[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[blobafett2]

yes I agree Tante.   my first impression from reading their argument is like Bitcoin has been around for a few years and these guys have become settled and are just arguing like every backroom coder in any corporation trying to 'prove' he is smarter than the other guy.  there's no early-stage passion driving it and making snap decisions and they don't get that being negative and not reaching consensus on decisions hurts them both and seem oblivious to the wider market (they don't seem to feel any urgency of competition). just what it looks like.  I agree to we don't want this for Dash, I hope Evan stays on long term and voices what he thinks is best even with the voting system because founders are always a lot better than people who join later (founders are the entrepreneurs not the employees right).

Yes, hopefully Dash will eventually be pretty much set, where it is automatically scalable and any other functions can be added on via the proposal system.  Luckily, Evan is a known person (or unluckily for him, LOL)  We can always find him and get him to help direct the coin if needed.  He may eventually want to do other things, start other projects, but he's a thoughtful and known person that can always be reached for guidance when needed

yes i'm sure he will.  secret to leadership is delegation anyway and Evan is doing everything right it seems to found the project and create a path to letting it grow through the later stages itself and depend less on his involvement which is what every founder should do.  Seems like Bitcoin left this out of the plan.  I hope Dash gets on with adoption soon, adding lots of services and ways to pay with Dash and buy Dash with fiat for the average user, and all of that should be wired with instant transactions and they should be dirt cheap to do (the default even).  Looking at Dashtalk, you have to click 2 pages away from the homepage to even find merchants and can't see any easy way for merchants to learn how to integrate Dash - this should be on the homepage and need to get Dash out there.  I get Dash is still early stage but it might need to grow up quick if Bitcoin isn't going to start winning on mass adoption because the wider market is going for mobile payments like Apple pay etc and all cryptos are competing with that now, i'm in Dash because I think it's the project that can achieve this, and i feel less like that about Bitcoin after reading the devs argue.  it will be interesting anyway

I know at least one person who is waiting for the proposal system to launch an amazing sounding campaign.  I'm sure there are others, but it's all hush hush until v12 is stabilized and running  We will also have our first professional video out which will be launched as part of the "roll out" campaign with a press release.  September / October will be very exciting for Dash!  Beware everyone!

And if marketing funds can be put to use by that point, it could be even bigger.  Even if it takes until January 2016 to begin a long term marketing plan, nobody else will be able to touch what we'll be able to do.  We can actually start reaching out to the average person!  I'm sorry to sound insubordinate, but we will quickly overcome Bitcoin, we'll be better known, and more functional and begin actually servicing people's needs (not just a place to "invest") And there will be no looking back.  Why?  Because we have funding from the blockchain which will fund marketing like no other project before.  

I always thought that a good strategy to compete with Bitcoin for Dash would be to use Bitcoin's ongoing mass adoption and then just provide a better service (giving bitcoin users a better alternative with instant transactions, better privacy, future features from masternodes etc)

But if Bitcoin isn't going to win on mass adoption fast enough, Dash needs to get out there to have the chance to compete (in the wider market that is moving towards mobile payments from centralized providers).

I think key to that will be making users aware of Dash, then making it accessible to them easily (obtain it from fiat and store/spend from their mobiles), then making sure they can buy the stuff they already buy now but in a more convenient way (for example online with credit cards, later real-world purchases, all payed in Dash instantly with single click), and providing the incentives for them to want to do that (whatever the solution to all that is).  If that's correct then I agree the blockchain funding is really key because it's going to take a big movement to do that, not a few coders arguing in their lunch break and volunteers. looking forward to it anyway

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[tungfa]

Interesting debate going on about blocksize, scaling problems and what Satoshi thought about it,
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f26b7/thank_you_mike_hearn_for_sticking_up_for_us_this/

This just beautifully illustrates toknormal's point on how programmers aren't economists. In German there's a term for people who attempt to be experts beyond their own actual area of expertise and rightfully fail at such. It's "Fachidiot" and literally translates to "subject idiot", meaning you're so focussed on your own subject that you fail to apply it in a meaningful way beyond that scope unable to crossover to other fields.
Maxwell sure is a Fachidiot.

shockingly bad to think these 2 are so clueless to argue and show a rift like that in public when they are on the same team, and scary to think decisions in a $4 billion project are influenced by a couple of coders with no clue how your average investor or finance person would run-a-mile reading that. We can only hope for Bitcoin that someone with some $ brings in some adult supervision ASAP and makes some actual decisions.  

Bring on projects with decentralized governance led by mature and professional developers who also understand how the commercial world works....

It's good that they are passionate, but yes, such arguments should be private, or at least then, semi private with the main players "board of directors" type of thing. If it had to then go to the general user base, it should be hashed out enough to state the two sides of the argument - professionally - and get consensus from the user base.  The thing is, none of those guys trust the user base.  So no wonder they don't seem to like the way we function here.  Not that I would always have open polls in the future, it's already become difficult to get input from non malevolent people, but Evan solicits ideas, and listens to everyone's input.  These guys are very head strong.  So sure what they say is right, and only interested in winning an argument, not exploring options.

yes I agree Tante.   my first impression from reading their argument is like Bitcoin has been around for a few years and these guys have become settled and are just arguing like every backroom coder in any corporation trying to 'prove' he is smarter than the other guy.  there's no early-stage passion driving it and making snap decisions and they don't get that being negative and not reaching consensus on decisions hurts them both and seem oblivious to the wider market (they don't seem to feel any urgency of competition). just what it looks like.  I agree to we don't want this for Dash, I hope Evan stays on long term and voices what he thinks is best even with the voting system because founders are always a lot better than people who join later (founders are the entrepreneurs not the employees right).

Another good article on the subject:

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/23/bitcoins-war-could-threaten-its-survival.html

Me having some Twitter fun:

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/626543562612699137

this shit is CRAZY
and eventually will hurt us all ! (the whole industry)
we still need BTC to "succeed"! we and the market is in NO way ready to let BTC go and adopt (example) us !
i really hope they sort this out soon as that PR is getting worth and worth for all of us (Crypto in general)
 

[TanteStefana2]

Tao, I think Tungfa is talking about the idiots heading Bitcoin, not you

[Minotaur26]

Does anyone know of a way to get Bitcointalk user statistics, like active users per month or new accounts created, total number of users, etc?

[tungfa]

this shit is CRAZY

With the deepest respect, tungfa, sometimes I feel as though you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Bitcoin is the reason we're all here, to be sure, but we all know it's not perfect. Dash has taken the rough mold that Satoshi created and added new and important features based on perceived needs. Dash has come up with a solution for each of these issues, and that does not need to be hidden. My job is to promote Dash, and I'm doing it. Bitcoin IS having a problem right now with direction, but Dash will not because of the DGBB. This is a great thing, and I'm not shy to mention that.

Even if you disagree with the way I conduct myself on Twitter, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about Bitcoin being killed by those such as myself who mention its shortcomings. There are plenty of Bitcoin promoters out there as well, we are in for a rough fight to get to the top.

Don't be afraid to take on Bitcoin. We don't have to "be nice". We have a superior product, my job is to make people see that, and I'm good at it.

Please don't undermine my work. I'm happy to be working on Dash PR (in my own way, you can do it your own way), and look forward to a bright future.

Tao

easy there tao
listen to Tante
you total misunderstood my post !

[Sub-Ether]

Interesting debate going on about blocksize, scaling problems and what Satoshi thought about it,
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3f26b7/thank_you_mike_hearn_for_sticking_up_for_us_this/

This just beautifully illustrates toknormal's point on how programmers aren't economists. In German there's a term for people who attempt to be experts beyond their own actual area of expertise and rightfully fail at such. It's "Fachidiot" and literally translates to "subject idiot", meaning you're so focussed on your own subject that you fail to apply it in a meaningful way beyond that scope unable to crossover to other fields.
Maxwell sure is a Fachidiot.

That's really funny, I didn't know that one.  What's interesting with Evan is that he is not just a programmer (since age 15), but also a Financial analyzer, having created his own analysis of the stock market and selling his data through his website when he was still a kid.  But, although he always seems to be way ahead of everyone, he also asks for opinions, yet has a philosophy that he is following to solidify the foundation of Dash.  So he gathers everyone, listens to all opinions, and finds the right direction to go in.  I've been excited since day one, impressed since at least day 14, at least!

Look at the block attributes chart, almost hitting the 1 meg ceiling and averaging around 800 kbytes, not much headroom left at all,

https://statoshi.info/dashboard/db/blocks

[TanteStefana2]

One quote from that article:
"But there are reasons for limiting the size of a block. For one, it provides security for the system by constraining available space, and therefore making it costly to maliciously flood the network with spam."

Which doesn't seem to be true because that recent attack to fill up the available space, and cause a backup on the Bitcoin network was cheap.  And it was cheap because they only had to fill 1megbyt - current use ~ 700k so 300k worth of transactions = very cheap.  What was it?  ~$4500 to give the network 2 days of constipation?  If the limit were at least 8 meg, they'd have had to fill up way more space, costing a lot more money, no?  So how is a smaller block size more secure?

You can always require a minimum service charge, if the problem is that they have the option of sending their transactions free.  Basically, they already do.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

this shit is CRAZY

With the deepest respect, tungfa, sometimes I feel as though you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Bitcoin is the reason we're all here, to be sure, but we all know it's not perfect. Dash has taken the rough mold that Satoshi created and added new and important features based on perceived needs. Dash has come up with a solution for each of these issues, and that does not need to be hidden. My job is to promote Dash, and I'm doing it. Bitcoin IS having a problem right now with direction, but Dash will not because of the DGBB. This is a great thing, and I'm not shy to mention that.

Even if you disagree with the way I conduct myself on Twitter, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about Bitcoin being killed by those such as myself who mention its shortcomings. There are plenty of Bitcoin promoters out there as well, we are in for a rough fight to get to the top.

Don't be afraid to take on Bitcoin. We don't have to "be nice". We have a superior product, my job is to make people see that, and I'm good at it.

Please don't undermine my work. I'm happy to be working on Dash PR (in my own way, you can do it your own way), and look forward to a bright future.

Tao

easy there tao
listen to Tante
you total misunderstood my post !

Oh. In that case, please accept my apologies! I agree 100% on that one.

EDIT: Post deleted.

[Solarminer]

One quote from that article:
"But there are reasons for limiting the size of a block. For one, it provides security for the system by constraining available space, and therefore making it costly to maliciously flood the network with spam."

Which doesn't seem to be true because that recent attack to fill up the available space, and cause a backup on the Bitcoin network was cheap.  And it was cheap because they only had to fill 1megbyt - current use ~ 700k so 300k worth of transactions = very cheap.  What was it?  ~$4500 to give the network 2 days of constipation?  If the limit were at least 8 meg, they'd have had to fill up way more space, costing a lot more money, no?  So how is a smaller block size more secure?

You can always require a minimum service charge, if the problem is that they have the option of sending their transactions free.  Basically, they already do.

Ah, this comment was referring to an anti-DoS measure (monster blocks) not necessarily just spam transactions.  See link below.  In reality, if we are very close to the block limit, transaction fees will go up making a spam attack more expensive.
http://bitcoin-development.narkive.com/jsfcbpPz/why-satoshi-s-temporary-anti-spam-measure-isn-t-temporary#post22

Also in this discussion, some are discussing the cost of transactions and don't seem to be concerned about how much a bitcoin transaction will cost because it has advantages over paypal or other methods.  If this is what they are thinking and the block size stays the same, it will be too expensive to use Bitcoin, except for large value transactions.  There are also comments about lower fee, lower friction blockchains taking bitcoin's market share...and that's why I am here.

Sub-Ether, thanks for the charts.  If you zoom out, it looks like all the block filling increased on the 28th.

[RenegadeMan]

this shit is CRAZY

With the deepest respect, tungfa, sometimes I feel as though you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Bitcoin is the reason we're all here, to be sure, but we all know it's not perfect. Dash has taken the rough mold that Satoshi created and added new and important features based on perceived needs. Dash has come up with a solution for each of these issues, and that does not need to be hidden. My job is to promote Dash, and I'm doing it. Bitcoin IS having a problem right now with direction, but Dash will not because of the DGBB. This is a great thing, and I'm not shy to mention that.

Even if you disagree with the way I conduct myself on Twitter, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about Bitcoin being killed by those such as myself who mention its shortcomings. There are plenty of Bitcoin promoters out there as well, we are in for a rough fight to get to the top.

Don't be afraid to take on Bitcoin. We don't have to "be nice". We have a superior product, my job is to make people see that, and I'm good at it.

Please don't undermine my work. I'm happy to be working on Dash PR (in my own way, you can do it your own way), and look forward to a bright future.

Tao

Whoa there Tao! I think you're getting a little carried away with false perceptions that your Twitter work's being unfairly criticized. As Tante's already pointed out, tungfa's making a comment on the ongoing ad nauseum debate around changes to Bitcoin's protocol. What you do to promote Dash is tremendous and you're at it consistently which I and many others really appreciate.

But just to this point:

Don't be afraid to take on Bitcoin. We don't have to "be nice". We have a superior product, my job is to make people see that, and I'm good at it.

I think we need to be very careful about getting too carried away with the "Dash is going to replace Bitcoin" mantra (not that you've said this in your post just now, but it's a theme many of us are often putting forward). The fact is that if Bitcoin were to suffer some sort of major protocol failure or network corruption that forked everything so badly it couldn't be recovered within a short time, it's going to be all over for Dash too. We are absolutely and completely tied to Bitcoin technically, philosophically, emotionally and (in the public's mind) brand-wise because we're that "crypto thingy nerds use" so we need to support Bitcoin to help ensure the mother ship continues on without a massive loss of trust occurring.

Yes Dash is superior in many ways but (and this is not really entirely an appropriate analogy but the best I can think of at the moment) so was Apple's line of PCs at the time Windows was first released, yet the rise of the Windows based home PC probably facilitated far more sales of Apple PCs in the long run because of mass adoption of PCs in general opened up the market a hundred fold on what it was in the early stages. If Windows hadn't become ubiquitous like it did, the entire PC market may have been tiny and then the hand-held device market may not have developed as rapidly either (hard to imagine but the late 70s and all of the 80s set the scene for what we have today and Bitcoin is going to play a similar role in making Dash take off).

So I think we should always speak positively about Bitcoin and we should be "nice" (but that doesn't mean we can't constructively criticize). We want to be supporters of those people within Bitcoin who are thinking ahead and considering it on more levels than just the technical. That will get us far more kudos and respect than suggestions Bitcoin is lame and to shortly be replaced by Dash (and again I'm acknowledging this isn't what you're saying in your posting). If Bitcoin becomes far more mainstream we will become way way bigger and far more successful too; I'm sure of it.

Edit: Just saw your follow-up response to tungfa but have left my post as is.

[alex-ru]

Does anyone know of a way to get Bitcointalk user statistics, like active users per month or new accounts created, total number of users, etc?

Most active (posts) users: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=mlist;sort=posts;start=0
Oldest (date of registration) users: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=mlist;sort=registered;start=0
...and so on - you can click on menu tab and get relative sorting.

To create common BTC report - some script has to collect and compute this source data.

[Rux]

There you go Tao



edit: this could be official DASH chill pill

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

this shit is CRAZY

With the deepest respect, tungfa, sometimes I feel as though you need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Bitcoin is the reason we're all here, to be sure, but we all know it's not perfect. Dash has taken the rough mold that Satoshi created and added new and important features based on perceived needs. Dash has come up with a solution for each of these issues, and that does not need to be hidden. My job is to promote Dash, and I'm doing it. Bitcoin IS having a problem right now with direction, but Dash will not because of the DGBB. This is a great thing, and I'm not shy to mention that.

Even if you disagree with the way I conduct myself on Twitter, I'm sure that you don't need to worry about Bitcoin being killed by those such as myself who mention its shortcomings. There are plenty of Bitcoin promoters out there as well, we are in for a rough fight to get to the top.

Don't be afraid to take on Bitcoin. We don't have to "be nice". We have a superior product, my job is to make people see that, and I'm good at it.

Please don't undermine my work. I'm happy to be working on Dash PR (in my own way, you can do it your own way), and look forward to a bright future.

Tao

easy there tao
listen to Tante
you total misunderstood my post !

Tao needs one of those -chill pills-

again...

There you go Tao



edit: this could be official DASH chill pill

Aww...thanks guys! Taken. I feel better already...

[tungfa]

There you go Tao



edit: this could be official DASH chill pill

can i have 1 too please !

Edit:
make that 2
(good they are capsules, so much easier to ....  )

[dazbarlby]

I think every product/service that's helped by DASH should be asked to display something like the image below on its website or product with a link back to dashpay.io.

[cryptothreads]

I think every product/service that's helped by DASH should be asked to display something like the image below on its website or product with a link back to dashpay.io.

When I open my shop up for DASH I'll add this. Good idea btw

[superplus]

imo btc about to break out from TA the next weeks..
(late august to september)

[eduffield]

https://youtu.be/YozN5VX1VU4  100 IX transactions in 10 seconds using my new "sendtoaddressix" command  

[splawik21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1CX6r6msk  100 IX transactions in 10 seconds using my new "sendtoaddressix" command  

I could swear now but I wont, respect Evan and the whole team!

[Rux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e1CX6r6msk  100 IX transactions in 10 seconds using my new "sendtoaddressix" command  

BRAVO !!!!

we needed this command

this is good news for exchanges and for everyone else