Bitcoin Forum
April 30, 2024, 04:35:57 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 3755 3756 3757 3758 3759 3760 3761 3762 3763 3764 3765 3766 3767 3768 3769 3770 3771 3772 3773 3774 3775 3776 3777 3778 3779 3780 3781 3782 3783 3784 3785 3786 3787 3788 3789 3790 3791 3792 3793 3794 3795 3796 3797 3798 3799 3800 3801 3802 3803 3804 [3805] 3806 3807 3808 3809 3810 3811 3812 3813 3814 3815 3816 3817 3818 3819 3820 3821 3822 3823 3824 3825 3826 3827 3828 3829 3830 3831 3832 3833 3834 3835 3836 3837 3838 3839 3840 3841 3842 3843 3844 3845 3846 3847 3848 3849 3850 3851 3852 3853 3854 3855 ... 7012 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722498 times)
TanteStefana2
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 12:35:06 AM
 #76081


If any of you folks require ammunition to combat tulip analogies floating around at the moment, I just posted some here.

This ought to be put up on TaoOfSaatochi's list of articles.  Very well expressed Cheesy

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
1714494957
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714494957

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714494957
Reply with quote  #2

1714494957
Report to moderator
1714494957
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714494957

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714494957
Reply with quote  #2

1714494957
Report to moderator
1714494957
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714494957

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714494957
Reply with quote  #2

1714494957
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
Propulsion
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 500


The Buck Stops Here.


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 12:46:59 AM
 #76082


If any of you folks require ammunition to combat tulip analogies floating around at the moment, I just posted some here.

toknormal
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 01:24:48 AM
 #76083


Voting required over here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915569.0
splawik21
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1005


DASH is the future of crypto payments!


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 01:29:05 AM
 #76084


If any of you folks require ammunition to combat tulip analogies floating around at the moment, I just posted some here.


saying that we should see btc even @ 40-50$ than...to come back after a month or two to 150$...hmmm nice story with this tulipomania, didn`t know it before.

BE SMART, USE DASH ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
toknormal
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 01:39:06 AM
 #76085


The 1-hour Bitcoin / USD MACD just crossed to the upside triggering some major panic buying.

Tonight's pitched battle has just commenced again with people panicking in both directions.


toknormal
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 02:23:20 AM
 #76086

There is majourly jittery trading.

This 5-minute MACD was supposed to dip below into a more substabtial negative cycle but it refused.

Instead, panic buying has recomenced and we're now at 195....200....the panic from desperate short covering is palbable. People in a rapid turnaround caught on the wrong side of the trend, scared sh*tless they're giong to be kicked out of the market and left behind as it rattles back up.

This is the danger of trading large amounts at these levels. Someone who dumped 90 BTC at the low there of 162 (and there were plenty - just look at the volume) and had to buy back in at 190 in a panic just lost themselves 13 BTC in the space of a few minutes.




Lebubar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000



View Profile
January 15, 2015, 02:34:57 AM
 #76087

Bitcoinwisdom is on fire (BTC/USD) !
turk-fx
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 216
Merit: 100


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 02:37:33 AM
 #76088

I think blood bath is over 15min, 30min, 1hour and 2hours charts turned to positive. 4 hour chart is almost there. Panic buy started. $250 short term shoot up then will retrace back $225-230 before deciding to go more up , ordown.

DARK Coin - Next innovation in Cypto world
My darkcoin address -> XtvnzfFJ7U7S8PHsEnTGAVKreTPmJWZoMv
toknormal
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 02:38:12 AM
 #76089


Lets look at this on the 4-hour chart.

The bounce is vertical. That's some hard resistance thats been hit.



What's going on there ? I just realised that if we go right back to October 2013 and the start of the big run-up, a whole load of volume went in at these levels. The 160 price level is right in the middle of all that resistance which is possibly why it bounced so hard. This will be hard to get through I think but lets see what happens.


toknormal
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 02:42:22 AM
Last edit: January 15, 2015, 02:54:28 AM by toknormal
 #76090

I think blood bath is over 15min, 30min, 1hour and 2hours charts turned to positive. 4 hour chart is almost there. Panic buy started. $250 short term shoot up then will retrace back $225-230 before deciding to go more up , ordown.

+1 You could be right unless the dumpers are so damn suicidely dogged that they'd come back for another try at those levels.

That must have given them a fright though - at least the ones that are not Citibank with their 3-year stash of coins accumulated precisely for this purpose of hammering the life out of the market at any cost just prior to the ETF getting approved Wink

(Thats always been my haunt from day 1 of this whole project which is why I'm repeating myself so often)

EDIT: Here they come now...what happens to the 5-minute wave this time, does it make it to crossover or bottle out again ?

(I have to go to sleep unfortunately otherwise I'll meet myself in the morning - will leave you folks to it and try not to dream in red and green).

P.S. Just remembered one more thing - these levels have already been flexed twice. The first was even earlier way back in April 2013. I remember it because that was when I bought my first bitcoin so I am part of that volume. The 100-200 range could therefore be twice as hard packed as anything else.
thevictimofuktyranny
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1004


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 02:54:13 AM
 #76091

I WROTE THIS FOR THE FTC THREAD, BUT I THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD FIND THE BITS ON DARKCOIN INTERESTING?

Yeah, the problem with Feathercoin (like Vertcoin use of Lyra2) is that the larger miners have modifications that increases hashpower on their GPU's by up to 93% e.g. hobbyist or small miners get 320khs and big miners get 590khs.

Wolf0 (SGminer developer) has said, he has found modifications that increases hashing by up 93%.

Secondly, there is a bottleneck on R9 290's and R9 290x GPU's that limit hashing output to the same as a 280x. There is clearly a fix for this problem, as well, not shared with the community (hobbyists).

In normal business scenarios: the Feathercoin organisation and other neoscrypt algo coins would buy up these modifications and make them public to all miners to eliminate sell motives in the exchanges and ensure higher prices and stable prices.

However, this has not been done and those mining with the modifications have a huge incentive to dump their FTC on the market crashing the price and then maybe buying them back when these modifications are eventually leaked to everyone?

If, everyone was using these modifications, then there would be no incentive/motive for a small group to mine and dump their FTC, because they would be unlikely to get those FTC back at a cheaper price or gain an "exploitation" on the system/peoples.

This is what has happened on the X11 coins, there were modifications that allowed larger miners to get 50% more hash-power then the official sgminer release, those with these modifications mined and dumped their coins on the exchanges for 4 months, which is why all the X11 coins prices are so low. Now, those X11 kernels and bins have been leaked and X11 coins have reduced sell pressures on them and better price stability.

For example: had those X11 Kernels and Bin been leaked in August 2014, instead of December 2014 Darkcoin's price would still be at 0.01btc instead of it's current 0.006btc. Similarly, FTC price fall from 0.00006BTC to 0.00004BTC can be (evidently proved) blamed on these this modifications being used by a small group of miners to sell down FTC on the exchanges. 

Since, the December 2014 leak of X11 kernels and bins (50% extra hash), Darkcoin has been trading upwards from previous month 0.0058BTC average to 0.006BTC average. On this, it is postulate that FTC price will trend upwards whenever the neoscrypt Kernels and Bins (93% extra hash) gets leaked to the community.

Secondly, this is causing the huge demand for new coins, because spending 0.10btc on 50,000-100,000 new crypto-currency or putting your GPU's on a new coin appears to be the only way to make a profit with mining at the moment, even if the success rate is very low on new coins (only 1 in 25).
strix
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 231
Merit: 100



View Profile
January 15, 2015, 03:01:09 AM
 #76092

@Tokenormal,

I have really been enjoying your posts, updates and analysis of the ongoing "crisis in crypto." I also really enjoyed your report on tulip-mania, and am taking the liberty of quoting from your post in another thread, along with some other thoughts here. Keep up the good work, (and sleep well Wink)


Yeah, but most of us get paid in fiat and have to pay our bills in the same currency. What benefit does changing into a different currency have for this? So maybe for my savings then, but I'd have to have faith in bitcoins as an asset, and as per original post, it's not gold, its a tulip bulb.

Ive been reading your posts throughought this thread and it strikes me that you appear to be quite oblivious of a couple of principles that make money work.

First of all, the term 'intrinsic value' is an ambiguous term. It means different things to different people so is usually subjective and not of much analytical use. From the point of view of analysing money, it's more instructive to split everything in the universe into 2 types of value:

[1] - utility value
[2] - monetary value

i.e. You would acquire something of 'utility value' because you wanted to keep it and make use of it whereas you would acquire something that had 'monetary value' because you could exchange it for something else.

Note one very important thing here - in an ideal world, these two are almost mutually exclusive. i.e. things which are used as money should have little utility value, otherwise they'd go out of circulation. Conversely things of high utility value do not get used as money. In a less than ideal world, something which functions well as money would possibly have some utility value but its monetary value (i.e. its value to the economy as a token of exchange) should be far higher than its utility value.

Now, if we consider gold, we can observe that most of the world's gold supply is locked up in vaults not doing anything. That's because it's of more value as a token of exchange than as a tooth filling/hi-fi connector or whatever.

Gold does not have 'intrinsic value' in the sense that its value is independent of its role in the economy, rather it acquired monetary value because it possessed certain qualities that made it work as a token of exchange - namely that it was uncounterfeitable, fungible, reasonably attractive etc etc. There is absolutely nothing distinguishing gold from any other metal other than those qualities. It is the fact that it was adopted over time in a monetary role that gave it value.

It's a fundamental principle that any 'token' which becomes adopted in such a monetary role will acquire an associated monetary value that is far in excess of its utility value. There are loads of examples of this throughout the commercial world. Take for example a kids funfair that uses plastic tokens to get on the rides. You have to buy one of those plastic tokens at a premium of many hundreds of percent over what it costs in the hardware shop because at the funfair it is operating in a monetary role.

Now consider the case of cryptocurrencies. If we think of an electronic market to be the kids funfair above (i.e. a closed economic platform) then cryptocurrencies are THE only form of asset that can perform a monetary role on that platform. Up until now we have needed counterparties (banks) to 'mimic' electronic money by simply holding a single number which represents an account balance. When someone transfers money from one account to another, there's no sense electronically in which a transfer occurs - all that happens is that the two counterparties holding balances on behalf of their respective clients agree to decrement one balance and increment the other. This requires a monumental amount of co-ordinated and labour intensive infrastructure and at the end of it all there's no audit trail apart from what each bank happens to record in their own books.

This is why cryptocurrencies are bound to become extremely valueable - precisely because they have *very little* utility value but function superbly as an uncounterfeitable monetary token that does not require counterparties.

Intrinsic value has nothing to do with it. Any medium that can function well as a monetary unit without counterparties is of immense value to a commercial economy. Precious metals have already proven that over millenia, only precious metals cannot travel through wires. Their 'monetary role' worked in the physical world, but now that the world's markets have been transported onto electronic platforms there is a gaping need for a monetary asset that is electronic in origin and independent of counterparties.

Bitcoin isn't the first. It's the first one that worked. Man was attempting to do this for about 25 years before bitcoin came on the scene and there were several spectacular failures, but Bitcoin worked - the double spend problem was solved and the blockchain parameters turned out to be reasonably stable.

The tulips could have worked fine in a monetary role but the problem they had was that they couldn't compete with precious metals. They were not ubiquitous enough, not durable enough and not distinct enough so they lost adoption, and with that their associated monetary value.

With Bitcoin, on the other hand, the opposite applies. Precious metals cannot complete with cryptocurrencies, even though that may seem a profound statement to make right at this moment in time. It is however a true statement because the electronic crypto token posses all the monetary properties that precious metals did plus one crucial addition - it originates on and has mobility in an electronic trading network.

The electronic trading platform has only been around for a few decades and new forms of money take time to accrue value which they can only do through adoption into a monetary role (like the plastic funfair tokens).

So if you want to judge whether bitcoin has monetary value or not, don't look at the price, look at the adoption. If that starts declining then you might have a point with the tulip analogy.

Until then all bets are off.


Excellent post TokeN. I would offer one slight clarification that I am sure you would agree with: During the Dutch Tulip craze, tulips were never envisioned as money, nor as proxies for it. They were pretty things that were valued simply for their beauty. Their utility in beautifying property led to a rapid increase in price which attracted investors who had no interest in utility as "property beautifiers," but only in their utility as "portfolio enhancers." The investors created a "tulip market" which attracted more investors, which had the result of quickly pushing tulips out of the price range of humble gardeners and botanical breeders who did not already have them. The financial market killed the flower market and eventually destroyed the wealth of many common folks who came late to the table. (Much as we see happening today in another "market." Cry)

Financiers are constantly trying to "monetize" all sorts of investment vehicles, but this does not mean they conceive of the vehicles as money--simply another means for them to accumulate it. The relative fungible, divisible, and stable supply of precious metals have made them the preferred units of exchange (money) as you have well pointed out. In point of fact, BTC is potentially more fungible, divisible, and stable, than metals ever could be. leading to the intense interest by investors. Less mercenary types may not understand these attributes, and value BTC based on its ease of electronic transfer, and supposed privacy enhancement. Time has revealed that the later is specious, and it remains to be seen if BTC can maintain its dominant position as a crypto-currency, or if the baton will be passed to a more privacy-centric coin such as DRK.

Today investors are being flushed out of crypto-currencies in general, again bringing the price into a range more suitable for common folks. I for one am glad that I can beautify my property with tulips without risking my families financial well being, and look forward to protecting my family's privacy in the same way.

Peace to you all...

Je le hibou, suis ↄash; because while the days are evil good must hurry, lest evil parading as an agent of light restrict its activity.
XnUjqiYV5mvXAWrWUbGFmitPvmWSthxhBi
TaoOfSaatoshi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1014


Dash Nation Founder | CATV Host


View Profile WWW
January 15, 2015, 03:56:35 AM
 #76093


If any of you folks require ammunition to combat tulip analogies floating around at the moment, I just posted some here.

This ought to be put up on TaoOfSaatochi's list of articles.  Very well expressed Cheesy

As you wish, me lady!

New on DarkBlogs:

Comparing Bitcoins to Tulips (A Q/A by toknormal)


Cheers,

Tao

MelodyRowell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 394
Merit: 250


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 04:05:27 AM
 #76094

What is the next development for Darkcoin?
TaoOfSaatoshi
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1014


Dash Nation Founder | CATV Host


View Profile WWW
January 15, 2015, 04:13:08 AM
 #76095

What is the next development for Darkcoin?

We are currently working to incorporate Bitcoin 0.9.4 into Darkcoin's code. We are putting the finishing touches on a radically improved Darksend, then it's off to test InstantX, which when released, will make Darkcoin the only crypto to be on a level with Visa/MasterCard!


Minotaur26
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 05:15:41 AM
 #76096

What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/
Jestah
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 05:18:06 AM
 #76097

What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/

Sounds logical.  That means the bottom is yet to come.
Lebubar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000



View Profile
January 15, 2015, 05:42:31 AM
 #76098

What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/

Sounds logical.  That means the bottom is yet to come.

Well not really they say, at the end, that is still 90,000 unspent btc. So if this is true the end is not here yet...
tungfa
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1023


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 07:22:50 AM
 #76099

I just want to take a moment to Thank my DRK Brothers and Sisters

Each and every one of you have a place in DRK
As much as I want to mention screen/names - I shall refrain

A decentralized community is exactly what we are - spread about the world

(many lines of txt deleted)

WE ARE DRK !!!

(get's a little emotional)

 - - - FADES TO DRK - - -



very cool mangled
I feel exactly the same !

" we are dark "
AzzAz
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1030
Merit: 1006


View Profile
January 15, 2015, 08:00:32 AM
Last edit: January 15, 2015, 08:39:46 AM by AzzAz
 #76100

What do you guys think about this as a possible factor in the crash?

http://www.btcfeed.net/news/butterfly-labs-caused-2015-bitcoin-crash/

"According to the following analysis done by the user rockettilt on r/Bitcoin Butterfly Labs has atleast 94,000 bitcoins still in their possesion."

Yes, that does very bad

And nobody came with idea to refund with coins ...
Pages: « 1 ... 3755 3756 3757 3758 3759 3760 3761 3762 3763 3764 3765 3766 3767 3768 3769 3770 3771 3772 3773 3774 3775 3776 3777 3778 3779 3780 3781 3782 3783 3784 3785 3786 3787 3788 3789 3790 3791 3792 3793 3794 3795 3796 3797 3798 3799 3800 3801 3802 3803 3804 [3805] 3806 3807 3808 3809 3810 3811 3812 3813 3814 3815 3816 3817 3818 3819 3820 3821 3822 3823 3824 3825 3826 3827 3828 3829 3830 3831 3832 3833 3834 3835 3836 3837 3838 3839 3840 3841 3842 3843 3844 3845 3846 3847 3848 3849 3850 3851 3852 3853 3854 3855 ... 7012 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!