[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[alex-ru]

One more brilliant article by Andreas M. Antonopoulos

"Money Will Be Digital — But Will It Be Free?"

I feel that he mean "Dash" while was writing about "Bitcoin".  

[1714493701]

1714493701

[1714493701]

1714493701

[Rux]

they all know about our technology, but so many nerfs from BTC dev's make them think twice because they are like sheeps... and thats sad!

isnt this ironic, DASH comunity does not hate BTC... and BTC and rest of crypto comunity hates DASH

what does that say to you?

[tungfa]

I think i can....i think i can...getting there

Total Masternodes: 2933 = 2922 actives + 11 inactives [2681 unique IPs] (Last refresh: Wed Jul 29 2015 19:04:43)
Estimated daily payout for an active node (blocks with MN payments last 24h: 100%): 0.5149 DASH/day (Last Refreshed: Wed Jul 29 2015 19:05:14)

and the price is still  < 0.02.  
dash is completely under the radar.

edit: is there a map that shows new masternode locations?
may be we have some new chinese friends.

http://www.dashnodes.com/index/masternodes_map
the maps show MN hosting
but that does not mean they are in the owners locations ! (i am hosting mine all over europe but am not there)

chinese
i doubt it
as far as i know
there are still very few MN's out of china

[TheDasher]

gmaxwell seems to be another ''wanna be guru the best of them all'' who things that his name is ''the brand''. Darksend is so much better in every way than his coinjoin.
I'm tired of those pricks  

Dark send is useless you fool.  It takes a very long time to mix coins, it's not practical at all.

[CODERsp]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

[BrainShutdown]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

Low risk. Are you trying to say that he will never sell and pay for the expenses with the "other money"?

[BoscoMurray]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

Sounds like the same issue as POS. Eventually, centralization is inevitable?

Is their a limit to the number of MN allowed on the network?

[Otoh]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

I have 642 MN under my control, with approx 30 of those that I manage for other people, this number has been constant for quite a while now as others are buying all the rewards that I care to spare atm to set up their own masternodes mostly, though one guy who buys regularly actively trades the coins I see.

Edit, thanks alex-ru, yep the % of the total number of MN that I hold has been decreasing recently, I'm pretty happy with my present number.

[alex-ru]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

Centralization - it is about percentage, not about absolute numbers.

"Theoretical owner" of 1000 MNs gets the same percentage (reward) as all other NMs operators - so he has about no "extra possibility" to increase percentage of his MNs (with reward) in future.
Of course people who can risk with more money (invest in more MNs) will have more power during voting - it is normal.

[CODERsp]

I mean, that POS centralization is more difficult. First of all, it's expenses: electricily and hardware, that becomes broken and which you can't convert to money without losses, so you really need to withdraw profits. And the second, it's electricity. It's very difficult to accumulate electric power in one hands, because of techinical problems. Could you imagine, that one miner (not pool) owns 20% of hashing power in the world like otoh? At least, he will need to have it's own atomic electric station, and maybe not one. And what about masternodes? There are no expenses to own masternode, except hosting, which you can optimize strongly. You invested money, you withdrawn money. That's all. But if you will recapitalize masternodes, you will own new masternodes much more faster, than other holders and in perspective your share of total masternode profit will grow in %. For example, Otoh owns 642 MNs and other 642 owners have one MN each. With time, Otoh will enter new masternodes only from profit and grow his percentage and other owners will wait a lot, while their profit reach 1000 DASH. And as more time, more MNs and % will have Otoh and 1000 DASH goal for others will be more futher. With mining it's more difficult, because your hardware may obsolete and you can't simply grow your electric power, because it has limits. With MNs you have deal only with money. In future, somebody with most masternodes can accumulate most new generated money without additional investments.

[kointrend]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

I have 642 MN under my control, with approx 30 of those that I manage for other people, this number has been constant for quite a while now as others are buying all the rewards that I care to spare atm to set up their own masternodes mostly, though one guy who buys regularly actively trades the coins I see.

Thanks man, to let we know this sensible info. ...and for the distribution that you are working for.

[alex-ru]

But if you will recapitalize masternodes, you will own new masternodes much more faster, than other holders and in perspective your share of total masternode profit will grow in %.

Not at all - every Dash holder can use services like https://dashtalk.org/threads/splawik-s-super-shares-service.3195/
before could setup their own MN - so have same advantages (%) as big holders.

[CODERsp]

But if you will recapitalize masternodes, you will own new masternodes much more faster, than other holders and in perspective your share of total masternode profit will grow in %.

Not at all - every Dash holder can use services like https://dashtalk.org/threads/splawik-s-super-shares-service.3195/
before could setup their own MN - so have same advantages (%) as big holders.

It's third-party and takes ~20%. To protect from what I'm telling, everybody, including operators with 1000 DASH may use such service and trust it. I don't think, it's possible.

[oblox]

I mean, that POS centralization is more difficult. First of all, it's expenses: electricily and hardware, that becomes broken and which you can't convert to money without losses, so you really need to withdraw profits. And the second, it's electricity. It's very difficult to accumulate electric power in one hands, because of techinical problems. Could you imagine, that one miner (not pool) owns 20% of hashing power in the world like otoh? At least, he will need to have it's own atomic electric station, and maybe not one. And what about masternodes? There are no expenses to own masternode, except hosting, which you can optimize strongly. You invested money, you withdrawn money. That's all. But if you will recapitalize masternodes, you will own new masternodes much more faster, than other holders and in perspective your share of total masternode profit will grow in %. For example, Otoh owns 642 MNs and other 642 owners have one MN each. With time, Otoh will enter new masternodes only from profit and grow his percentage and other owners will wait a lot, while their profit reach 1000 DASH. And as more time, more MNs and % will have Otoh and 1000 DASH goal for others will be more futher. With mining it's more difficult, because your hardware may obsolete and you can't simply grow your electric power, because it has limits. With MNs you have deal only with money. In future, somebody with most masternodes can accumulate most new generated money without additional investments.

This is always going to be the case with anything having an open, free, market. Otoh bought his coins on the market like anyone else can. Understandably, people with more resources have a clear advantage, no different than any other thing in life. If people weren't willing to sell their coins cheap, Otoh's position wouldn't have grown as large as it is presently. Further, it's a two way street--there isn't the liquidity for him to just dump all those coins on the market if he wanted out. Yes, he's able to compound his coins faster than people with smaller holdings--there is no way around it. He also took a risk with his capital to get involved. You bitching about something that happens all the time in life is silly.

[AzzAz]

I mean, that POS centralization is more difficult. First of all, it's expenses: electricily and hardware, that becomes broken and which you can't convert to money without losses, so you really need to withdraw profits. And the second, it's electricity. It's very difficult to accumulate electric power in one hands, because of techinical problems. Could you imagine, that one miner (not pool) owns 20% of hashing power in the world like otoh? At least, he will need to have it's own atomic electric station, and maybe not one. And what about masternodes? There are no expenses to own masternode, except hosting, which you can optimize strongly. You invested money, you withdrawn money. That's all. But if you will recapitalize masternodes, you will own new masternodes much more faster, than other holders and in perspective your share of total masternode profit will grow in %. For example, Otoh owns 642 MNs and other 642 owners have one MN each. With time, Otoh will enter new masternodes only from profit and grow his percentage and other owners will wait a lot, while their profit reach 1000 DASH. And as more time, more MNs and % will have Otoh and 1000 DASH goal for others will be more futher. With mining it's more difficult, because your hardware may obsolete and you can't simply grow your electric power, because it has limits. With MNs you have deal only with money. In future, somebody with most masternodes can accumulate most new generated money without additional investments.

You just forgot : more MNs - less the reward. And look at LTC  and that chinese miner ... centralisation? DASH is much better there. And electricity - what about all those with free electricity?
  so it is not black and white friend...

[BoscoMurray]

I mean, that POS centralization is more difficult. First of all, it's expenses: electricily and hardware, that becomes broken and which you can't convert to money without losses, so you really need to withdraw profits. And the second, it's electricity. It's very difficult to accumulate electric power in one hands, because of techinical problems. Could you imagine, that one miner (not pool) owns 20% of hashing power in the world like otoh? At least, he will need to have it's own atomic electric station, and maybe not one. And what about masternodes? There are no expenses to own masternode, except hosting, which you can optimize strongly. You invested money, you withdrawn money. That's all. But if you will recapitalize masternodes, you will own new masternodes much more faster, than other holders and in perspective your share of total masternode profit will grow in %. For example, Otoh owns 642 MNs and other 642 owners have one MN each. With time, Otoh will enter new masternodes only from profit and grow his percentage and other owners will wait a lot, while their profit reach 1000 DASH. And as more time, more MNs and % will have Otoh and 1000 DASH goal for others will be more futher. With mining it's more difficult, because your hardware may obsolete and you can't simply grow your electric power, because it has limits. With MNs you have deal only with money. In future, somebody with most masternodes can accumulate most new generated money without additional investments.

You just forgot : more MNs - less the reward. And look at LTC  and that chinese miner ... centralisation? DASH is much better there. And electricity - what about all those with free electricity?
  so it is not black and white friend...

Yes, but less the reward for everyone, no?

The point is, someone with 1000 MN can increase their MN numbers at an ever increasing rate over those with less MN.

Sounds similar to the POS problem talked about here: http://cointelegraph.com/news/114359/the-inevitable-failure-of-proof-of-stake-blockchains-and-why-a-new-algorithm-is-needed

[gusterdd]

Hm, today if someone (Otoh) owns, for example, 1000 MNs, he gets ~ 516.9 DASH per day, so he can produce 1 new MN every 2 days (15 MNs per month). How does community rate this fact in case of DASH decentralization?

Centralization - it is about percentage, not about absolute numbers.

"Theoretical owner" of 1000 MNs gets the same percentage (reward) as all other NMs operators - so he has about no "extra possibility" to increase percentage of his MNs (with reward) in future.
Of course people who can risk with more money (invest in more MNs) will have more power during voting - it is normal.

Big owner of MNs get more reward in MN service payment.
That is no problem. Dev team should have many MNs to power up their coin.
If Dev team have small MNs, they could leave coin like other spam coins.
Dev team and Big Owner of MN are coin's master.
Centralization in owner distribution is inevitable.
Making a MN or buying some dash  is my selectable choice.

I recommanded making a MN in my community, but only one person made two MN.

[toknormal]

Before this conversation gets out of hand, I think we should remind ourselves of one aspect of cryptocurrencies which is almost always forgotten:

Nobody can "own" a blockchain address or even masternode. Cryptocurrencies have had this kind of (potential) centralisation designed out of them.

Crypto is not like a fiat bank account which is no more than a recorded history of a specific legal entity's assets and transactions. If you happen to hold a private key to a blockchain address, there isn't anything you can do except move coins in or out of that address in full public view. You are not moving "your funds" in any formalised sense. You are moving part of a universal asset that's under your control. (Thats what gives your private key a market value).

The difference is subtle but the implications are huge - specifically that the blockchain doesn't know or care who 'owns' its addresses, any more than gold cares who's floorboard it's under.

Despite that, many people still think of blockchain addresses as 'people' and transaction histories as "personal financial movements" which is a flawed projection of a fiat bookkeeping model onto a natural monetary model.

Similarly, masternodes are only under anyone's "control" to the extent that a particular node is enabled by a public blockchain address. The network doesn't know or care if one person owns 10, 100 or 1000 nodes because it sees them all as independent and distinct - even if they are all on the same host.

Markets are a different thing. Clearly, large asset holders can push prices up or down more than small ones can, but that's how markets are supposed to work anyway as someone previously pointed out.

[Sub-Ether]

Does anyone want to bet 1 dash with me on what week we will reach 3000 masternodes for fun?
I will let you choose a particular (7 day) week first then I will choose another week slot.
(suggest that the weeks can overlap but if result is on the same day as both choose then no payouts are made)

[gusterdd]

Does anyone want to bet 1 dash with me on what week we will reach 3000 masternodes for fun?
I will let you choose a particular (7 day) week first then I will choose another week slot.
(suggest that the weeks can overlap but if result is on the same day as both choose then no payouts are made)

look competition in setting a MN.
It is very interesting watching the MN number changing.
I think under 20 days  to reach 3000 MNs.