT, then I will create the antinodecoin. yes, this coins will reward only the accounts that are never active. Accounts that never help the NXT network. Those are the accounts that will get the antinodecoins

We need something to battle the evil nodecoin and the coin anti-earned by people who never use NXT is clearly the answer.

Just think of all those antinodecoins silently accumulating toward the nodecoin armageddon. Sparks will fly, prices will go up and down. NXT will be vaporized. NXT will reappear. Mass confusion and chaos.

I will also release globalwarming coins and globalcooling coins. If the days temperature is higher than the historical average, everybody gets globalwarming coins. If it is cooler, people get globalcooling coins.

James

[Touque]

James

P.S. If somebody wants to pay me to kill nodecoin all you have to do is pay the server costs.

If all you want is to reward people to run a node or server you can reward them Nxt which was created and set up to do so.

[jl777]

James, you are being emotional again. You probably worked harder than anybody in the last month so calm a little. Nodecoin is your decision obviously. Nobody can stop you
from issuing it. It may work out very well. I can only give YOU my opinion as well as others give theirs. I only want you to hear what others are saying and think about it.
If you still believe in nodecoin then you know what to do and prove us wrong. I only care what's best for Nxt.

If nobody wants nodecoin, there is no point to it